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Rear brake/handbrake issues continue!

-Rich-

-Rich-

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Location
Rickmansworth
Car
2.4 Tourer Auto
Ever since I bought the car nearly 3 years a go I've had nothing but trouble with them (this is the tourer) constantly binding and 6 months a go I replaced the calipers, slider pins and hoses. Everything has been fine until recently.

I keep getting a hot smell from the OSR, it's been there for a few weeks now. I stripped everything down yesterday and all the new parts seem fine. Brake pads aren't seized and move freely. I also smelt everything including the disc and the inside but couldn't find the same smell.

The hub does feel warm so I think the handbrake shoes could be rubbing again. I tried adjusting them before but got frustrated with so a garage did them for me.

I tried adjusting the shoes again but they're too loose now and the handbrake sits higher. After a drive I was still getting the smell so I'm abit stumped now. The cable is moving the shoes ok but one moves more than the other, is that right?

I'm starting to wonder if it is the brakes now but the only other thing is the bearing, which isn't making any noises or have any play.

Also anyone got tips on adjusting the handbrake shoes properly? If I adjust so the disc doesn't turn and then back off a few clicks I still get a rubbing noise when spinning it. If I adjust until the rubbing stops the handbrake goes too high and it doesn't hold as well.
 
It's not the bearings because hot bearings would cause the grease to run out, and a dry bearing would not last long.

Whilst I agree that the handbrake mechanism on the 7th gen tourer is a nightmare, the "hot" smell is usually due to the pads. The only pads to get are OEM, and even then, they tend to be a tight fit. This is the main issue with the foot-brake mechanism on the rear on the 7th gen tourer.
 
I didn't think it would be the bearing, I've had a couple go on other cars and I have no symptoms that it's failing.

It's only this one side though, I can't say I've noticed it on the other and I check both sides. The discs are Honda ones, don't have a lip and are above the minimum thickness the last time I measured them.

The pads had been changed by the previous owner (garage job) and I'm certain they're not genuine. They're definitely not saloon ones as I've read some people have fitted these by mistake.

There isn't much meat left on the pads now so maybe changing them should be the first thing I do. HH have them on ebay for £43.50, is that a good price?

I'll tighten the handbrake shoes again but is some rubbing acceptable? I noticed the other side has more resistance when spinning the wheel to the side I adjusted but I can't be sure if it's the shoes or pads.
 
-Rich- said:
6 months a go I replaced the calipers, slider pins and hoses.
Click to expand...
-Rich- said:
The pads had been changed by the previous owner (garage job) and I'm certain they're not genuine. They're definitely not saloon ones as I've read some people have fitted these by mistake.
Click to expand...
If you replaced the calipers, slider pins and hoses yourself, didn't you notice if the pads were a tight fit when you put them back ?

I've had my car since 2006 and I've done about 10k miles per year, and I've only ever replaced the read pads on the rear brakes. Most of the time, I park the car without the handbrake on (wherever possible) because it is such a terrible design.

The first time I replaced the rear pads, I bought some cheap ones from ebay and they were terrible, so ever since then I've always bought OEM (from HH). Even then, you do need to inspect the pads every six months because they get stuck in the calipers. I've even filed them down at bit (at the ends) which does help.
 
When I bought the car the rear pads were a very tight fit! Cleaning the brakes was the first thing I did after reading on here how they always seize on the tourer. Like you I filed the ends so they were a nice fit.

I've cleaned the carriers at least 3 times since then but I changed the calipers when a piston seized on one side. I just did the lot for peace of mind. They have been fine for 6 months since then and the pads still moved freely when I cleaned them again on Thursday.

I'll get some genuine pads then, it sounds like they might be half the problem. The handbrake is bad, I had the same setup on a Corolla and it was a nightmare. I don't know why Honda didn't just have it operating off the caliper.

edgeoftime said:
How many clicks are you aiming for?
Click to expand...
On the shoes? I didn't count, just made them hold the disc and then backed off until the rubbing stopped.
 
I'm having one or two issues with my brake shoes, I've adjusted them to get through the winter, but I'm changing them next year as they have worn low.

The way I did it rightly or wrongly was to back them off at the hub so they don't bind, but do lock with about the same number of clicks, and then you nip up the cable at the bottom of the handbrake after removing the centre console.

The handbook says 8-10 clicks is the range to aim for.
 
Yes I had mine done at a garage and the, fitter? set the brakes shoes so the hanbrake handle only came up three clicks, I burned them out in less than 50 miles, went back and showed him how to do it, This was on my 7th gen diesel tourer.
 
Do any of you slacken the cable off at the handbrake lever first?

I think it was on 7-8 clicks before but is now higher! I'll have to reset the adjusters on both sides to zero clicks I think and then do them equal. On a hill when applying the handbrake now the car lurches slightly to the side.
 
I take it we are talking hand brake that is a drum inside the disc? if so then leave the lever/cable alone, chock the front wheels jack up the rear, remove wheels then remove the rubber bung in the hub, turn drum slowly to reveal the adjusting wheel, back the pads off with screw driver and revolve the drum there should be no drag or noise, then set the handbrake lever to 5/6 clicks and revolve the drum again if it is locked and will not turn then adjust the star wheel in the drum until it is just scraping, do the same both sides, Then pull the lever up 2 more clicks and check to see if the drum is revolving, if it is then go back to 5/6 clicks on the lever and and lock the drum via the star wheel. Let the lever off and check for free rotation both sides if you have it then that is job done, 5/6 clicks should hold you, but an extra two will make sure you are held. If one side is freer then nip up the cable for that side. Having done that with the wheels refitted and the handbrake lever off there should be no drag or scraping. Now set the handbrake lever to 5/6 clicks and recheck the wheels for movement, if locked job a good one, let off lever and revolve again no noise or scraping? then that is it. Now pump the brake pedal to reposition the pads, if the resistance has returned then the calliper slide pins need cleaning and refitting, also check the bearing edges of the pads these are sometimes thick with paint if so file them down a bit. I know it sounds like a rigmarole but it's the only way, in the olden days the wheels had holes matching the adjuster so that it could be left on and made the job easier, what price progress. LOL
 
Cheers, I'll try that way and see if it works. I tend to remove the calipers as well just to make sure the pads aren't causing any rubbing noises.

Another problem I've had is I'll adjust the shoes until the rubbing stops, apply the handbrake lever and when I release it the rubbing is back! That implies the shoes aren't releasing properly but with the disc off they seem to move freely. When this happens I back the shoes off again so end up doing it too much like I did this time.
 
I got around to looking at this yesterday.

I took the car out for a 20 minute drive to get the brakes hot, parked on the drive and jacked it up. By the time I had got the wheel off the smell had gone! I could find no sign of it on the disc, pads or caliper! I started looking around the disc and at the bottom noticed the backing plate/guard had rusted at the bottom and part of it has come away. I filed it down and bent it back, which also stopped a rubbing noise I was getting, which I thought was the handbrake shoes! I've not driven the car yet but I ***ume rusty metal on rusty metal will make a weird smell? If it does go and comes back I'll have to get the dremel out and cut that section away.

post-438-0-86740500-1444984857.jpg


So hopefully I've found the source of the smell but I checked the pistons anyway and they pushed in and out very easily - no problems there. I didn't really need to clean anything up on the carrier as I've done it so many times before so just gave it a wipe over ready for the new pads. I filed the edges, put some lube on them and fitted - then an issue became apparent!

The friction material on the new genuine pads are larger than the pattern ones that were on there, so where the rust has formed the pad is touching it!

post-438-0-70551700-1444984860.jpg


post-438-0-84224900-1444984863.jpg


post-438-0-42326700-1444984865.jpg


I have been told by a mechanic mate that as the discs have no lip the pads should grind the rust off fairly soon. I did sand some of it off yesterday so it was smoother and the pads sit flush (hopefully) against the discs. As these are genuine I didn't want to replace them as they're not on the minimum thickness yet and Honda discs are expensive. If I need to replace them I'll probably go for Delphi ones, I used these on the front and they're really good.

There were also 2 shims for the rear pad, I put the silver one on first and then the black one - is that right?

post-438-0-41440300-1444984862.jpg


I adjusted the handbrake shoes on the side with the smell as well, which I found easier without that other rubbing noise. I still need to test it but hopefully it's fine as I have the MOT in a week or 2. Once I've got a pass I'll spend longer adjusting both sides properly.

BTW - I paid £33.50 delivered for the pads from HH, £10 cheaper than their ebay listing!
 
How hot do your disc hubs get? I've adjusted the handbrake shoes and I still get a little rubbing but if I slacken them any more the handbrake doesn't work very well. It holds on a very steep hill at 8 clicks.

After a run the hubs are fairly warm, I wouldn't say hot as I can hold my finger on them for about 10 seconds and then it starts burning!
 
freddofrog said:
I've had my car since 2006 and I've done about 10k miles per year, and I've only ever replaced the read pads on the rear brakes. Most of the time, I park the car without the handbrake on (wherever possible) because it is such a terrible design.
Click to expand...
Does anyone else park with handbrake OFF (especially overnight),
and does it help to prevent the rear calipers seizing?
 
Another little trick, drive with handbrake on for a short distance, you will get a beep telling you to let it off but by doing this you will bed the shoes down and remove any dust/carp from the surface, thus improving their performance.
 
thedooor said:
Does anyone else park with handbrake OFF (especially overnight),
and does it help to prevent the rear calipers seizing?
Click to expand...
On the 7th gen Accord, it depends on whether the car is Saloon or Tourer. On the latter, the handbrake is a separate drum-brake mechanism in the rear disc, and the design is terrible. The reason for me leaving the handbrake off (wherever possible) is to prevent the shoes from binding onto the drum. however, there is always the possibility of some slight binding in the pads or in the piston on the foot-brake caliper, and leaving the handbrake off on the Tourer will not affect that. I have no idea what effect it will have on the Saloon, which has an integral handbrake mechanism in the main foot-brake caliper, it might help on that too ?
 
I have a saloon, so maybe I'm lucky.... :)

Not sure why they 2 different braking systems for the saloon and tourer.
Don't make sense.
 
It's a stupid setup on the tourer, had it before on my Corolla and it's so frustrating trying to set them correctly.

The car passed the MOT and the handbrake is holding but I'm still getting a warm smell now and again but I've done all I can now. I'll just keep an eye on it and see if it gets any worse.
 
I will lay odds that it is not down to to the handbrake, on the tourer. The calipers are the trouble makers and the hoses also collapse. Another error is that people try to get a 3 click lever you need at least 6/7. Also looking at the state of those disc's I reckon putting new pads on is a waste of time.
 
It's got new calipers, hoses, slider pins and fresh fluid so none of those. Smell was there with the old pads too so not those neither. Discs are fine, just a little rust ring, they're above minimum thickness and it's passed the MOT. It's not a brake binding smell, I know what that smells like hence I put new calipers on! lol

I've cleaned and regreased everything three times now. The pins and piston all move freely as well.

Handbrake holds on 8 clicks, handbook says 8-10 and the cable moves the shoes ok so I'm stumped. Just gonna keep an eye on it!
 
I would've layed money down on the caliper/brake hose being the problem and the culprit of the burning smell.

It plagued me for 2 years until I bit the bullet and renewed the hoses, calipers and pads in 1 go. That was back in February, so far all is well.
 
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