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New motor - steering characteristics.

M

markquinton

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Location
Norwich
Car
Accord Ex 2.0 i-vtec
Hi All

Got the new car last night which is an 07 2.0 i-vtec automatic in ex trim. It has 79k and full honda service history with the last service having been undertaken only 400 miles ago. The car appears to have been very well looked after.

Today was my first chance to have a good drive of the car and the engine seems good and pickup is decent after 4k rpm.

However.....i am finding the steering quite disappointing. It feels vague, feedback is pretty poor and at the same time it seems quite heavy at very low speeds or stationary (more understandable). I can't quite work out whether it's a characteristic of the car, a problem with the steering or just soft sidewalls on the tyres as they are only 16 inch alloys and do feel soft. I am planning on upgrading to 18's anyway and will have 4 wheel alignment done then so that could cure the issue but just would appreciate the opinions of others who can confirm whether my description of the steering is accurate and to be expected.

Like i said the service has only just been done and they checked the steering and tyres at that point and all appeared visibly ok.

Have to admit to feeling a little disappointed if this is to be expected. It's more difficult because i've downgraded from my VRS and appreciate that it will not handle or steer the same.

Thanks

Mark
 
Your car's at that mileage where ball joints, control arm bushes and track rod ends will either have been recently replaced, or are the originals and will need doing soon.

I've recently replaced everything in the front end at once, and have a car that drives like new.
The steering's at least as good as anything else front wheel drive I've driven, but not exactly sporty.

Now it's significantly lighter than it was before.
The extra steering weight normally comes from under inflated tyres, binding brakes, or incorrect geometry (which would point at lower control arm bushes or ball joints)
If it badly wanders over white lines and feels really inaccurate, you need to check track rod ends too.

If it's been thoroughly checked and is all good (ie- it's new, or original and the car's only done motorway mileage) it may well just be the difference in the weight of the power steering, and the inaccurate from extra slip angle that comes from having taller tyre profiles.
 
Well seeing as the suspension components got the all clear on the recent service i can only hope it is the tyres, i did check the pressure and they were at 32psi as per the guidelines but feel very very soft to the touch. Guess i'll change the wheels/tyres and go from there.
 
Goodluckmonkey said:
Your car's at that mileage where ball joints, control arm bushes and track rod ends will either have been recently replaced, or are the originals and will need doing soon.

I've recently replaced everything in the front end at once, and have a car that drives like new.
The steering's at least as good as anything else front wheel drive I've driven, but not exactly sporty.

Now it's significantly lighter than it was before.
The extra steering weight normally comes from under inflated tyres, binding brakes, or incorrect geometry (which would point at lower control arm bushes or ball joints)
If it badly wanders over white lines and feels really inaccurate, you need to check track rod ends too.

If it's been thoroughly checked and is all good (ie- it's new, or original and the car's only done motorway mileage) it may well just be the difference in the weight of the power steering, and the inaccurate from extra slip angle that comes from having taller tyre profiles.
Click to expand...
mmm ... I wonder if that could be my problem. My steering wheel tends to veer to the left, but also to the right, sometimes both if I am doing a sharp turn.
 
Track rod ends or control arm bushes would be the things I'd check first.
 
Goodluckmonkey said:
Track rod ends or control arm bushes would be the things I'd check first.
Click to expand...
Would those normally be checked on a service?
 
They'd have to be totally knackered for them to notice them on a service.

They can be pretty worn and still go through an mot without being picked up.
 
Ah okay! I will have to get them checked at some point then. Might get them checked when I get the wheel alignment done. I ***ume that they might check that briefly whilst examining the wheels during alignment.
 
If the control arm bushes, ball joints or track rod ends are knackered they'll let you know because it'll be impossible for them to do the tracking properly.
 
Funnily enough I picked my 2008 2.0 i Vtec Auto EX up on Saturday. Drove it home over 100 miles. Dual carriageway , motorway etc. I noticed the same thing. It seems vague compared to my 56 plated Civic. But at the same time requires input to stop the wheel self centreing (is that a real word?).
The difference is mine has 33K miles so wear is not really the culprit. I think its the character of the car. Not unpleasant but noticeable.
Colin
 
Goodluckmonkey said:
If the control arm bushes, ball joints or track rod ends are knackered they'll let you know because it'll be impossible for them to do the tracking properly.
Click to expand...
**** THIS ****

A service/MOT is not the same as a Hunter 4-wheel alignment. The former is only a visual inspection for safety, the latter is far more precise.
 
Been out in it today and upped the front tyres to 38psi which helped but still something doesn't feel right. When turning it's like mid-turn the steering wheel feels disconnected and makes you want to take the corner slowly for risk of the front end sliding. I am also sure it's too heavy at slow speeds and stationary. Just vague in general!

I have won some fn2 alloys and tyres off ebay today so i'll get them fitted and then get the car looked at.
 
So i took the motor to ATS today (as it's near my work) and they had a look at the motor and checked the alignment. It was near perfect so they didn't charge me anything. They also took the car for a drive and as far as they are concerned the car drives as an accord does.

I am beginning to wonder if it's just me, which they partly did suggest as i've just changed from the vrs. I have to say if that's true then i honest believe the Accord's steering is poor. Quite heavy around the centre, doesn't return to centre quickly and almost does it in stages and little to no feedback when cornering at speed.

An equivilent Mazda 6 for instance has a much better steering setup.

I am enjoying the rest of the car so it's something i'll have to learn to put up with. I've got some 18's with tyres now and interested to see if that improves the handling/steering over the 16's with soft sidewalls.
 
What brand of tyres have you got, some brands are definitely terrible on the Accord.

Also, I've been following the thread, but I can't remember if anyone mentioned the lower control arm bushes, they can be on their way out. This applies to other bushes too.
 
Dunlops on the front at the minute but the second hand fn2 civic alloys i have bought have bridgestone's.

I don't know whether they checked many of the suspension parts today or simply checked whether the 4 wheels alignment was ok. Is it obvious when the control arm bushes need replacing?
 
The wheels on mine are 17" and I've always put Michelin Pilot Sport on the front.

The control arm bushes eventually become an MOT fail, but before that point, they can affect the steering. Same applies to other bushes. The suspension on the Accord, particularly the Saloon, is very good but it doesn't take much "slop" in the bushes to cause the feeling of "wander" in the steering.
 
As fredo said. My accord felt alot tighter in the corners when i changed the lower control arm(compliance) bushes and drop links . it's quite easy to see if the bushes are shot you can turn the steering wheel and see between the wheel and the front of the car.
 
freddofrog said:
.......it doesn't take much "slop" in the bushes to cause the feeling of "wander" in the steering.
Click to expand...
Funny you say that, mine wandered over cats eyes, and despite not feeling terrible, never felt tight as it should.
I swapped out everything on the front end, and it feels good now, but I wouldn't have really considered any single part excessively worn besides the LCA bushes.
The wandering was just the culmination of a small amount of play in a lot of parts.
 
i'm not completely sure that wandering describes my disappointment with the car. It's the heavyness, the needs to almost ***ist the steering wheel's return to centre and a lack of confidence it provides mid-turn as you appear to loose feedback. Whilst i appreciate the vrs was a completely different car, the steering was amazingly responsive without being light.

I have only changed vehicles to downgrade and save some cash so i'm sure it will be fine to live with until i am in a position to buy a newer vehicle again.
 
It's the difference between a regular road car and something with a sporty feel.

The modern consumer doesn't want such frivolities as driver feedback or responsiveness, they want lasers for headlamps, Spotify, and a wifi hotspot.

My legacy spec B had a 2.2 turn quick rack with a built in high speed steering damp circuit, bilsteins, alloy control arms, alloy panels to make a regular car a drivers car.

It was the last regular car that was a drivers car in my opinion. Those days are over now, even the 'hot hatches' nowadays feel remote as cars have to appeal to the lowest common denominator.

It's about numbers on a page, phone connectivity and led running lights. All fashion, no substance.

My wife still drives the same 2001 civic I bought her 9 years ago because she doesn't like the two newest shapes as they feel heavy to drive and have poor outward visibility.
 
I've never driven a proper racing car in real life, but I wouldn't expect the steering wheel to return to centre on a proper racing car. AFAIK, a racing car is like the "steering" on a WW2 fighter plane .... the "direction" is totally neutral, and the "steering" can feel heavy (I've only flown a WW2 fighter and a proper racing car on a simulator).

The only issue I've ever felt on the steering on my Accord is "wander" (aka tram-lining) which went with new LCA bushes and Michelin PS3's.

Like racing cars, the Accord has multi-link suspension. But IIRC there is one crucial difference between the 2.0 Accord and the 2.2/2.4 Accords . The former is EPS, and the latter are hydraulic.
 
Just spotted a thread from the past that describes one of the feelings i've been having when turning and going around roundabouts.

http://http://typeaccord.co.uk/forum/topic/2547-newbie-one-concern/page-2

Apparently it's the variable servo power steering that causes the steering wheel to briefly feel likes it's trying to pull in the opposite direction when turning.

Is this something that everyone has with their accord or is this caused by a problem of some sort?

Regards

Mark
 
Mark Quinton said:
Just spotted a thread from the past that describes one of the feelings i've been having when turning and going around roundabouts.

http://http://typeaccord.co.uk/forum/topic/2547-newbie-one-concern/page-2

Apparently it's the variable servo power steering that causes the steering wheel to briefly feel likes it's trying to pull in the opposite direction when turning.

Is this something that everyone has with their accord or is this caused by a problem of some sort?

Regards

Mark
Click to expand...
system seems to have added an extra http into the link, so it doesn't work

here it is without the extra http .....
http://typeaccord.co.uk/forum/topic/2547-newbie-one-concern/page-2




But I think your car has EPS ......so it's different from the hydraulic PS on the 2.4 and 2.2 which are in the link

Maybe your EPS needs recalibrating
 
Thanks for sorting the link. I thought mine had hydraulic power steering. I'll check in the morning.
 
Mark Quinton said:
Thanks for sorting the link. I thought mine had hydraulic power steering. I'll check in the morning.
Click to expand...
no problem, I think it was the system not you, because it happened again the first time I did the link (hence my edit which overlaps your post, I had to f-about to get the link to work).

With EPS there won't be a hydraulic pump on the auxiliary belt, so if your car has aircon, you'll see a compressor for aircon, plus an alternator, but no hydraulic pump, no piping, no reservoir
 
I am new to the forum having bought a 2006 petrol auto accord last month. Its done 72k miles and has good history. I love the car and its averaged 39 mpg over the last 600 miles. The steering feels horrible though. Heavy and very indirect. Like there is a big rubber band between me and the wheels. Its got very good pirelli cinturato tyres.
I need to get this fixed but its not something that I could do. Anybody know of an independent in the Birmingham vicinity that I could trust with this ?
 
I feel the same about the steering on my 2.0 sport, Ive never really been happy with it. It can feel heavy one moment then light and 'glassy' the next. Ive had 3 different makes of tyre on the front over the years and a hunter wheel alignment but nothing makes much difference so I just live with it. Also, none of the MOTs have picked up any suspension or steering wear/damage. I think it comes down to the roads you most often drive on. Around here there are a lot bumps and camber changes so I notice it every day but I'm sure if I lived some where with more even roads I wouldn't pick up on it so much. The steering on my Kangoo van on the other hand is consistant and has decent feed back :blink:
 
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