HID Help

[Egap08]

Hey all,

after some advice if poss. Just fitted an HID kit to the accord and both beams appear slightly different colours! One almost white and the other slightly blue, anyone come across this?

First thought it was the bulbs so had two more sent out, no difference. Then was sent a new ballast to try, still no change. Put the standard bulbs back and even they have slightly different colouration. But if i stand off to the right at certain angle they are the same, so now i'm thinking it lies with the headlamps themselves and the alignment. The lamp itself can only be tweaked up and down and the projector unit inside the light does have it's own adjustment but really don't want to mess with that if it can be helped as I don't want to mess it up.

Any suggestions would be great, my OCD can't handle non symmetrical lighting :lol:

 

[jayok]

Hey all,

after some advice if poss. Just fitted an HID kit to the accord and both beams appear slightly different colours! One almost white and the other slightly blue, anyone come across this?

First thought it was the bulbs so had two more sent out, no difference. Then was sent a new ballast to try, still no change. Put the standard bulbs back and even they have slightly different colouration. But if i stand off to the right at certain angle they are the same, so now i'm thinking it lies with the headlamps themselves and the alignment. The lamp itself can only be tweaked up and down and the projector unit inside the light does have it's own adjustment but really don't want to mess with that if it can be helped as I don't want to mess it up.

Any suggestions would be great, my OCD can't handle non symmetrical lighting :lol:

Projector lenses are angled to point the beam of light in a particular direction, in the case of RHD cars, they point towards the left slightly and throw maximum light to the left. So if you look at the car dead straight on, you will see a a slight-blueish tint off the lens even with standard halogens. There is nothing wrong here, you are simply seeing the light being refracted at the edge of the lens. This is similar to a projector camera in work/school or whatever for videos. If you're sitting to the side and look at the lens you'll see a blueish tint off the lens (obviously never look straight at it). You will also see this effect if standard bulbs are not mounted into the bulb holder correctly (it's possible to put H1's in upside down), as in essence when you do this you will change the focus point of the beam and get the light scatter.

If you've retro-fitted a HID bulb kit to the standard halogen projector housing, you are going to see unfocused light scatter and irregular cut off, in addition as the HID has a higher lux output that halogen it's even more pronounced in this housing. This will manifest itself as a "different" colour from the perspective of the eye, so it'll look different to the standard white (the temperature of the bulb affects this too 6000K has a blueish tint, 4300K is more white). As such the effect as described above is even more amplified, there's nothing wrong with the lens par se.

Now, one thing you can try is to adjust the HID bulb within the holder (you say it has adjustment) to minimise the effect of the blue tint, bulb I doubt you'll be able to eliminate it with this setup.

 

[Egap08]

Thanks for the info Jason, big help! Are the HID projector lenses different to the halogens then? I knew fitting HIDs to non projector lights (ie h4 etc) caused scatter and a horrible beam but didn't think this was the case with the 7th gen lights which should maintain a good beam and cut-off?! Got the 4300k kit because i wanted an oem look and didn't want the blue at all, here's a pic fitted

Yes the actual projector has four slotted holes in the back of the housing not really accessible once the lights in place, bit scared to mess with them so will probably have to learn to live with the difference

 

[TheHole]

egap08.

where in the uk are you?

for taking a picture, stand directly in frontbon the left side, and then to the same to the right side.

There is a huge colour difference in your pics and its unclear if its due to the angle your at, or the projector housing.

 

[jayok]

...Are the HID projector lenses different to the halogens then? I knew fitting HIDs to non projector lights (ie h4 etc) caused scatter and a horrible beam but didn't think this was the case with the 7th gen lights which should maintain a good beam and cut-off?! Got the 4300k kit because i wanted an oem look and didn't want the blue at all, here's a pic fitted

..

Yes the actual projector has four slotted holes in the back of the housing not really accessible once the lights in place, bit scared to mess with them so will probably have to learn to live with the difference

Optics for a Halogen and HID projector are different - yes. Why? It's all about the way halogens and HIDs emit light. For a halogen type bulb the light source is emitted from a filament that acts as a single point of say 0.1 mm in length. This 0.1mm is quite pointed and the halogen projector gathers all light emitted from this point and focuses it into a single beam for maximum light throw. Now the light from a HID bulb is emitted between two electrodes, in essence it's an arc of electricity and hence light. The light source has a much broader "longer" light source, say 1mm, of equal light intensity along the arc (Think of fork lightening it doesn't get duller as the fork moves across the sky). As such a HID projector must capture this "longer" light source and focus it into a single beam for maximum light throw.

So this is what's wrong when a HID goes into a halogen projector housing. The project is not designed to have high-intensity light beyond the designed single-point (0.1mm) and an arc of 1mm would be 10 times bigger. This 0.9mm of extra light isn't properly controlled by a halogen projector and you get scatter and unfocused light. (The use of the word "longer" and length is a gross simplification, but is used to explain the idea). And it's worse in halogen designed reflector housings and the reflector doesn't have enough the catch all spurious beams. For what it's worth, you don't have to use projectors with HIDs, and cars such as the Nissan Maxima, Legend (96-99), Volvo XC90 and others used to use reflectors specifically designed for HIDS and these work. It's just easier to as a optics engineer to control the HID light with projectors.

Onto your specific case - it's hard to tell from the photo where the possible source is, but I do see the yellow. Some things I would do:

1. Swap the bulbs from NS to OS and see does the problem remains
- If it does it's the bulb
- If it doesn't it's the housing

2. If it's the housing then the it can only being some sort of filtering
- It's either the projector or the plastic cover

If it's the housing the only real option would be to replace. Bear in mind housing can turn yellow over time with heat, sunlight, water, etc. This could be your issue, but again it is difficult to see from the photo.

 

[Jon_G]

It's becoming annoying how many cars emit blue/white dazzle when approaching... I guess this is because many owners now retro-fit HIDs into the standard halogen projector housing. I imagine you run quite a risk of being stopped by the police for this?

 

[Egap08]

egap08.

where in the uk are you?

for taking a picture, stand directly in frontbon the left side, and then to the same to the right side.

There is a huge colour difference in your pics and its unclear if its due to the angle your at, or the projector housing.

Im down in taunton, somerset will post a few more pics when i get chance. The colour difference is horrid but there is even a noticeable difference with the oem h1 bulbs too!

Optics for a Halogen and HID projector are different - yes. Why? It's all about the way halogens and HIDs emit light. For a halogen type bulb the light source is emitted from a filament that acts as a single point of say 0.1 mm in length. This 0.1mm is quite pointed and the halogen projector gathers all light emitted from this point and focuses it into a single beam for maximum light throw. Now the light from a HID bulb is emitted between two electrodes, in essence it's an arc of electricity and hence light. The light source has a much broader "longer" light source, say 1mm, of equal light intensity along the arc (Think of fork lightening it doesn't get duller as the fork moves across the sky). As such a HID projector must capture this "longer" light source and focus it into a single beam for maximum light throw.

So this is what's wrong when a HID goes into a halogen projector housing. The project is not designed to have high-intensity light beyond the designed single-point (0.1mm) and an arc of 1mm would be 10 times bigger. This 0.9mm of extra light isn't properly controlled by a halogen projector and you get scatter and unfocused light. (The use of the word "longer" and length is a gross simplification, but is used to explain the idea). And it's worse in halogen designed reflector housings and the reflector doesn't have enough the catch all spurious beams. For what it's worth, you don't have to use projectors with HIDs, and cars such as the Nissan Maxima, Legend (96-99), Volvo XC90 and others used to use reflectors specifically designed for HIDS and these work. It's just easier to as a optics engineer to control the HID light with projectors.

Onto your specific case - it's hard to tell from the photo where the possible source is, but I do see the yellow. Some things I would do:

1. Swap the bulbs from NS to OS and see does the problem remains
- If it does it's the bulb
- If it doesn't it's the housing

2. If it's the housing then the it can only being some sort of filtering
- It's either the projector or the plastic cover

If it's the housing the only real option would be to replace. Bear in mind housing can turn yellow over time with heat, sunlight, water, etc. This could be your issue, but again it is difficult to see from the photo.

Have four bulbs as two more were sent out, have tried them in every combination possible and can make slight differences but overall there is still off colouration side to side and it remains blueish left and yellow right. Also have three ballasts and again tried every combo with minimal effect.

Thanks for all your info, very interesting!

 

[Egap08]

Right I have fixed the problem.... and caused another :lol:

I very bravely completely dismantled both projectors. Nothing looked untoward or out of place, no visible colour difference in the lenses. Cleaned both of them, refitted after dropping the screws inside the headlights several times and voila. Both now the same colour Must have been grease or some build up to cause the off colour.

While I had it all apart and a massive hole in the light unit I thought i would fish out all the specs built up on the black inner housing, hoover fitted perfectly and got all of them out! However it scratched the inside of the lense :wacko: So now i have heated and split the lamp into two sections and friday will be spent cleaning and polishing back to mint. Oh well all will be worth it in the end, just need to work out what sealant honda use on the light so i can top it up for a perfect seal when putting it all back together

 

[jayok]

... just need to work out what sealant honda use on the light so i can top it up for a perfect seal when putting it all back together

This is an epoxy resin that's used. You shouldn't need any more, just reheat, push together and the seal should form.

 

[Salim]

As above you should be able to re-use the stuff that's on there, be sure to clamp them together somehow so when it sets it creates a good seal.

Otherwise aquarium sealant also works

 

[Egap08]

Want to strip the old sealant out completely only because there were silicone bags in the lights that had split where they had been touching the projector and burned, not good, anyway with lots of silicone grit in the lamp it's all stuck to the sealant. Don't think it would make a great seal to be honest! After some reading it appears oem stuff is a type of butyl bead (similar to aquarium pond stuff as salim said), ordered a roll from eBay for £10, more than enough for about 8 lights lol so if anyone needs some shout