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Diesel Chain - Accord 04

L

Linden Ryuujin

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Location
North West
Car
2005 I-CTDi Tourer
Hello, I'm looking at buying an Aug 2003 (54 plate) Accord 2.2i CTDi Sport 5dr (Estate). It very nice, but there was a slight noise I thought from the water pump (I was thinking bearing) but scanning around online I came across this top:
http://typeaccord.co.uk/forum/topic/94-noisy-or-rattling-timing-chain/page-10 (not sure what the policy here is on necroing so I thought I'd start a new topic...)

I don't think it sounded rattly enough to be the chain... but I'm worried that it could be the start of that kind of issue. The post says 04/05 engines, a few posts mention later engines, I just wondered if anyone know what the chain is like on the 03 engines, less likely to be a problem?
Thanks
 
I've just realized I've put a typo of 4 where it should be 3... twice, and I can't edit the post any more...

Just to clarify it is a 2003 (53) plate car, not 04 (54) as the topic ***le implies. Sorry, I posted this in a rush before I left for work.
 
Later engines (from sometime during 2006) had different chain tensioners (floating, rather than ratcheting) which was meant to put right the chain failures. So a 2003 diesel will be the same as a 2004 or 2005 in this regard.

It is an odd noise when the chains wear, as much a rubbing sound as a rattle... it would be easily confused with a noise generated by something driven by the aux belt. Mine has very noisy chains (there are 2) and it is only noticeable when hot and idling, I believe that this is because the oil pressure drops and so the tensioners cannot apply the necessary force to the flappy chains (these tensioners are driven by oil pressure, not springs).

I didn't realise that the diesel was available in 2003, that 53 example must be one of the first?
 
Thank for the info, I guess it must be a pretty early one. I had a feeling it would still be in the problem zone. I haven't seen much info on the 2003 so I guess there aren't so many around. I've got the number of the dealer who serviced it so I might give them a ring and see if they can tell me if the chain was ever done (I didn't look for it in the history when I saw the car as I wasn't thinking about it).
If it is the water pump I might see if I can get the dealer to do the work before I buy it and if the noise is gone then go for it.

I wonder what percent actually needed the chain doing, and how likely it would be to become an issue if the chain hasn't been done and everything sounds fine when I buy it. It's on about 108k miles and other than this slight sound and a DTC a front ABS sensor it looks in really good condition. Loving all the toys avalable... I'm basically looking for something fairly reliable (given the age) that isn't going to rust into nothing or fall apart in the next few years :) Honda certainly have that reputation.
 
Also check that the clutch is fine (ideally replaced at some time) as that is a far more common problem than the chains. And the exhaust manifold too (the weld cracks).

Welcome to the club, btw. Lots of info here on buying and what to watch out for.
 
I'll see what I can see, I did a test drive and the clutch felt fine, but it was around town so I didn't get a chance to do much with it (other than break the plastic catch on one of the windscreen wipers :b it was rather wet on Saturday).

Thanks for the welcome, I'm sure I be around ***uming everything checks out with this car :)
 
You need to test the clutch around peak torque (1900/2000RPM) using wide open throttle under a heavy load, so uphill in a high gear. Slipping on these engines is usually because the pressure plate has run out of self-adjustment and has therefore lost clamping pressure (not because the driven plate is worn, as is the more traditional way for clutches to fail). Worst case - where the DMF also requires replacement during the clutch change - you could get hit for around £700 or so.

I'm really not trying to put you off, btw! They are decent cars if you can avoid getting these problems.

But, if you have any suspicion about timing chain noise, then walk away. Costs a fortune to get fixed, around £1100.
 
Best to know what I'm looking at. Not sure I'll be able to do that in a test drive though...

Realistically it's a 10 year old car so I'm going to be looking at potential issues whatever I get, however the more I know the more I can make sure I'm in a good starting position :D Thanks a lot for the advice it's appreciated.
 
It does, but if you look at the pics it's 53 plate (mentioned Aug 03 in the paper work when I looked at it, but it seems 53 is Sep to Feb so maybe I got it wrong and it was early 2004, sorry for the confusion.
 
My 54 plate is actually a January 2005 registration.

I still reckon that must be one of the earliest Accord diesels though.
 
Unfortunately just had confirmation that it is the chain that's going. Boo. I'll keep my eye open for one that's had the chain already done maybe :b
 
I think so, I felt sorry for the dealer when he confirmed it for me :( Still, I've spotted a few others worth considering, just need to work out how much I care about estate vs saloon and leather seats (not a fan, much prefer half leather) Although I have to admit looking at pictures the cream leather looks way better than I thought it would :)
 
No, no, no, never ever feel sorry for a car dealer... it's karma in action when this happens, although he'll probably just put thicker oil in it and hope to sell it to someone less well informed.

The estate (tourer) is fantastically useful, albeit somewhat hearse-like in appearance... can get 3m lengths of copper pipes and guttering in, while still shutting the rear hatch (if that's your sort of thing).

What MR2 have you got? I've also got one of those little hairdresser wagon/go kart things, a 2003 roadster (but can only get 2m lengths of pipes in that, and that's only with the top down).
 
Mines a 1995 MkII, I love it, it's done me proud (and turned every tip to work into a joy). But I've got a house and children now so I need something that can fit a few more people in, not to mention something that doesn't need as quite as much tlc. I'll be sad to see her go though T_T

I've always been disappointed with the amount of space in a saloon boot, on the other than the estate does feel rather like driving a spaceship :b
 
Now this one is off the table I'm starting to scan around some more, but this issue has got me thinking. How does the petrol compare relibility wise to the diesel? If this was their first diesel engine it's not so supprising it has more problem than you might expect from a Honda. I do about 20k miles a year so diesel would be worth it generally... but I guess I could get a lot of petrol for the cost of a new timing chain :b It's mostly Diesels I see for sale, I wonder if this is because people sell them due to issues... or just that more diesels were sold compared to petrol.
 
I would expect fewer potential problems with a petrol Accord (I can't believe I just wrote that!). They are pretty bullet-proof, and the 2.0L is reasonably economical for a large car.

I imagine that a lot of available diesel Accords are sold purely because the previous owners realised that an expensive problem is developing... possibly chains, perhaps more likely a clutch that's starting to show signs of slipping? There were a lot of diesels sold though, and they tend to have covered a lot of miles, hence a lot more reported problems compared to petrols. But they are great cars to drive, as the torque output at low/medium RPM is very impressive and gives the impression of a much larger engine when driving around town and cruising on motorways. And the MPG is very good... it is a great engine when working as Honda intended. They also have great performance tuning potential via ECU remapping... the potential improvements are amazing, but can then finish off the clutch!

I'd still recommend the diesel, but be very careful to check for budding problems.
 
So, I've seen a one or two 2006 accords turning up in my price range, I believe the chain issue was fixed by then? Is any easy way to be sure it has the improved chain setup, did it arrive with the facelift? Any other issues with the 06+ that I should be keeping an eye out for?
 
Chain issue was never completely fixed... the very heavily loaded chains (particularly the oil pump drive) wore quickly in engine oil that had become contaminated with soot. Oil changes well before the 12.5k mile service interval would be a good thing to look for, and check (if possible) that fully synthetic 0w-30 or 5w-30 oil was always used.

Same with the clutches... later clutches were improved, but were still a bit marginal.

Exhaust manifold was never modified during production (replacement ones were improved, though).

So still look for these things being in good order, ideally replaced at some time.
 
Interesting, I thought with the extended warranty only covering some years that they had worked the issue out - replacing it with an improved chain or some such (from the sound of it it's hard to be sure even a Honda dealer will be doing the right thing oil wise I'll be very hard to find one with that much of a perfect history :b).

I had a test drive in a 2.0 petrol over the weekend and it felt completely gut-less which surprised me (over taking felt like a chore), I'll defiantly have to try the diesel on a motorway, from the first car I looked at the Diesel seemed to at least feel like it had power were needed but I could only test it around town.

Another random question, how does the cruse control work? My only experience with it is on my wife's Astra; you get to the speed you want and press the button to stay there. The Accord seems more complex (pressing the button did nothing on the car I drove on Sunday).
 
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