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Bit Of Advice

S

Sit

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Bristol
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Car-less!
Afternoon all,

Well after much hunting around and waiting i think i 'may' have found the Tourer for me, its a '54 plate CDTi Exec with sunroof, sat nav, premium sound, heated leather etc. FSH most of which is Honda bar the last 4 which are the same independent garage and 1 owner from new. Pictures and description is spot on and the seller is honest in his description which brings me to the advice part -

He describes having collected it and driven it home as having a slight jerkiness in the revs if you plant your foot on the motorway?? In normal driving he describes it as being fine and not noticable and only when booting it on the motorway did this surface. I appreciate it could be a myriad of things but could anyone give me a bit of advice on whether it could be something simple like EGR or similar or whether its something more sinister??

Also would this type of fault show up if plugged into to Honda diagnosis? I did think about asking whether he would be prepared to take it to Honda dealer and have it read to see if throwing up any fault codes.

Would appreciate your advice on this, in everyway its the perfect one for me i just need to make an informed decision. I guess with this fault declared it should have an effect on the price or offer i make on the car??

Regards

Si
 
Your right it could be a myriad of things !

It would be good if there is a fault code as it would give something to go on.

You could do with finding out the following :

Service history, especially when the last fuel filter was replaced and whether it was a genuine filter or an after market one.

Does the glow plug light ever flash during the hesitation ?

Does this happen at a particular point in the rev range?

What is the mileage on the car ?

When did it start doing this ?

How often is the oil changed and what grade oil is used ?

Where did he have the services done i.e main dealer / independent.?

Has the car been re-mapped and if so by which company ?

The chances are that it could be a simple issue of the fuel filter has not been replaced or an after market part has been used, which from experience on here the i-ctdi doesn't seem to like as much as the genuine filter. ( A bit like a printer with compatible ink cartridges, some printers work fine some just don't get on with compatibles)

Best advice is go and see it, get him to highlight the fault to you, and keep an eye on the dash for an orange light flickering, which would move the probability more towards the fuel filter.

There are plenty of other things it could be also but really we would need a fault code or a more detailed description of all the symptoms.

At the end of the day, why is he selling it ?
 
Thanks for your detailed reply CJM will try my best to answer your points -

The car is being sold by a dealer, not franchise but small independent and I suspect the journey he speaks of was when he collected it from auction house and drove it back. There is no talk of any flashing lights or illuminations on the dash just an obvious hesitation.

The fuel filter sounds like a probable culprit, particularly as the last 4 services were done by an independent so likely the used a non genuine filter if they did indeed replace it.

Mileage is 119,000 and it was last serviced at 117,522. . If the price is right I am tempted to have a punt on it as the rest of the car and condition shows it's a cherished example and I tend to think the hesitation is something simple. Having re-read his description it is described as the revs jumping as oppose to how I described it as jerkiness.

Will see what more history I can find out and repost in a while.

Don't know if the above helps at all.

Si
 
Sit said:
Mileage is 119,000 and it was last serviced at 117,522. . If the price is right I am tempted to have a punt on it as the rest of the car and condition shows it's a cherished example and I tend to think the hesitation is something simple. Having re-read his description it is described as the revs jumping as oppose to how I described it as jerkiness.

Will see what more history I can find out and repost in a while.

Don't know if the above helps at all.

Si
Click to expand...
Sounds as if it could be clutch slip.
 
This indeed does sound like a clutch. Slip, and with the millage it is possible ...
 
Would clutch slip only manifest itself at motorway speeds then?? Any other tell tale signs to check if I go to view it??

Also interested in how much budget for if it is a clutch?

Regards

Si
 
Sit said:
Would clutch slip only manifest itself at motorway speeds then?? Any other tell tale signs to check if I go to view it??

Also interested in how much budget for if it is a clutch?

Regards

Si
Click to expand...
If I remember correctly buddy, the accord clutch slip only really makes its self apprent on motorway speeds were the revs seem to increase or jump up and the speed remains the same or climbs slowly compared to the revs...this I think happens mostly in 3-4 gear, its different to clutch slips in other cars, so can be a bit difficult to notice untilled you jump on the motorway, a bit like what you have described, if the car is on its original clutch then it could indeed be the clutch bud,pricewise I think honda happiness. Price is 560-580 I think, but I'm sure one of the other guys will confirm this :)
 
Sit said:
Would clutch slip only manifest itself at motorway speeds then??
Click to expand...
Unless the clutch is slipping it's difficult to imagine how the revs could jump at motorway speeds.

No idea about cost I'm afraid, but I would be guessing around the £1k mark depending on what actually needs doing - best just ring a Honda garage and ask :)
 
£850 apparently:
http://www.honda.co.uk/cars/owners/partsandservicing/fixedpricerepairs/
 
Thanks chaps, can't get my head around it being the clutch with the described symptoms but you guys know far more than me so going to go and have a look and see what's what.

If there is any other way I ca really test the clutch to either identify that's the problem or rule it out then please let me know.

Regards

Si
 
If you can't get to a motorway then the 'standard' test is 4th gear at 30mph - put your foot down all the way and see what happens, though any slip might not happen until the power comes in around 2,000rpm (so probably won't be immediate) and depending how the gearing is might not show in 4th at all. Try similar runs from low revs to medium in 5th & 6th, up an incline if you can find one. What you're trying to do is get as much power through the clutch with as much resistance to acceleration as you can. The reason it shows up on a motorway is (presumably) because 70mph in top is 2,000rpm so decent power but lots of (wind) resistance to actually speeding up.
 
Sit said:
Thanks chaps, can't get my head around it being the clutch with the described symptoms but you guys know far more than me so going to go and have a look and see what's what.

If there is any other way I ca really test the clutch to either identify that's the problem or rule it out then please let me know.

Regards

Si
Click to expand...


From what has now been described it does sound like clutch slip as has been said by the guys and was summed up nicely by ukaccord.

The clutch slip on the Accord is quite refined and is quite often un-noticed for some time.

You also have to be quite careful when testing for it as too heavy on the accelerator and you might actually miss the symptoms (depending on how far gone it is).

the revs generally increase say 300 to 500 with some lag before the power comes in, either in third to fourth or fourth to fifth, generally speaking there is no smell of burning clutch plates etc.

I'd have a good look at the service history as with the mileage, if the oil services have been stretched and 0w/30 has not been used, then you maybe want to check out whether the timing chain has been replaced, if you put "timing chain" in the google custom search function on the top right of the forum and have a read of some of the threads. ( not to scare you or anything, but that would be a concern if and independent has done the servicing and not used the recommend fluids etc, please note this is nothing against the independent but we have seen some put 10w40 in etc, because they think the mileage is getting a bit high and of course as of yet we don't know what has been used )

My personal advice is go and drive and listen to a couple as well as this one, just so you have something to go on.

Another thing to check is that with the engine running and the bonnet up, from the drivers side, at the rear of the engine see if you can smell exhaust fumes that may indicate a cracked manifold.

Both timing chain and cracked manifold are covered by an extended warranty, however the age of the car might be now just outside of it and the mileage is close also.

It could be of course that it is a fine example, well looked after, but with the unfortunate clutch slip, a bit of reading on here will help you out with what to look out for. As with all second hand cars, things like clutches you can never really tell how long they have left, so if it is the clutch then I don't think it is a deal breaker, but you need to look closely at any service history and check out the other things mentioned.

Good luck
 
CJM said:
From what has now been described it does sound like clutch slip as has been said by the guys and was summed up nicely by ukaccord.

The clutch slip on the Accord is quite refined and is quite often un-noticed for some time.

You also have to be quite careful when testing for it as too heavy on the accelerator and you might actually miss the symptoms (depending on how far gone it is).

the revs generally increase say 300 to 500 with some lag before the power comes in, either in third to fourth or fourth to fifth, generally speaking there is no smell of burning clutch plates etc.

I'd have a good look at the service history as with the mileage, if the oil services have been stretched and 0w/30 has not been used, then you maybe want to check out whether the timing chain has been replaced, if you put "timing chain" in the google custom search function on the top right of the forum and have a read of some of the threads. ( not to scare you or anything, but that would be a concern if and independent has done the servicing and not used the recommend fluids etc, please note this is nothing against the independent but we have seen some put 10w40 in etc, because they think the mileage is getting a bit high and of course as of yet we don't know what has been used )

My personal advice is go and drive and listen to a couple as well as this one, just so you have something to go on.

Another thing to check is that with the engine running and the bonnet up, from the drivers side, at the rear of the engine see if you can smell exhaust fumes that may indicate a cracked manifold.

Both timing chain and cracked manifold are covered by an extended warranty, however the age of the car might be now just outside of it and the mileage is close also.

It could be of course that it is a fine example, well looked after, but with the unfortunate clutch slip, a bit of reading on here will help you out with what to look out for. As with all second hand cars, things like clutches you can never really tell how long they have left, so if it is the clutch then I don't think it is a deal breaker, but you need to look closely at any service history and check out the other things mentioned.

Good luck
Click to expand...

No wonder they call you Dr diesel Carl bud :), your brilliant :)
 
Thanks for all the advice, spent several hours reading through some of the posts on here last night regarding the diesel engine and ***ociated weak spots.

Decided that given the fact I probably don't cover more than 5000 miles in a year and that 5 days out of 6 I cycle to work, I am going to buy a Type S Tourer. The cost of fuel at the pumps, coupled with more expensive servicing on a diesel plus the potential problems with turbo etc means the Type S isn't such an extravagant comparison.

Keep you posted!

Si
 
All this talk re "weak" diesels, timing chains, cracked manifolds, slipping clutches, I would be interested in "seeing" how many on here who have these"feeble" motors have actually suffered from any of the above, and how they came by the said vehicle in the first place. As for me mine is 54 icdti tourer purchesed when it was three years old, and the warranty period had expired, also the milage was up 90,000. It had been a company car and spent most of it's time on motorways, had been serviced at the scheduled intervals i.e 12,000 miles. As far as the service records show there have been no "issues" bar tyre changes, and a body repair which is barely percievable. Since I have had it it has never missed a beat, except for once when through ignorance I allowed the fuel filter renewal go longer than it should have. I have changed the oil at 6,000 miles and changed the oil filter at 12,000 miles using 0-30w oil. I had to replace the nearside caliper and brake line last year, and the rear roll bar bushes and links, apart from that nothing, am I one of the fortunates on here? or are there just a few unfortunates who have bought "dogs" from dubious quarters. Now at 170, 000 happy miles, and several more to come hopefully
 
Concratulations on your purchase and keep us posted Si how you get on
 
edgeoftime said:
All this talk re "weak" diesels, timing chains, cracked manifolds, slipping clutches, I would be interested in "seeing" how many on here who have these"feeble" motors have actually suffered from any of the above, and how they came by the said vehicle in the first place.
Click to expand...

I did try to start a thread that would include all the people who've owned them with no issues:
http://typeaccord.co.uk/forum/topic/6095-accord-mileage-database

Didn't get much interest though. :(
 
Sit said:
Thanks for all the advice, spent several hours reading through some of the posts on here last night regarding the diesel engine and ***ociated weak spots.

Decided that given the fact I probably don't cover more than 5000 miles in a year and that 5 days out of 6 I cycle to work, I am going to buy a Type S Tourer. The cost of fuel at the pumps, coupled with more expensive servicing on a diesel plus the potential problems with turbo etc means the Type S isn't such an extravagant comparison.

Keep you posted!

Si
Click to expand...

fair point and considering the mileage probably doesn't warrant the extra cost of the diesel.

As edgeoftime has pointed out, there are many on here who have had no significant issues with the diesels, it is just that there are certain area's to look out for. Unfortunately many people go for a diesel for the economy and also take that to the servicing etc by pushing it to the limits.

Just to set the record straight, there isn't really that many issues with the i-ctdi, however that does depend on how you maintain it, it is perhaps a little less forgiving to neglect than the Honda petrol counterparts which are truly bomb proof.

Good look in your search
 
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