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Wheel Sensors - My Experience of drilling out.

Goodluckmonkey said:
Whatever way it goes, I'm not throwing hundreds of pounds at fixing a nanny function that's unnecessary in my cheap old car that I use three times a month.
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freddofrog said:
Here it is on the government website, Published:3 September 2013, Last updated: 3 May 2017

https://www.mot-testing.service.gov.uk/documents/manuals/m4s03000401.htm

ESC = Electronic Stability Control (aka Honda VSA)

If the tester knows it should be there and looks for it or tries to check it, then it's a fail if it's not working or if you've hidden it
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To satisfy both arguments the solution would be to change the switch for a double push version and add a simple circuit up to the dashboard lights.
Press once, lights on, press again, lights off, MOT , pass.
 
Channel Hopper said:
To satisfy both arguments the solution would be to change the switch for a double push version and add a simple circuit up to the dashboard lights.
Press once, lights on, press again, lights off, MOT , pass.
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Haha Like your thinking.
 
Jon_G said:
Or fit a replacement VSA controller?
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Still little change from £200 , no matter where you find one (there is a Lithuanian dealer flogging them for £50 on eBay).
What is the quickest turnaround for fitting a functioning unit from scratch ?
 
Sorry, I've never had to send one off for repair.

But there do seem to be an awful lot of Accords being broken.
 
I had a look at the VSA description in the ESM ages ago, and I remember that the description is fairly comprehensive.

Below are prints of the 3 basic features of the VSA system


1. Traction Control

VSA_TCS_Features.jpg



2. Oversteer/Understeer Reduction

VSA_System_Features.jpg



3. Electronic Brake Distribution between front and rear

VSA_EBD_Features.jpg




If (like me) you prefer to drive with VSA OFF, then TCS and Oversteer/Understeer reduction no longer work, which you can tell when driving in the wet.

But I'm not sure whether EBD will get turned off when you turn off the VSA using the on/off button.


Here is a description of the hydraulics that are involved.

VSA_Control.jpg



What would concern me about driving a car that had a VSA that "isn't working because of a failure code" is that it may not be the same as turning it off using the on/off button.

IMO you just don't know what the thing might do, for example, you might lose the rear brakes one day, depending on the mode of failure.

I'm not saying that anything "out of the ordinary" will ever occur, and I agree that fixing it may not be economically worth it, given the age of the car. What is annoying is that a complex system is added on top of the ABS that you are stuck with, and I can't think of a reliable way of permanently and safely removing/preventing all of the VSA controls.
 
The owners manual does state that -paraphrasing- if the ABS or VSA systems stop working (or indicate a fault) then normal braking is unaffected.

This is sequential, if VSA is faulty but ABS is working then ABS/normal braking is unaffected.

From your diagrams above the VSA relies primarily on the power of an electric motor to do the job of stabilising the vehicle by driving two hydraulic pumps, which only come into play in 'pressure reducing mode'. if the electrical power to the motor is removed then the regulators in the fluid circuit cannot actively affect the braking system via the reducing circuit since the pumps are disabled.
 
Channel Hopper said:
The owners manual does state that -paraphrasing- if the ABS or VSA systems stop working (or indicate a fault) then normal braking is unaffected.

This is sequential, if VSA is faulty but ABS is working then ABS/normal braking is unaffected.

From your diagrams above the VSA relies primarily on the power of an electric motor to do the job of stabilising the vehicle by driving two hydraulic pumps, which only come into play in 'pressure reducing mode'. if the electrical power to the motor is removed then the regulators in the fluid circuit cannot actively affect the braking system via the reducing circuit since the pumps are disabled.
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you ought to write to VOSA and tell them that test centres are failing cars unnecessarily
 
If it is already within legislation then VOSA are not the ones to contact.

Not unlike arguing with the DVLA when they demand £100 from you since the MIT database suggests you have no insurance on the vehicle, when one would normally expect a pull/knock on the door, a few hundred notes and points on one's licence. This is a process I am currently undertaking through the courts.
 
If you want to be that pedantic, VOSA no longer exists, it's just common parlance for the responsible goverment body.

Anyway you sound very busy, so I'll save you the trouble of finding out that the fuse for the VSA pump is also for the ABS pump, so you'll stop both, and then you'll have to sort out a way for the ABS warning light to come on and off with the ignition ;)
 
I'm not that busy to ask if you have ideas on the reason for two fuses in the circuit one 10A less than the other, or if there are others.

I've started a second thread as the wheel sensor issues of earlier no longer count to the cleardown of the remaining lights, in keeping with my pedantry.

What can be gleaned from the work within this thread though is.

The wheel sensors can be a pig to change.
The hub does not need to be removed if one is careful with a blowtorch and some tweezers
The paperclip method does work if one is methodical with a single fault but may not identify root causes when more than one flags up.
one can get to the main ABS connector block without taking the bumper/headlight apart


I hope it is of some use to others
 
Channel Hopper said:
I'm not that busy to ask if you have ideas on the reason for two fuses in the circuit one 10A less than the other, or if there are others.
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which circuit ?
 
The main fusebox contains two fuses, both marked up as VSA on the cover.

In the owners manual F18 is VSA (40A) and F17 is VSA motor (30A).
 
On the pre-facelift model, fuse 17 (30A) powers both pump motors (VSA and ABS), fuse 18 should have 2 in the location, one is the VSA solenoids (40A) the other is the ABS solenoids (20A)

One other thing that might relate to the other flashing light is that the VSA board communicates with the Gauge Control Module on the F-CAN
 
I'm not saying yours is a facelift, but that's the way they're described in the facelift fuse list, but there is a lot of ambiguity in the electrical info in the ESM. Note that both still feed the ABS too.

edit: no difference in circuit diagrams by year, just the fuse lists. Ambiguity .
 
Understood about the VSA/non VSA models, and the exact same fuse positions for both vehicles.

The additional 10A requirement I would put down the the additional requirements of the motor for the stability requirements.

Anyhow, its a moot point as you can see from the other thread.
 
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