What's new

Ball joint nuts

Kaput!

Active Member
Messages
236
Reaction score
43
Location
BOLTON UK
Car
04 accord tourer 2.0
Even though they seem fine its time to renew those front balljoints.Purchased a pair of meyle but im a little concerned as they came with nylock rarther than castle nuts.Surely they cant be reliable? Any thoughts? As it stands im gona buy a couple of castle nuts and drill holes in BJ thread for cotter pins if nessessary?
 

csak1981

Members
Messages
149
Reaction score
23
Location
Scotland
Car
Accord Tourer 8th Ge
If the nylocks start to loosen you'll certainly get a warning sign and start to hear and feel it. It's not like an actual ball joint failure where they've been know to just shear off with no warning signs with castle nuts still tight.
They usually shear off where the tapered section meets the ball
 

Kaput!

Active Member
Messages
236
Reaction score
43
Location
BOLTON UK
Car
04 accord tourer 2.0
Thanks guys.I guess the nylock nuts will be fine as long as theyre not removed in which case id replace it.Much smarter minds than mine design test and make these parts i just couldn't get my head around a lack of castle nuts lol.
Just for my own peace of mind i will fit a cotter pin just below nut.
 

SayamaAccord

And still...
Messages
1,557
Reaction score
235
Location
County Durham
Car
13 Tourer 2.4 EX man
Personally I wouldn't use threadlock on a nut that needs to be removed from time to time - it's just storing trouble up for later!
 

antdad

Members
Messages
386
Reaction score
73
Location
Heathrow
Car
Tourer i-cdti 07
Not at all, with the right stuff...

"For a hold that can be easily removed, Loctite Threadlocker Blue 242 is the hero. It’s perfect for motorized and nonmotorized parts that need occasional servicing, like car parts (oil pans, water pumps, etc), or even motorized yard equipment, bicycles, furniture and much more."
 

antdad

Members
Messages
386
Reaction score
73
Location
Heathrow
Car
Tourer i-cdti 07
Don't blame you! Nylock could strip.
Sorry but that's complete nonsense, a nyloc is essentially the same as an ordinary nut except for the top portion of it which is undersized in nylon or polymer which is why they need to be completely threaded on. They have as much chance of stripping as an ordinary nut as long as it is properly torqued which is zero and only need 1 1/2 bolt diameters of a thread for it to acquire it's maximum strength.



If you really don't like the idea of nylocks try Aerotight nuts which can be more reliably reused.



Lastly do you really think the likes of Meyle would use such a component on a critical part without having complete confidence in it? If there was the slightest risk they'd get sued from pillar to post.
 
Last edited:

Kaput!

Active Member
Messages
236
Reaction score
43
Location
BOLTON UK
Car
04 accord tourer 2.0
Sorry but that's complete nonsense, a nyloc is essentially the same as an ordinary nut except for the top portion of it which is undersized in nylon or polymer which is why they need to be completely threaded on. They have as much chance of stripping as an ordinary nut as long as it is properly torqued which is zero and only need 1 1/2 bolt diameters of a thread for it to acquire it's maximum strength.



If you really don't like the idea of nylocks try Aerotight nuts which can be more reliably reused.



Lastly do you really think the likes of Meyle would use such a component on a critical part without having complete confidence in it? If there was the slightest risk they'd get sued from pillar to post.
I totally agree with you! I was just looking for anyone with experience of using these on what is the most critical of components.I will use the supplied nuts and should i ever need to remove the nyloc then ill simply replace the nut.These are a single use item from my experience.Also i have scoured the web and can't find any reports of one of these working loose.I will still fit a cotter pin though....overkill maybe but only takes a few minites to add them.
I wouldn't mind betting you could stick any old nut on and it would remain tight,especially once corrosion sets in? We will never know lol
 

Kaput!

Active Member
Messages
236
Reaction score
43
Location
BOLTON UK
Car
04 accord tourer 2.0
Sorry forgot to check does anyone know nuts size? Are they M12 1.25 or 1.75?
Edit.... Seem to be M12 pitch 1.0
 
Last edited:

antdad

Members
Messages
386
Reaction score
73
Location
Heathrow
Car
Tourer i-cdti 07
LoL....scrapping the barrel there, whatever wheel fastener they are describing it isn't a nylock. There is no full polymer lining on a nylock, the fastener's strength comes from the metal on metal contact through the thread (like any ordinary nut) and the partial polymer insert prevents loosening which is why you haven't nor ever will find an actual example of a Nyloc being stripped.

Any "stripping" of actual threads be it the nut or rod will come about through over tightening, cross threaded, corrosion or plane old wear and tear. As mentioned IF Nylocks are frequently undone then the polymer insert becomes less effective in preventing loosening so should be replaced IF that is the case...and generally it really shouldn't be for a bottom ball joint.

Threadlock is used on automotive and aerospace builds the world over, there are different setting strengths for different applications and it isn't generally used on suspension components because Nylock or Aerotight nuts that need to be undone frequently are thought to be quite satisfactory but it can be used. A medium set threadlock like Locktite 242/243 will give you added security without problems of of a harder setting compound.
 
Last edited:

SayamaAccord

And still...
Messages
1,557
Reaction score
235
Location
County Durham
Car
13 Tourer 2.4 EX man
From where I'm standing you jumped to the wrong conclusion about what 'stripped' meant and went off on one! :D

The article is about a nut with "a nylon insert that lines the centre hole of the nut, which allows it to grip or lock onto the threads of the shaft" You might call it something else, but the rest of the world calls that a Nylock nut. It doesn't say anything about a full polymer lining, that's just another misinterpretation on your part I'm afraid.

I think we best park this one now. I like your posts because I think you talk very good sense most of the time, with the odd exception such as that daft threadlocking suggestion, but this particular exchange isn't really getting us or anybody else anywhere.
 

stellamon

Members
Messages
220
Reaction score
33
Location
Shrewsbury
Car
Accord 2.2i-DTEC
I've never had a problem with a nylock locking nut in my life. They do the job they are designed to do very well and I've never had one come loose or strip itself.
The nylock part of the nut is confined to a small section at the top so does not affect the overall strength of the nut.
 

antdad

Members
Messages
386
Reaction score
73
Location
Heathrow
Car
Tourer i-cdti 07
I've never had a problem with a nylock locking nut in my life. They do the job they are designed to do very well and I've never had one come loose or strip itself.
The nylock part of the nut is confined to a small section at the top so does not affect the overall strength of the nut.
Thank you. Our friend Sayama is mistaken, nylon is actually a polymer but that's ok. Hopefully anybody else reading this thread will also realise that Nylocks are absolutely fine and cannot be stripped as accused and we have given an explaination as to why. The fact that car and component manufacturers resort to using them with impunity and without any reported failures is evidence enough, castle nuts have their place in low torque applications like holding in bearings but that's about it nowadays.

I've worked for many years in the aircraft engineering industry where fasteners and a means of fastening and keeping them so is far more advanced and critical than anything you would use on a car as you can imagine. The use of the right type of threadlock or even a cotter pin as well as a Nylock is fine, totally unnecessary but fine if it gives the OP piece of mind.
 
Last edited:

SayamaAccord

And still...
Messages
1,557
Reaction score
235
Location
County Durham
Car
13 Tourer 2.4 EX man
You pays your money, you takes your choice.....personally I would never use a nylock nut alone on a lower ball joint....nor do Honda....nor will the OP, wisely in my view.....but hey, each to their own :)
 

antdad

Members
Messages
386
Reaction score
73
Location
Heathrow
Car
Tourer i-cdti 07
You've made your point Samaya, more than once. The problem is or was that you couldn't provide any supporting evidence (there is none) to justify not using Nylocks alone while also stating they can strip and the use of thread lock can also cause problems neither of which is true and despite the extensive and contrary experience of myself and others on this thread.

We're all here to learn as well as contribute to helping others, let's try not to forget that.
 

SayamaAccord

And still...
Messages
1,557
Reaction score
235
Location
County Durham
Car
13 Tourer 2.4 EX man
The problem Tony is that you have misinterpreted what other people say
  • I said nylocks can strip ; the nylock is the inset not the thread in the nut
  • You claimed the article (the evidence you say I could provide) referred to full lining ; it did not
  • You stated car manufacturers use nylocks with impunity – obviously not correct with Honda lower balljoints
It’s not all about having additional knowledge, it’s about interpreting and applying it correctly too.

We're here to help others, not to lecture them, or misinterpret what they said.
 

stellamon

Members
Messages
220
Reaction score
33
Location
Shrewsbury
Car
Accord 2.2i-DTEC
The fact is that honda replacement ball joints are being manufactured and sold with lock nuts instead of the split pin stuff. NOT by Honda I might add as clearly pointed out by Sayama..
Honda spares are very expensive, suffice to say I never buy honda parts directly from the supplier, so I always try to use alternative supplies which may not last as long but will do nicely for the price.
It doesn't worry me at all, in fact it's easier than faffing around with split pins, which can be a bit of a pain to remove and replace. I feel just as secure with a lock nut.
 

peter.thinboy

Members
Messages
45
Reaction score
10
Location
montrose
Car
2003 accord
The use of the right type of threadlock or even a cotter pin as well as a Nylock is fine, totally unnecessary but fine if it gives the OP piece of mind.
[/QUOTE]
It wouldn't be fine if mods were discovered in a post-accident investigation. Anything other than the manufacturer supplied piece could be used in a rejection of claim/ damages scenario.
 

peter.thinboy

Members
Messages
45
Reaction score
10
Location
montrose
Car
2003 accord
Out of interest Lings Honda sell tie rod ends for £96.50, Euro Car Parts have Lemforder at £37.49 with castle nut and their subsidiary CarParts4Less have exactly the same part at £25.14. Cheapest part from a well-known manufacturer with castle nut I could find was Meyle at £14.89 inc. delivery so if Nyloc worries you, return them and get these. Bear in mind it's the stretching of the thread, within it's elastic limit, that keeps the nut tight - not the Nyloc material or the split pin. Effectively the tapered stud inc. ball and the knuckle become one part when ***embled as all movement in the TRend is confined to the ball cavity (ooer!)
 

antdad

Members
Messages
386
Reaction score
73
Location
Heathrow
Car
Tourer i-cdti 07
The use of the right type of threadlock or even a cotter pin as well as a Nylock is fine, totally unnecessary but fine if it gives the OP piece of mind.
It wouldn't be fine if mods were discovered in a post-accident investigation. Anything other than the manufacturer supplied piece could be used in a rejection of claim/ damages scenario.
[/QUOTE]

Threadlock isn't a modification is it and besides it's hardly likely to lead to a critical failure, drilling a hole for a cotter pin might but as you say that isn't what keeps a bolt tightened nor will it be on the part of the thread that is under load.
 

peter.thinboy

Members
Messages
45
Reaction score
10
Location
montrose
Car
2003 accord
It wouldn't be fine if mods were discovered in a post-accident investigation. Anything other than the manufacturer supplied piece could be used in a rejection of claim/ damages scenario.
Threadlock isn't a modification is it and besides it's hardly likely to lead to a critical failure, drilling a hole for a cotter pin might but as you say that isn't what keeps a bolt tightened nor will it be on the part of the thread that is under load.
[/QUOTE]
Nyloc nuts are designed to be ***embled on clean, dry threads. Using Loctite is a modification of ***embly procedure. Loctite can also affect some plastics e.g. the locknut insert if not Nylon. All considered - why do it?
 

Ian

New Member
Messages
7
Reaction score
2
Location
Lancashire, UK
Car
Accord 2.0 Saloon 06
In all my years working on cars, ive never had a problem with a nylock nut. Never had them strip or even come close.
 

Kaput!

Active Member
Messages
236
Reaction score
43
Location
BOLTON UK
Car
04 accord tourer 2.0
Jobs done and fitted with the supplied nylock nuts,didn't bother wasting my time fitting my own cotter pins.Required some force to lock these nuts up and IMO you would have a hard time removing them with a breaker bar never mind naturally working loose lol.
Feel stupid having asked the original question now ive used these nuts,although im not sure removing them in future will be easy?
Only issue i have now is tracking a tiny bit out having replaced a lower control arm while i had everything in bits.Nothing to do with the balljoints though.
 

Ian

New Member
Messages
7
Reaction score
2
Location
Lancashire, UK
Car
Accord 2.0 Saloon 06
Providing you've torqued them up to the spec the manufacturer has given, you shouldn't have a problem removing them in the future.
 
Top