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Confused about oil spec

M

markotsg

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Location
London
Car
Honda Accord
Hello

Got 2.0L Accord 2009. Petrol

My owners manual states I can use ACEA A1/B1 , A3/B3 OR A5/B5

API SL or higher

Does that mean API SM and SN should be fine for this car?

API SN (the latest one) has been introduced in 2010 so after the car was released?



Also
I am seeing many oils in ACEA C3 grade, is this compatible with this car and (ACEA A1/B1 , A3/B3 OR A5/B5) specs?

Many thanks all
 
ACEA is the European spec, API is the American one.

SM and SN are higher than SL. SN is the best. A1 is economy, A3 is performance, and A5 is best of both. C3 is for diesels. Stick with an A as per the manual.

0W 20 is the recommended viscosity. This stuff is decent and competitively priced. A lot of people on the forum use this brand without any problems.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/EXOL-FULLY-SYNTHETIC-FUEL-EFFICIENT-0W20-5LTR-FOR-THE-LATEST-HONDA-ENGINES-/272273006976?hash=item3f64bc6180:g:8c0AAOSwnFZXXsBM

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/EXOL-FULLY-SYNTHETIC-FUEL-EFFICIENT-0W20-2-X-5LTR-FOR-THE-LATEST-PETROL-ENGINES-/272273013054?hash=item3f64bc793e:g:njUAAOSwmtJXXsKw
 
About oil chose there is around a milion of discusions on the forums and more you read less you know.
If you want to protect your engine you should put an A3/B3 or A3/B4 and the viscosity choose is all about the conditions in which the engine must operate...an 0W20 oil could be reccomended for very cold countries or for the fuel economy, so if you live in hot coutry and in the summer the air temp can raise up to 40°C the 0W20 can't handle this because it become fluid like water.
The same engine around the world will need diferent oil viscosity but same oil spec's ( ACEA standards ).
Another thing to considerate is the driving style.
If you drive most of the time pedal to the metal you will damage your engine very quick with an 0W20 oil because the oil temperature will raise to that point that it can't libricate the engine properly.
Many factors must be taken in consideration when buying an motor oil


Poslano z mojega SM-N910C z uporabo Tapatalk
 
Cliffordski said:
Honda recommend 0W 20 for this engine in the UK.
Click to expand...
Really? is that from a dealer? or the handbook? According to my handbook the only recommendation for this spec of oil is for a Diesel. Petrol just shows a chart best choose for the climate. I believe 5w/40 is what a lot of members on the forum use for the petrol, mind you I have a 2004 2.4. I have tried 10w/40, 5w/30 and 5w/40 and it does seem to be fine with all but ended up on the 5w/40 as most recommended for the Petrol. Not sure I'd trust a dealer recommendation as they are mostly franchises that are in it to make ££.
 
markotsg said:
Hello

Got 2.0L Accord 2009. Petrol

My owners manual states I can use ACEA A1/B1 , A3/B3 OR A5/B5

API SL or higher

Does that mean API SM and SN should be fine for this car?

API SN (the latest one) has been introduced in 2010 so after the car was released?



Also
I am seeing many oils in ACEA C3 grade, is this compatible with this car and (ACEA A1/B1 , A3/B3 OR A5/B5) specs?

Many thanks all
Click to expand...
API SN should be backward compatible, you can check this on the API website or other websites. Same with ACEA specs A5/B5.
Bit weary about C3 though as I understand these oils contain other additives not all engines agree with so if it doesn't call for C3 or other 'C' spec in the manual I personally would avoid it.
 
I checked my Tolerance data and even that says 5/40 for a 2.0 2003-2009 Petrol. Not sure where the 0/20 is coming from But I recall seeing that for a Diesel in my handbook.
 
Honda are putting 0w20 in all there petrol cars now and recommended for all 7th gen and 8th cars.
I'm trying this at the min but can't see any difference in performance.
Iv always used 5w30 with no issues.
5w40 is also a great oil for the CL9
 
brett said:
Honda are putting 0w20 in all there petrol cars now and recommended for all 7th gen and 8th cars.
I'm trying this at the min but can't see any difference in performance.
Iv always used 5w30 with no issues.
5w40 is also a great oil for the CL9
Click to expand...
Honda may be putting it in but I would stick to what the handbook says which is direct from the manufacturer rather than a so called 'Honda' in the form of a franchise. I think 0/20 is too thin at 100deg for a petrol but hey it's your motor.

"recommended for all 7th gen" - Please show me this recommendation document direct from Honda (not a dealer), I would gladly read it and digest it.
 
ScoobyDoo said:
Honda may be putting it in but I would stick to what the handbook says which is direct from the manufacturer rather than a so called 'Honda' in the form of a franchise. I think 0/20 is too thin at 100deg for a petrol but hey it's your motor.

"recommended for all 7th gen" - Please show me this recommendation document direct from Honda (not a dealer), I would gladly read it and digest it.
Click to expand...


Hear you gohttp://hondakarma.com/data/attachment-files/2014/03/44221_HONDACASTROL.pdf
 
Great! crack on but I still stick to what the handbook says, that leaflet was produced in later years whereas the engine in my Honda was produced back in 2003 so it has been used to 5/40 or thereabouts all it's life.. Also if you look at the bottom of the table it does also say 'suitable alternatives Honda HFS 5w-40' for the solid green box (CL7, CL9, CM1, CM2) so personally I think this is a Castrol marketing ploy (thats my view tho) & interestingly it doesn't mention engine codes. I guess if you have the car young and use a 0w-20 then it will bed into that grade but going from a higher grade to a lower grade after many years and miles might not be a good idea. Been working on cars for over 20yrs. There's always going to be lots of discussion on oil grades as the market is very complex but my view is stick to the manufacturers written handbook or use ones years of experience and take the history of the engine into account.
 
TBO RL this is the first time Iv tried 0w20 as I'm for one for trying new things.
So far Iv done 2K and can't tell any difference from my normal 5w30 mobile1
The MPG is slightly better by about 2mpg so nothing to shout about.
The k24 engine will run on 0w20 to 5w40 and all depends on how the engine sounds and liked the oil.
Iv seen some K24 love a certain grade and some hate it tbh.
 
I hear ya. Just be weary about using a lower grade after using a higher grade for a long time. Especially in higher ambient temps, like our rare Mediterranean summers or if you travel to the south of France/Spain like we do, where a 20 will be much thinner than a 40 or 30 at 100deg engine oil temp. I experimented too but dare not to go lower than a 5w/30 grade and even with that mine didn't like it as much as a 10w/40 or 5w/40. I could distinctively hear (with my supersonic hearing so I'm told!) the bottom end was not happy with a 5w/30, I'm not talking about a loud clattering/banging but subtle changes where one can tell with experience. Mine is 2004 2.4 and I reckon all its life it has had 5w/40 and over the 10w/40 it seems to crank better in colder temps at the 5w for obvious reasons.
 
I will be trying 5w40 next to see any difference as I change my oil and filter every 6k.
 
I used to think the same as you about 0w20 but eventually I tried it and I haven't had any problems. I like it because the engine runs much better from a cold start than 5W30. It's up to you what you do but as I said Honda recommend it for the OP's engine.
 
It's worth noting the affects viscosity has on oil pressures too. Thinner the oil faster the flow but lower pressure.

Personally would go for 0/30 over 0/20 for cold start. We don't have extreme weather most of uk. But it's not hard getting a engine to 100deg plus, once your there the hot viscosity drops below the label. So in the case of 0/20 it can act like a 0/10 when above 100deg which is too thin.

On the flip side too heavy and it takes longer to reach optimal temp and then holds onto the heat far longer than a lower weight oil.

0/20 is ideal for economy drivers, not necessarily protection.
 
But there would be no difference in a 0w/20 vs a 0w/30 for cold start as it's the 'w' that denotes its viscosity at cold temperatures, the '20' and the '30' is the viscosity at 100deg? that is what I read anyway. Also my understanding is there is no such thing as 'weight' in oil grades just viscosity at various temperatures. So not to confuse the 'w' for weight.........

http://www.driverstechnology.co.uk/oils.htm

"VISCOSITY
Most oils on the shelves today are "Multigrades", which simply means that the oil falls into 2 viscosity grades (i.e. 10w-40 etc)
Multigrades were first developed some 50 years ago to avoid the old routine of using a thinner oil in winter and a thicker oil in summer.
In a 10w-40 for example the 10w bit (W = winter, not weight or watt or anything else for that matter) simply means that the oil must have a certain maximum viscosity/flow at low temperature. The lower the "W" number the better the oil's cold temperature/cold start performance.
The 40 in a 10w-40 simply means that the oil must fall within certain viscosity limits at 100°C. This is a fixed limit and all oils that end in 40 must achieve these limits. Once again the lower the number, the thinner the oil: a 30 oil is thinner than a 40 oil at 100°C etc. Your handbook will specify whether a 30, 40 or 50 etc is required."
 
Yes your right just a old habit using the term weight to describe viscosity not the W reading.

I was referring to Cliff who said the 0/20 was much smoother in the mornings, so that's why recommended 0/30 as a alternative.
 
On the protection front Sal Honda now specify 0W20 for the CTR - so they must be fairly confident
 
Cliffordski said:
Yes and no...the 0W 30 is more viscous on startup

http://www.exol-lubricants.com/data_docs/TDS%20M344%20Optima%20Vimax%200W-30%20-%20Iss%206.pdf


http://www.exol-lubricants.com/data_docs/TDS%20M455%20Optima%20Vimax%200W-20%20-%20Iss%202.pdf

I've used both and find the difference very noticeable
Click to expand...
Maybe I'm reading it wrong;

0w/30 - Kinematic Viscosity @40c = 58
0w/20 - Kinematic Viscosity @40c = 42.2

That would make the 0w/20 less viscous (easier flowing) at lower temps (startup)?

At the end of the day it's always open to interpretation which oil you choose to use but I still stick by the handbook that came with the car plus years of experience. I still wouldn't put a 0w/20 in a car that's been running 5w/40 for 10years. Doesn't matter which dealer recommends it they are at the end of the day a franchise.
 
Less viscous = thinner. 42 cSt is thinner than 58. That's why the figures for both are much lower at 100 Celsius, because oil gets thinner when it's hot.

I'm not terribly interested which oil you choose to be honest - the purpose of my post was to clarify your incorrect statement about all 0W oils being of equal viscosity for the benefit of other members.
 
Cliffordski said:
Less viscous = thinner. 42 cSt is thinner than 58. That's why the figures for both are much lower at 100 Celsius, because oil gets thinner when it's hot.

I'm not terribly interested which oil you choose to be honest - the purpose of my post was to clarify your incorrect statement about all 0W oils being of equal viscosity for the benefit of other members.
Click to expand...
Sorry yes your post said 0w/30 is more viscous on start up, thats ok I don't disagree according to the docs you posted, I just read something wrong. I did say there would be no difference as the 'w' was the same but as you pointed out in the docs there can be a subtle difference of kinematic viscosity at lower temps. I posted a link from an informative site which basically said the lower the 'w' rating the better cold start flow it has and since 0 was the lowest number (unless they will introduce a minus range) I generalised it as 'no difference' for your average consumer. I guess there is a range at which 0w oils fall into so there could be subtle differences between manufacturers/refiners and even grades with the same 0w by the same manufacturer but I ***ume as long as it is 0w it would be a negligible difference in the grand scheme of things.

You clarified, thank you.
 
My apologies also - what I was trying to say was that I wasn't attempting to persuade you, but I expressed that poorly.
 
Cliffordski said:
My apologies also - what I was trying to say was that I wasn't attempting to persuade you, but I expressed that poorly.
Click to expand...
Its all good my friend, many sleepless nights are playing havok with my brain cells so mis-reading at the mo. It's good to talk! ;)

And I'm trying to prepare for the old mans 70th tomorrow. Butter chicken sauce on the go..............
 
Interesting stuff, still stuck at work but something to read later.

I Personally wouldn't use a 0/20 in performance aplications. Just like you would go a grade up on track use, I think it'll be too thin at higher temps.
 
As I understand it, it's about shear strength, which is evolving in thinner oils.

This thread is probably giving Greyedout a chuckle as he does this for a living.
 
I dug this out of a thread on this back in Feb 2015

graph_4_viscosity_comparison.jpg


which I nicked from this link http://www.kewengineering.co.uk/Auto_oils/oil_viscosity_explained.htm which Graham (aka "Greyedout") could have written LOL
 
Customer bought this in today and thought of this thread. Engine did idle smooth after change but the oil looked it hasn't been changed in a while.

 
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