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1999 Accord 1.8iVTEC S Auto

R

rednutter

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Location
Harrow, uk
Car
Accord
Hi all,

Owned my accord since 2005 30k miles, now 64k miles - never had any major problems until last week with low idle speed experienced (500rpm). Just poor fuel consuption the only moan - put it down to being an auto.
Was due a cambelt change - so took to an inde garage who changed the cambelt, water pump and tensioners. Also got the plugs, air, pollen and fuel filter changed at the same time. He could not find the reason for low idle speed (I thought he should have checked this 1st before doing the above, but hey)
He could not find the computer socket to plug a computer in apparantly he says that the slot is there but there is no socket (he called Honda who said it should be there) - who to believe?
He increased the idle speed to 1200 rpm ish by adjusting throttle cable (although fluctuating) - says he cleaned the air intake valve - could not find the problem and recommended take to Honda. Noticed engine oil on top of manifold thinking it would burn off.
Took to Honda to check idle speed and engine oil leak. They said they fixed the idle speed problem by adjusting the throttle cable and cleaning throttle - but drove home and within 5 mins noticed my earlier problem of low revving - 500rpm. Honda reported Battery needs changing (had only 3 yrs), Front engine mount broken and oil leak from Rocker cover gasket. (total £210 to replace)

MY QUESTIONS - 1) any thoughts on idle problem - would it be a sensor of some sort or due to battery?
2) Oil leak - I suspect the inde garage fault (there was never a oil leak before cambelt change) - is the engine mount and rocker cover gasket taken off when changing a cambelt thus causing damage to both and now oil leaking.

Thanks

I will try to get the inde garage to solve the oil leak problems and Honda to fix the idle speed scenario - is this right approach and anyone help on my probs?
 
so far you seem to have gone about it the right way.

Firstly i would say, if the idle has been mechaincally adjusted twice, then the ecu must be countering it. For it to do that, it must not be getting right reading from the sensors. Probably the air IACV


have a read of this first.

http://typeaccord.co.uk/forum/topic/2593-setting-base-idle-properly/

if still no help hit me up again. but its pretty simple remember to read the "NOTE" bit
 
I know its been a while since this thread was opened but just incase you still having troubles here you go!

What the independant and honda especially should have checked is your EGR system (Exhaust Gas Recirculation), especially the intake plate underneth the injectors. The plate is mde up of small chanels which push recycled exhaust gasses back in through the intake manifold, Over time, the plate clogs up with soot and carbonised gunk and blocks up the channels causing restriction to the cars intake/breathing.

Had same problem with my old mondeo, cleaned the intake manifold and EGR valve, Problem gone.

Then when I bought my 1.8 6th gen noticed mine was idling low at around 400-450 rpm, had the EGR system cleaned at an independant for £150 and problem was gone! Now it idles at around 600-650 which is where it should be.


Hope this helps if you still need it!
 
As Dave has said it's probably the EGR plate/valve. I'd start with the plate as it's not a difficult job and takes about 45 mins. Just be sure to clean the 4 holes as well as the actual plate.
 
Does anyone have the 6th Gen DIY for this? ;)

I'm sure someone had it on the old THAOC but there was a slight difference in the method as seen in the EricTheCarGuy vid.
 
AndyB1976 said:
Does anyone have the 6th Gen DIY for this? ;)

I'm sure someone had it on the old THAOC but there was a slight difference in the method as seen in the EricTheCarGuy vid.
Click to expand...

Im pretty sure that the main difference in the uk model is where the fuel hose goes in. Its in a different place on the american models and therefore easier access to the plate etc. On uk model, the fuel line gets in the way of one of the plate bolts. I wanted to do it myself but when I saw the fuel line where it was I took it to a garage.
 
BigDave said:
Im pretty sure that the main difference in the uk model is where the fuel hose goes in. Its in a different place on the american models and therefore easier access to the plate etc. On uk model, the fuel line gets in the way of one of the plate bolts. I wanted to do it myself but when I saw the fuel line where it was I took it to a garage.
Click to expand...


Well ain't this a bad time to read this post..... I can't move my fuel rail more than a half inch because that ridiculously positioned metal fuel line is stopping it! There is zero hope of moving anything around now, gutted, got the EGR valve off and cleaned only to get so close to the infamous "plate", i can see it and touch it and that's all lol

I really don't want to stop now and put everything back together, this is my first attempt at ANYTHING like this, and it was all going swell, until I free'd the injectors and moved the fuel rail to come to a full stop at a half inch, just cleared the holding bolts and no more, it's bleeding heartbreaking :)

Might try slide it all to the right a tad see if that will budge, if not looks like that's all folks, my egr plate is staying blocked thanks to a silly change by honda!

Darn it!
 
Well I could not budge it at all, so ended up putting it all back together with only the egr valve cleaned, seems to have made a difference thankfully! Just a shame to get that far into it and not finish the job.
If anyone else has found a workaround to get the fuel rail out of the way please let me know how the heck ya did it lol

Pilot Error said:
Well ain't this a bad time to read this post..... I can't move my fuel rail more than a half inch because that ridiculously positioned metal fuel line is stopping it! There is zero hope of moving anything around now, gutted, got the EGR valve off and cleaned only to get so close to the infamous "plate", i can see it and touch it and that's all lol

I really don't want to stop now and put everything back together, this is my first attempt at ANYTHING like this, and it was all going swell, until I free'd the injectors and moved the fuel rail to come to a full stop at a half inch, just cleared the holding bolts and no more, it's bleeding heartbreaking :)

Might try slide it all to the right a tad see if that will budge, if not looks like that's all folks, my egr plate is staying blocked thanks to a silly change by honda!

Darn it!
Click to expand...
 
Do you have any pictures of it?

Although I have done the job in mine, it's a manual and LHD, so it can be different. Still, with a couple of pictures, I might be able to help B)
 
You only need to move the fuel rail a few mm's so you can undo the screws on the plate and then the plate will slide off.

Does this help?

http://typeaccord.co.uk/forum/topic/1734-cleaning-egr-plate/page__p__20592__hl__egr+plate__fromsearch__1#entry20592
 
Hey guys,
It was so close to coming off but as ya can see in the pics there was no more room for wiggling lolI didn't want to put too much force on the fuel lines, my luck something goes terribly wrong, there really was zero movement from them, not sure where they disappear too in the engine!I may try again sometime as it still needs doing judging by the ***** in the EGR valve.Have to say it was fun tackling a big job like this for my first time in an engine lol

rail pic


rail pic 2
 
Yeah that is on the American version, lucky them can do this job easily with a clear space to move the rail up and out of the way!
I know all it needs is 5 mm and then it may slide right a tad to get it out of the way, dying to get my hands on the plate lol

luvmyaccord said:
You only need to move the fuel rail a few mm's so you can undo the screws on the plate and then the plate will slide off.

Does this help?

http://typeaccord.co...h__1#entry20592
Click to expand...
 
It's not the american version, mine is the same :rolleyes:

Chris, that thing you call "metal fuel line" is not a fuel line, it's either a coolant hose or a vacuum line. That metal tube is connected to the throttle body with some bolts, if you take off those bolts, I think you are then able to shift the tube to take of the fuel rail.

If not, disconnect the "metal fuel line" from the "rubber line" after removing the bolts on the throttle body.

To see the bolts which hold that metal pipe in the throttle body, remove the large intake tube, you should be able to see them B)
 
Take a look at this:
http://www.hondaoriginalparts.com/honda_car_parts_selection_pfk.php?block_01=17S1A01&block_02=E__0200&block_03=6557

The thing we are thlking is part nº2 of that diagraml. As you can see, there is a bracket in that tube, which is bolted to the throttle body. IIRC, it's bolted in one of the 4 bolts/nuts which hold together the throttle body. Just remove that bolt/nut, and you are ok to go ;)

EDIT: Also, take care when removing the injectors if needed, there were known cases of people who broke them while doing this job. I have done this twice in mine, and never had a problem, but better be careful B)
 
Ah cheers skhell, I can see the pipes in that diagram perfect, that looks easy enough on paper lol

That is what I was hoping, to unbolt the pipes to move them out of the way, will try this tomorrow night, may be sore though I just turned 40 today :)
Thanks for the tips about the injectors too, will be gentle lol

When I look at those pics again you are right no fuel would be entering through that part of the engine.

Man this is a great forum!!!

Cheers again, will let you know how I get on mate.
 
Let us know if you managed to reach the EGR plate, and if it fixed your idle problem B)
 
The How to thing that i posted is not an american car it's my ATR.

Hope you manage to get it sorted dude. LEt us know if you do. It's a fairly common thing to do, and there are lots of people on here that have done it. Just a little fiddly.
 
If it hasn't fixed the idle problem then get the injectors tested as I had idle issues (low and lumpy) and tried all the usual throttle body, iacv and egr cleaning but it turned out to be an injector that was duff.
Ultrasonic cleaning did not work so I managed to get a whole throttle and intake ***embly, including injectors from a scrappy for £35 and it has been running fine since.
 
When going for ultrasonic cleaning of the injectors, make sure you ask the people who you are considering getting to do the job to make sure that they are flow matched.
 
Woo hoo! I got to my egr plate today, man was it minging, took a while to give it a good clean, did the open holes too and the gasket, all looks much better, and drives way better.
Was really afraid I would have to leave it be, but a little encouragement from skhell and luvmyaccord, and of course that diagram, it was really easy, I managed to move those pesky air lines out of the way to get access to the plate bolts, thought it would be really stuck on there but it came right off and slid out no probs. Quick test drive to check it still drove and it certainly did, heaps more power and smoother delivery, the original problem I had, which I forgot to mention in my posts, was if too much throttle was applied the engine would splutter slightly until I eased off the power and then gently accelerate, that sadly is still there but it is barely noticeable now. I get the feeling it may be the "CAT"? Is there are anymore things to try before I get the cat looked at, like sensors I could try clean off?
Will take the car for a long spin in the morning see how good she is, have to say I am really loving my accord, now I see what all the fuss is about :)
Many thanks to this forum and it's brill users for your help, I have lost my fear of tinkering with engines lol



Filthy plate


left side


right side


cleaned


worth it!
 
If it was the cat it would be giving a MIL error.
I reckon it is an injector that is dribbling.
As said above when you get them tested they should flow match them too.
Try some decent injector cleaner first like Forte or >>>This<<< one.
Not too expensive and it could sort your problem.
Do you know when the fuel filter was last changed?
 
Not sure who or where to go to get the injectors cleaned etc, will have to ask around, cheers luvmy.

Cheers skhell, it was even dirtier in person lol

Hi TonyB, to be honest I have no idea of any service history on my accord, so I would say it has been a long time since the fuel filter was changed, is that a big job to do? could I do it myself?
Funds are severely low for the next few months so a Honda garage is out of the question lol

Tonight I will have a look at the MAP and MAF sensors see if they need a clean, if I can get them off :)

I'm happy to say there are no EML warnings on the dash, only have the car a month now, she is sweet to drive but that pesky problem is still there when I accelerate too hard and have to back off, so that means NO overtaking, and as an ex biker that is unacceptable lol have to get that sorted, thanks guys will chime in with any updates..
 
About the fuel filter, I replaced mine a couple of months ago and its quite simple. It's located near the left rear wheel, under a metal plate. The bolts can be quite rusty, which was not the case in mine, but better put a bit of WD40 the day before doing the job.

Just be careful when removing the filter, as the system might have some pressure, and you don't want petrol in your eyes.... You can always start the engine, and while running, removing the fuel pump fuse. It will release some pressure from the fuel lines.

I used an after market filter from ADL Blueprint, and so far I had no problems.

About the MAF, our cars doesn't have one, it only has the MAP sensor. I don't know how to clean it, but better be careful with what you use to clean it. If you find out a product which you have 100% sure it will not damage it, let me know B)

About the problem when you accelerate hard, I would look at the ignition system (spark plugs, leads, coil, distributor cap and rotor)
 
Glad you got it sorted Chris. Pedro is 100% correct about what he's posted.

1 - Fuel Filter
2 - Plugs/leads/dizzy condition (cleaning points inside the dizzy is recommended, but BE CAREFUL ;)

Tonys suggestion about cleaner is a good idea too. IIRC, there are companies you send your old injectors to, and they send you some cleaned AND flow matched others. Usually costs about £70 and your car will off the road for a couple of days.

I've found with both my old 2.0 6th gen and my Type R that if you are doing low revs and then dump the throttle they don't like it very much. But i did the EGR plate and valve clean, then FF and then plugs leads and dizzy and all is well.

Hope you manage to get it sorted dude.
 
I've noticed mine cuts out at junctions or say when I take my foot off in a car park and turn the wheel. I've been reading this and was thinking maybe I should strip and clean the EGR plate and hopefully it would solve the problem. However, tonight I also noticed that when it did tickover and I blipped the throttle the lights would brighten. After a quick glance at the earth lead on the battery, I whipped it off scrubbed the terminal, both ends of the lead and the earth point at the opposite end and now it ticks over like a kitten and the headlights are constant. Maybe checking your earth leads at both ends is worth a pop.
 
Adam i'll recommend doing the EGR plate and valve clean to everyone with a 6th gen. Chances are it's never been done in the cars history, so will always make a differnece, either to the response of the car, or the MPG.

Thanks for pointing out about the earth leads by the way. As you know it's something that is so often overlooked, and needs checking. No-one has mentioned that one on here before you. Cheers dude. B)
 
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