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accord 04 hot starting problems solved (kinda)

B

Bart

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Location
Wiltshire
Car
Accord 2.2 estate ex
Hi guys,

Enough was enough - nipped over to a good mates garage and go him to try and start the car - another battery was connected to the one on the car to give more power while it was going to be turned over. He also placed the car on the computer - and turned it over - and over and over. The read out showed that the fuel pump pressure was low when the engine was hot approx 13/14 where it should have been around 30 - 33 (as advised by Honda). He looked through the whole system and everything else seemed ok.

Now in one of my other threads I mentioned rough running on a incline and a few other issues, that I felt with the vehicle.

I purchased a recon fuel pump - had it fitted to the car. The results were much better late 20's and the vehicle turned over quicker and starts and even better news, starts when it is hot!!!

It also pulls better and that judder up hills has now gone.

However on one occasion it did just turn over, thinking the worst i pressed the clutch in and the fuel and presto it started up straight away. Every time i start now, both clutch and fuel are pressed and its up and running straight away.

A few points that have been made before were - sticking starter or some issue with vacuum or leaking injector (this would have shown up on the pc test) - Its still not perfect in my eyes, but at least the ****** thing starts when hot!!!

After this check it was treated to an early oil change, fuel filter change and rebalancing of the wheels - the rears were out by 80 n/s - 100 o/s so it feels soooooo smooth to drive.

Just though i'd let you know. Anyway I'm looking at putting the old pump up for sale if anyone wants to have a dabble in sorting it.

Cheers

bart
 
Thanks for letting us know.
I'm just starting out out on the ''won't start when hot'' adventure.

Cheers
 
Maxim said:
Thanks for letting us know.
I'm just starting out out on the ''won't start when hot'' adventure.

Cheers
Click to expand...
So what have you done so far to try and solve this problem? I saw this post of yours in another thread...

Maxim said:
... Another '55 plate Accord pulled up at the same view point (same colour and everything :) ), driven by a real nice bloke, who had bought an Accord after driving unreliable BMWs! (oh dear!)
He had the very same problem with one of his BMWs ..... after spending a small fortune on fuel pumps and injectors, it turned out to be a component within the ECU that would over heat when the engine bay was hot, and not send diesel to the injectors.

This makes loads of sense to me, especially as the problem seems to relate directly to the heat in the engine bay, and simply opening the bonnet helping a great deal. surely must be a hot sensor or ECU?
Click to expand...

I haven't heard of a failure of the Bosch EDC16 ECU in any of the three Honda forums I have been a member of... but obviously you could be the first! I've never removed the ECU, so I don't know where it is, but it isn't in the engine bay where it might get hot. The injectors have separate drives from the ECU, so the same fault would have to affect the four separate output driver circuits, and why then would it be OK once started? I would focus upon the 'usual suspects' first, e.g. a restricted fuel filter (really must be an OE part, so Bosch for PFL or Denso for FL model), weaker-than-it-should-be battery or excessive injector leak-back (much worse when hot!)... these things make it much harder for the fuel pump to achieve the necessary fuel rail pressures at cranking speed. And if the rail doesn't achieve a minimum pressure (piezo sensor on LH end), then the ECU will not open the injectors.

Have you had the ECU error codes read to se what DTCs might be stored? Could be some useful clues there, even if you haven't noticed the MIL come on recently.

The EGR valve sticking open can also make starting difficult, so is worth a clean.

If you're not DIY-minded, then take it to a garage that has access to a genuine Honda Diagnostic System.
 
haha SPUTNIK is still in the corner of my local garage waiting for them to get time to do a leak test on the injectors. Its been in there so long its become a dusty 'barn find' and maybe starting to appreciate in value LOL. Seriously though, my Accord started to display the same traits hence I didn't want to sell it unless I was happy it worked properly.

Once they tell me the injectors are not leaking off,, I'm just going to pick up a used fuel pump of fleabay. They are knocking about from private sellers for a little a £100 quid now, this is become they are so good...there are more available than there is demand for.
 
Thanks Jon,
I've popped into a mate's garage, who has a diagnostic system, but more importantly can carry out the injector leak-back test for me, but like ebod - I may have to wait.
We had a good chat, and also wrote off the ECU idea, but all felt that the crank sensor breaking down when hot could be an idea, so the ECU doesn't see TDC. according to these guys, it's not unusual on other cars that they've sorted.

I'll keep you informed, as any resolve will be of interest.

Cheers
 
I believe ebod also investigated a possible crank sensor cause (and swapped it?). But sensors normally flag a defined ECU error code when they become open or closed circuit.

Leak back testing isn't a difficult DIY. And I would include the fuel rail over-pressure relief valve (on end of fuel rail) when doing this, as will cause the same depressurisation problem if dribbling.
 
Thanks Jon, I'm hoping to drop by there on Saturday morning to carry out a leak-back test. He needs to check that he has the correct syringe bodies etc to carry out the test. I'm waiting to hear back from him.

Cheers
 
Good luck, hopefully you'll soon be sorted. Even if it isn't a leak-back problem then hopefully the diagnostics will pick up the exact problem. Maybe the diagnostics (I'm ***uming HDS) should be used first to identify that there is actually a rail pressurisation problem? I think HDS would also pinpoint a dodgy crank sensor.
 
Fingers crossed Jon, it's a lovely car, and great for work visits and long drives through Europe with the wife & kids .... I just can't believe how much trouble I've had with it.

In 30K miles, I've replaced the driveshafts, Brake master cylinder and dual mass flywheel (popped a new clutch in, and noticed massive play in the flywheel, compared to a new one on the bench - massive difference - so installed the new one while it was all open - don't know if it really needed it to be honest, but the driveshaft vibration had started then, and the flywheel was under suspicion in any case), plus I seem to have had a whole bunch of niggly little problems like window motors etc that I've managed to forget about.

Mileage is now approaching 100K. it would be good to get at least another 50K out of it before changing it.

Thanks for your advice on this though.

Cheers
 
Hi Gents, I replaced the sensor on the cam, but there was also a sensor on the crank buried behind the a/c compressor which I got a used part for...but didn't fit. I opted to go down the injector or pump route, and that's where I still at...

Its weird as I've been snug in my Civic for months now , yet still have an Accord tucked away. I really wish I could have a Mk3 MR2 tucked away instead though :p
 
SPUTNIK been gone a month now. Its hot starting issue was a duff no4 injector leaking off too much.
 
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