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Battery ELD issue. Any ideas?

T

timswift13

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Stirling
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accord 2.2 diesel
Apologise if this has been posted before, but could not find anything on this. I have an accord 2008 cdti (7th gen) which I have owned for the past year and 5 months ago fitted a new alternator. All has been fine until a constant battery warning light appeared. Was still starting fine but decided to change the battery regardless, however the light remained and next day car wouldn't open never mind start. Took the battery back and replaced, started up with no warning lights but within 10 seconds had my dash light up like a Xmas tree. Eld is built into the fuse box and wondered if this could be the problem (could be well off though). Any ideas or suggestions would be greatly appreciated! Tim
 
It will be good if you run a diagnostics and see what fault codes are registered. Have them cleared and then check again.
 
I had it previously checked on a snap on diagnostic and it was only showing an error relating to a valve on the intake manifold not working correctly. I had it checked the first time I had all the warning lights appear as I was driving the car. I will see if I can borrow one today to check if there are any new codes. I don't know to much about the eld, could this cause the battery to over charge as there was a small loss of acid from the battery on the negative side?
 
It might be the ELD unit, best thing is to measure the voltage across the battery, when the engine is warm measure at 2,000 rpm with headlights on full beam.
 
Thanks for the suggestion. I have a few days off coming up so will check error codes and measure the voltage. I had measured the battery previously when warm with the engine running and not and everything seemed to be reading as I'd expect. Will let you know how I get on! Thanks again!
 
Error codes on the car are P0563 and P1043. Not sure what could have caused either of these though?
 
The first is a high voltage error, second was to do with injector I think but would need to double check. Erased the codes and jumped the car and no more codes. Left running for an hour to charge an older battery I had and have left to see if it holds the charge. Will go back out tonight, battery was sitting at 12.67 with engine off after and hadn't dropped after a few minutes. It was charging at 16.7 and dropped to 15 after the hour of charging.
 
16.7 volts is far too high, that will slowly "boil" off the water in the battery.


btw

DTC P0563 = ECM Power Source Circuit High Voltage (check if this code comes back)


DTC P1043 = No. 3 Cylinder Injector Circuit Shorted (this must be an old code)
 
Thanks for the confirmation! Appreciated. I have checked and neither have came back since.
A small update, been out after 5 hours to check voltages. 12v and fairly steady, so started up and voltage climbed to about 14.6 before slowing. Took it for a short drive and battery light was on almost whole time other than in neutral (any ideas why?) once back measured voltage and was at 15.5 and still slowly climbing so turned it off. Any further thoughts or suggestions on what I could try? Thanks again for the help!!
 
This is the circuit diagram for the CM2 (2.4 Tourer) but, except for the fuse numbering, the 2.2 diesel is the same.


click on it to enlarge


SEA3E00000000000000EBAT00i001.jpg


If you're confident that the replacement alternator and its regulator are ok, then it could be the ELD unit.


There's a slightly better diagram with the pin numbers on the units, I'll do that hi-res and make an image.
 
I was able to pick up a used fuse box from the scrap heap identical to mine so had been thinking of swapping them over and seeing if it makes a difference.
I will also double check the alternator again. Thanks for the diagram, was unable to expand it on my phone so will get the laptop out.
 
Logically, what if an alternator is faulty, would it work or not at all? I think if it is faulty it will not work at all. Why I think that way - after all the alternator is receiving signals when to charge and when to cease activity, am I right?
If I am, then whatever sends signal to the alternator might be faulty, 'cause it's obviously telling the alternator to constantly charge, so these might be switches or sensors? This might be the reason at first that fried your battery and damaged the alternator subsequently.
Car's electronics operates on mutual data exchange thru sensors, which data is computed via ECM/PCM a.k.a ECU/s. So if the ELD sends signal to the alternator charge should stop, something like a switch should turn it off, cuts the current.

Have asked someone to follow this logic? I am not sure, but having an idea and experience with other stuff in the car that depends on sensors, here it should be the same as well.
 
^ in answer to the above

The regulator circuit could be faulty, it's in the alternator.
The ELD unit measures the charging current, that could be faulty
There could also be an earthing fault somewhere


This is a better circuit diagram of the charging system - the pin numbers, fuse numbers, and colour codes in this diagram should relate to the diesel, but I can't guarantee that ;)


CN1_charging.jpg



ECM = engine ECU (hopefully that is not faulty)
 
Once again, thanks at the very least I feel more educated on the electrics in the car! Always been more comfortable with the mechanics!

The diagram is really helpful and will try a more strategic approach regarding the possible faults.
I have looked into eld faults (on earlier hondas) and certainly have symptoms similar to mine. Certainly need to check the alternator and if possible voltage regulator, having a new alternator really was hoping it would not be either through.
Might just swap the fuse box over failing this incase it is the eld after all?
 
I suppose you could try swapping that, on the 2.4 it's a bit fiddly to get the fuse box out, no idea about the 2.2
 
Yeah it is a bit but might be worth trying if the voltages from the alternator are okay as I don't know an easy way to test if the eld is working correctly at the moment?
 
I really doubt it is the fuse box, I have come across only 2-3 times of all forums I follow, USA and NZ reported that issue, 1 is American Accord the other is the Euro one, but it was checked somehow and that check led to the conclusion it's the fuse box in the compartment.

If there is a way, or even if there isn't, you have to check the electrical system connected with the work of the alternator.

I know it is easier for us (just advising), than it is for you (who suffer), but like I said - if battery is overcharging (according to your findings), and the alternator is the charging source, then this would mean that the alternator most probably is constantly charging the battery no matter what. The battery cannot get overcharged if charge process is ceased, can it?
Check if it is like that.
 
crown_bg said:
I really doubt it is the fuse box, I have come across only 2-3 times of all forums I follow, USA and NZ reported that issue, 1 is American Accord the other is the Euro one, but it was checked somehow and that check led to the conclusion it's the fuse box in the compartment.

If there is a way, or even if there isn't, you have to check the electrical system connected with the work of the alternator.

I know it is easier for us (just advising), than it is for you (who suffer), but like I said - if battery is overcharging (according to your findings), and the alternator is the charging source, then this would mean that the alternator most probably is constantly charging the battery no matter what. The battery cannot get overcharged if charge process is ceased, can it?
Check if it is like that.
Click to expand...


ELD is in the fusebox, that's why the OP wants to swap out the fuse box

The ELD measures the charging current, the ELD sens a voltage to the engine ECU, and the latter controls the voltage regulator, which is in the alternator

i.e. voltage regulator in the alternator varies the voltage output from the alternator, and that output will vary in part according to feedback from the ELD that indicates current being drawn. If the latter is indicating a current higher than reality then the regulator will put the alternator's output voltage too high. This ***umes that the regulator is itself working correctly, and that all the other connections in the circuit are good. There's no harm in swapping the fuse box with its ELD unit as an attempt at seeing if the ELD is faulty.



timswift13 said:
Yeah it is a bit but might be worth trying if the voltages from the alternator are okay as I don't know an easy way to test if the eld is working correctly at the moment?
Click to expand...

Probably easier than the alternative, which is to check all the connections in the circuit - that would be your next step if the other ELD doesn't change anything.
 
I think I'm going to check voltages from alternator and see what the readings are first. I spoke to the guy who did my alternator (good friend) recons it was a refurbished unit so was wondering if the voltage regulator might be old or not replaced.... Still under warranty so no loss but think a good thing to check. Might struggle to look into this until weekend unfortunately.

Once again appreciate all the suggestions and knowledge, would probably be in honda by now getting taken for all I'm worth!!
 
Update

So I've been out and jumped my car. Initially readings looked promising after 10 mins with battery voltage around 13.8 with engine on and alternator voltage slightly higher at 14.08. Took the car a drive for these figures to be higher at 14.1 and 14.38. Left the car running for another 20 minutes and replaced readings were up to 14.66 and 14.89 respectively. I'm guessing either the alternator or voltage regulator are gone with these readings?

Thanks again for the suggestions :)
 
It's difficult to say on those readings, because they never went over 15.3 volts

On the diesel, when the engine is warm (radiator fans coming on), the voltage across the battery at 2,000 rpm with headlights on full beam should be between 13.3 and 15.3 volts

In another thread some time ago, someone connected a voltmeter in the cabin to observe battery volts while driving. If you look at the circuit diagrams in #14 fuse 21 in the under-dash fuse-box might be a good place to pick up battery +ve (but be careful how you insert a wire from the fuse to the voltmeter).
 
I have voltmeter constantly plugged in cigarette lighter socket. When engine is running (any speed or idling) readings are around
12.2- 12,5V or 14.1- 14,25V.
Recently I sold my i-CTDi and bought 2.0 i-VTEC. On the diesel, readings were the same.
I think voltage to be around 12 or 14V, controls from ELD (12V- no charge, 14V- charging) but how much is when charging (max. voltage) depends exclusively of regulator.
Voltage to be over 14.3 I think regulator is faulty (author mentioned 15-16V, which is absolutely unacceptable, it shortens battery life)
That is just my theoretical logic...
 
JapCar said:
I have voltmeter constantly plugged in cigarette lighter socket. When engine is running (any speed or idling) readings are around
12.2- 12,5V or 14.1- 14,25V.
Recently I sold my i-CTDi and bought 2.0 i-VTEC. On the diesel, readings were the same.
I think voltage to be around 12 or 14V, controls from ELD (12V- no charge, 14V- charging) but how much is when charging (max. voltage) depends exclusively of regulator.
Voltage to be over 14.3 I think regulator is faulty (author mentioned 15-16V, which is absolutely unacceptable, it shortens battery life)
That is just my theoretical logic...
Click to expand...
dead on correct - and using cigarette lighter socket to measure voltage is a good idea
 
Update for you all, with hopefully just one last question....

With alternator under warranty I've had it replaced and no more issues (by the looks of things) alternator reading 13.74 and batter 13.70 :) no more boiling battery!!

I am still getting a battery light on about 1500rpm under a average throttle, under low or high throttle no battery light. Any thoughts?

Thanks for all the help with this!! Probably saved a fortune!
 
timswift13 said:
I am still getting a battery light on about 1500rpm under a average throttle, under low or high throttle no battery light. Any thoughts?
Click to expand...
no idea on that, maybe check to see if there are any codes
 
I would recommend you to find someone who or somewhere, where live data feed can be monitored while driving.

Do you have this when car is in neutral?
 
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