Menu
What's new
By:
Advanced search...

Mirror, clutch, flywheel, rear brake calipers... it's a big Honda moan!

Jon_G said:
I think it's too important to take any notice of my guessing... hopefully someone with an Accord saloon who knows what they're talking about will put us right!
Click to expand...
ditto about myself re saloon rear brake pads :lol:

although they look the same as combined foot-brake/hand-brake pads on other cars
 
freddofrog said:
it's in the 2nd photo in #21

IMO they should be there, but, I'm not 100% certain of why
Click to expand...
Correct. There's a pin grinded off on one pad and still preset on the other.
I'm curious whether the pin is definitely required.
 
would the pin line up with, and fit into, the slot in the piston if the piston is rotated to vertical horizontal position ?

on that note, did you rotate the piston as it went back ?
 
DIY guide on saloon front and rear pads and discs here http://typeaccord.co.uk/forum/topic/47-diy-brake-discs-and-pads-change-03-updated/


it says above a photo of the piston in the rear caliper ........ "This is how the notches should be in the caliper, note they need to be horizontal with the caliper for the pin at the back of the pad to fit in"


(looks very similar to a non-Honda car that I used to have)
 
I rotated the piston back in with special tool, but didn't absolutely check the alignment of piston slots. I'm pretty sure the pin on the pad would fit into the slot on piston.
 
I have never aligned that pin on my rear pads change and its not given me a single problem

still not answered my question on where you bought these pads from and whether they are main dealer parts? The answer to that will answer most of your questions
 
TypeR said:
still not answered my question on where you bought these pads from and whether they are main dealer parts? The answer to that will answer most of your questions
Click to expand...
They're not from Honda dealer, just a local parts store and they ordered all parts based on their catalog. Not sure how accurate that is...
Anyway, if there is no certain reason for these pins, I'll just leave them as they are :)
 
Ok based on your answer I will say that the pads do not fit well. You will probably find they don't slide easily between the carriers and a little filing will be needed to make them fit correctly. If they are hard to move they will stick on and cause premature brake failure.

They shouldn't be loose but just enough that they glide in and out of the carrier. The second thing to ensure is that the slide pins are free to move and not stick. I normally remove mine, clean them and then regrease.

That's my thoughts so far, the other option is that you have a sticking calliper but this is can be diagnosed by how easy the callipers reminded back. If they required just a little force then they should be fine but if you really had to fight with them then they could be a seized. When I mean fight I mean you had to really add some strength to shift them, dot confuse this with a little bity of pressure.

Hope that helps and I think you have grinded down that tab for no reason IMO.

All my thoughts and experiences so please apply your own judgement to anything you decide.
 
The pin is definitely needed on my Toyota, which appears to have a practically identical rear braking system. Without it, the caliper piston will rotate when the handbrake is applied, resulting in the internal screw mechanic failing to push the calipers out and apply braking force.
 
TypeR said:
A full rewind should align the piston right?
Click to expand...
IF it is the same as my Toyota (it would be really great to have this confirmed), then the caliper piston needs a full rewind (clockwise) to retract it, then wind it back out at least 180 degrees before refitting the disc pads... actually it's best (especially with new pads) to wind it all the way in and keep going until just slightly past horizontal (it spins freely once back in all the way), so then it'll only need slightly over 180 degrees of winding back out again, because if you wind it out too far it can come out too far to comfortably get the new pads back in... this ensures that the screw mechanism for the handbrake is both properly initialised and engaged. Ideally the handbrake cables should be disconnected before starting, then the above actions completed, then the brake pedal pumped 20 times with the engine running to bring out the caliper pistons to their 'running' position, then finally the handbrake cables reconnected.
 
I have searched on the net and no where does it mention the alignment of the piston with the pad notch. Surely it would be somewhere or on someone's Video?
 
TypeR said:
I have searched on the net and no where does it mention the alignment of the piston with the pad notch. Surely it would be somewhere or on someone's Video?
Click to expand...
I agree. If you didn't align the pin during reassembly then it is possible that the pin would eventually align and engage as the piston rotated during handbrake operation. But I'd rather be sure that I'd done this myself.
 
I will next time take note of when doing the pads and see how much this notch aligns with the piston. It does make sense in principle but I just can't find anything to back this
 
From the Honda workshop manual for a 2005 CN1 (I don't have a clue what a KQ model is, so have copied all the info). It does mention aligning the pin, and there is also an illustration confirming this (which I can'r copy/paste, sorry)...

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Rear Brake Pad Inspection and Replacement
Frequent inhalation of brake pad dust, regardless of material composition, could be hazardous to your health.

  • Avoid breathing dust particles.

  • Never use an air hose or brush to clean brake ***emblies. Use an appropriate vacuum cleaner.
Inspection (Except KQ Model)

  1. Raise the rear of the vehicle, and support it with safety stands in the proper locations.

  1. Remove the rear wheels.

  1. Check the thickness of the inner pad (A) and outer pad ( B). Do not include the thickness of the brake pad backing plate.

    Brake pad thickness:

    Standard:
    8.9−9.1 mm (0.350−0.358 in.)

    Service limit:
    1.5 mm (0.06 in.)


  1. If the brake pad thickness is less than the service limit, replace all the pads as a set.


Replacement (Except KQ Model)

  1. Raise the rear of the vehicle, and support it with safety stands in the proper locations.

  1. Remove the rear wheels.

  1. Remove the brake hose mounting bolt (A).

  1. Remove the flange bolts ( B) while holding the pin (C) with a wrench being careful not to damage the pin boot, and remove the caliper (D). Check the hose and pin boots for damage and deterioration.



  1. Remove the pads (A).

  1. Clean the caliper thoroughly; remove any rust, and check for grooves and cracks.

  1. Check the brake disc for damage cracks.

  1. Clean and install the pad retainers.



  1. Apply Molykote M77 grease to the back of pads (A), and to the other areas indicated by arrows. Wipe excess grease off the pads. Contaminated brake discs or pads reduce stopping ability. Keep grease off the brake discs and pads.

  1. Install the brake pads correctly.
    If you are reusing the pads, always reinstall the brake pads in their original positions to prevent a momentary loss of braking efficiency.



  1. Push in the piston (A) so the caliper will fit over the pads. Make sure the piston boot is in position to prevent damaging it when installing the caliper.

  1. Install the caliper. Install the flange bolts ( B), and tighten it to the specified torque while holding the pin (C) with a wrench being careful not to damage the pin boot.

  1. Install and tighten the brake hose mounting bolt (D).

  1. Press the brake pedal several times to make sure the brakes work, then test-drive the vehicle.
    NOTE: Engagement of the brake may require a greater pedal stroke immediately after the brake pads have been replaced as a set. Several applications of the brake pedal will restore the normal pedal stroke.

  1. After installation, check for leaks at hose and line joints or connections, and retighten if necessary.

  1. Install the rear wheels.


Inspection (KQ Model)

  1. Raise the rear of the vehicle, and support it with safety stands in the proper locations.

  1. Remove the rear wheels.

  1. Check the thickness of the inner pad (A) and outer pad ( B). Do not include the thickness of the brake pad backing plate.

    Brake pad thickness:

    Standard:
    8.9−9.1 mm (0.350−0.358 in.)

    Service limit:
    1.6 mm (0.06 in.)


  1. If the brake pad thickness is less than the service limit, replace all the pads as a set.


Replacement (KQ Model)

  1. Raise the rear of the vehicle, and support it with safety stands in the proper locations.

  1. Remove the rear wheels.

  1. Remove the flange bolts (A) while holding the pin ( B) with a wrench being careful not to damage the pin boot, and remove the caliper (C). Check the hose and pin boots for damage and deterioration.



  1. Remove the pad shim (A) and pads ( B).



  1. Remove the pad retainers (A).

  1. Clean the caliper thoroughly; remove any rust, and check for grooves and cracks.

  1. Check the brake disc for damage cracks.

  1. Clean and install the pad retainers.



  1. Apply Molykote M77 grease to both sides of the shim (A), the back of pads ( B), and to the other areas indicated by the arrows. Wipe excess grease off the shim and pads. Contaminated brake discs or pads reduce stopping ability. Keep grease off the brake discs and pads.

  1. Install the brake pads and pad shim correctly. Install the pad with the wear indicator (C) on the inside.
    If you are reusing the pads, always reinstall the brake pads in their original positions to prevent a momentary loss of braking efficiency.



  1. Rotate the piston (A) clockwise into the cylinder, then align the cutout ( B) in the piston with the tab (C) on the inner pad by turning the piston back. Lubricate the boot with rubber grease to avoid twisting the piston boot. If the piston boot is twisted, back it out so it is positioned properly.

  1. Install the caliper. Install the flange bolts (D), and tighten it to the specified torque while holding the pin (E) with a wrench being careful not to damage the pin boot.

  1. Press the brake pedal several times to make sure the brakes work, then test-drive the vehicle.
    NOTE: Engagement of the brake may require a greater pedal stroke immediately after the brake pads have been replaced as a set. Several applications of the brake pedal will restore the normal pedal stroke.

  1. After installation, check for leaks at hose and line joints or connections, and retighten if necessary.

  1. Install the rear wheels.
 
Jon_G said:
I agree. If you didn't align the pin during reassembly then it is possible that the pin would eventually align and engage as the piston rotated during handbrake operation. But I'd rather be sure that I'd done this myself.
Click to expand...
It would not align eventually! It would just make your pads bind excessively.


Here's just an illustration from service manual to supplement Jon's previous post and confirm that the pin is still important there. According to this pic my pre-facelift saloon appears to be non-KQ model.
I'm either way going to take everything apart again to refurbish both rear calipers, so I'll refit those pads as well.
God, how hard can it be to change brake pads? :D
 
Interesting, I have never done that. I would think it would align itself over time. I'm going to take note next time I do my pads.

Good find Jon
 
I might have a scan of my pads when I get chance but I have never had binding pads in the 8 years I've had the car and the pads last a fair few miles too.

Would be interested to see the position of the piston on full rewind, I can only ***ume its in the right position in the first place.

However that said do check the fitment of the pads as patent parts always need a little tweek :)
 
Sad to think that Alnug typed up that DIY thread 4 years ago, only for it to be ignored by some people :lol:

"First of all this is covered in the manual " ....

"This is how the notches should be in the caliper, note they need to be horizontal with the caliper for the pin at the back of the pad to fit in"



Anyway, the pads on the Tourer are a lot simpler, but I'd rather have the saloon arrangement, because the handbrake drum on the Tourer is a far worse thing to have to sort out, ***uming one is going to do the Tourer handbrake properly.

The technique for aligning the notches into the piston will be the same for all combined foot-brake/hand-brake calipers, so once it's mastered, it's not difficult. I remember cursing like mad the first time I did it on a French car about 25 years ago, after that it was a lot easier on other cars.
 
matsalka said:
It would not align eventually! It would just make your pads bind excessively.


Here's just an illustration from service manual to supplement Jon's previous post and confirm that the pin is still important there. According to this pic my pre-facelift saloon appears to be non-KQ model.
I'm either way going to take everything apart again to refurbish both rear calipers, so I'll refit those pads as well.
God, how hard can it be to change brake pads? :D
Click to expand...


You already had a service manual?
 
TypeR said:
Would be interested to see the position of the piston on full rewind, I can only ***ume its in the right position in the first place.
Click to expand...
In my (admittedly non-Honda) experience, normally when you rewind a caliper piston, when it fully retracts the internal thread actually disengages, resulting in the piston simply spinning freely (hence you are supposed to wind it back out a little to re-engage the thread). So it will end up wherever you stopped turning.
 
matsalka said:
Got one yesterday which finally includes model CN1. In fact there's also CL7, CL9, CM1, CM2 and CN2.
Click to expand...
Are they easy to buy in Estonia? Are they in English?

Quite a few members here in the UK would like to buy their own as well, so any info on a supplier would be appreciated!
 
Jon_G said:
I didn't think your DVD covered diesel models?
Click to expand...
no it doesn't, only CM2 and CL9, but for a several quid more the chap was selling DVDs that covered other models too

IIRC my DVD cost me £20


edit: crikey I just checked, it includes K20A6 engine too, so it's CM1, CM2, CL7, CL9, a genuine Honda DVD (if it's a copy then it's a damned good one) . £30 incl p&p
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top