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Rear caliper issues again!

K

Kapitain

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Location
Bedfordshire
Car
2.2 Exec tourer
Hi all,

Just wondering what else I can try and thought I'd ask the experts... rear near side caliper was sticking generating alot of heat. I was getting uneven wear in the pad on that side (Like the caliper was not pulling straight)... Replaced pads but didn't last long before I was cooking discs again. I replaced discs, pads and caliper which improved it. Now a just over 10 000miles have passed and all seemed to be fine until I noticed a squeek every time I turned right this afternoon.... had a quick look and my pads are not wearing evenly...

Rear near side:
c569b1db-c674-4d8e-bb22-696f8b0b36d3_zpsaae87a3b.jpg


Rear off side:
20130907_185158_zps029f29f2.jpg


Any thoughts would be most welcome?
 
Are the pads free to move in the carrier? I has this on my tourer and basically the pads weren't Free moving back after braking. Took out the carrier and cleaned and greased the carrier
 
Also a good idea to file away the paint off the pads before fitting, at the point were they touch the carrier, did you replace the brake hoses at the same time? they could be the culprits.
 
Thanks for the thoughts...

When I replaced the caliper I did quite a bit of flushing to check if there was any debris coming from the rubber hose because I read on here that sometimes they could be the cause but it came out clean (Not sure if that is 100% though) Maybe worth checking again?

Jayok, funny you should say that I did file them by hand when I put them in, I was thinking maybe run them over the grinding wheel just in case. But then why only on the near side? I did clean up the carriers on both sides and put some grease on them too.

What grease should I use on the carriers? I'll have to check what I used (can't remember now - was a few months ago)

I've just got back, :( I think I'm gonna whip it off and have another look...

I'll let you all know...
 
Normal guy said:
Jayok, funny you should say that I did file them by hand when I put them in, I was thinking maybe run them over the grinding wheel just in case. But then why only on the near side? I did clean up the carriers on both sides and put some grease on them too.

What grease should I use on the carriers? I'll have to check what I used (can't remember now - was a few months ago)
Click to expand...


Yep, I'd to grind them out with a steel brush, took off loads of rust! Then I painted them lightly to prevent rust occurring again. For grease, I just use some copper grease, but make sure that it doesn't go anywhere near the friction surface. A tiny amount will do! Volia.

Re the near side only, I dunno, but I've noticed, it seem to get more debris from the roads - probably due to the camber of the roads and dirt!
 
Cheers Jason. Yep thats what I used.

Just checked pads appear to be moving freely on carriers but I noticed something else... I'm not sure about this one but i'll ask anyway.

Worn bearing?!?... The reason is this: wheel off disc rotates by hand fine (brakes not binding much) except if I rock it forward and reverse I get a knocking sound?!? Then when I put the wheel back on a spin it in the air I get that squeeking sound again? Possibly the weight of the wheel causing a slight angle change? I then dropped the car and rocked it back and forth... again I get the squeek?

Any body understand this one?
 
Normal guy said:
Worn bearing?!?... The reason is this: wheel off disc rotates by hand fine (brakes not binding much) except if I rock it forward and reverse I get a knocking sound?!? Then when I put the wheel back on a spin it in the air I get that squeeking sound again? Possibly the weight of the wheel causing a slight angle change? I then dropped the car and rocked it back and forth... again I get the squeek?

Any body understand this one?
Click to expand...

Well there definitely shouldn't be a knocking sound - Can you take a video and upload it?

Is there any other suspension play?
 
jayok said:
Well there definitely shouldn't be a knocking sound - Can you take a video and upload it?

Is there any other suspension play?
Click to expand...

How can I check for suspension play? I bounced up and down (like a baboon hanging out the rear near side door :p ) But didn't hear anything, I really need someone else to do the bouncing perhaps.

Okay well I'll try take a video tomorrow if its light enough when I get home.
 
Normal guy said:
How can I check for suspension play? I bounced up and down (like a baboon hanging out the rear near side door :p ) But didn't hear anything, I really need someone else to do the bouncing perhaps.
Click to expand...

The baboon image presents a funny mental picture! :) Normally you would check for play using a pry-bar. Not sure if you've access to one.

Just on the squeaking, do you get any knocking sound when turning?? Is there noticeable play in the wheel when jacked up (i.e. may be is it just the bearings)
 
jayok said:
The baboon image presents a funny mental picture! :) Normally you would check for play using a pry-bar. Not sure if you've access to one.

Just on the squeaking, do you get any knocking sound when turning?? Is there noticeable play in the wheel when jacked up (i.e. may be is it just the bearings)
Click to expand...

Aaaah now there is a good idea :blush: a pry-bar...just wish I thought of it... I'll have a look. Clearly this is not my day job.
 
Hello again, sorry about the delay here is a clip of the squeek... anyone else think its the bearing? The squeek as changed slightly it now only really sounds when reversing but you can hear it when driving but only if the back window is open... its a slight squeek more of a binding sound.

Holding the wheel stationary and trying to rock it (checking for bearing play) I cant feel any play but as you can see in the video there must be. It does also seem to only squeek in this position. Hope the video works.

video
 
I think you would hear the bearing if it was worn, I know this is a long shot but I had similar and I found a small granite pebble lying in the caliper
 
edgeoftime said:
I think you would hear the bearing if it was worn, I know this is a long shot but I had similar and I found a small granite pebble lying in the caliper
Click to expand...

Hi John, Interesting.
I have replaced this caliper but that was about 8ooo miles ago... if I dont have anything else I could give it a try but I know replacing seals are a mission... I made that mistake once before! Thanks for the thought.
 
Ok, that knocking sound is relatively normal - in so far as I have that on mine. This is play in the gear-linkage into the box. Now, it's difficult to say how much play you actually have and may be you've a worn inner shaft-bearing or similar.

But for the squeaking... well give the pitch of the sound it does sound like something is hitting the disc guard/shield on the rear. As a test, if you take off the caliper, remove the pads and re-fit the caliper and wheel (don't touch the brake pedal). Is the squeaking still there?? It's very pronounced.

Does the whole strut move? Did you try and pry the UCA as well as the LCA?
 
Seems like a bearing to me through a process of elimination (pads, discs, caliper). Spins silently on its own, then a little load applied causes a squeal?


In the 'knock' video, is the caliper still on (looks like its reflected in the disc)? Can you remove the caliper, tie it up out the way and see if it knocks. Can you then replace the wheel and try and replicate the test from the 'squeal' video with the caliper still tied up.

Does this vid help any?

 
jayok said:
Ok, that knocking sound is relatively normal - in so far as I have that on mine. This is play in the gear-linkage into the box. Now, it's difficult to say how much play you actually have and may be you've a worn inner shaft-bearing or similar.

But for the squeaking... well give the pitch of the sound it does sound like something is hitting the disc guard/shield on the rear. As a test, if you take off the caliper, remove the pads and re-fit the caliper and wheel (don't touch the brake pedal). Is the squeaking still there?? It's very pronounced.

Does the whole strut move? Did you try and pry the UCA as well as the LCA?
Click to expand...

Gear linkage? Please forgive my ignorance if I'm wrong but this play is on the near side rear...no drive on that wheel. Is this play still normal?

No I havent done any prying yet. Im thinking more and more that its the bearing...

Would it also make sense that this is the wheel that I replaced the caliper on and I know the discs were getting red hot... If you see a slight red glow that usually means its around the 550­­°C mark so this could potentially have weakened the bearing?
 
AndyB1976 said:
Seems like a bearing to me through a process of elimination (pads, discs, caliper). Spins silently on its own, then a little load applied causes a squeal?


In the 'knock' video, is the caliper still on (looks like its reflected in the disc)? Can you remove the caliper, tie it up out the way and see if it knocks. Can you then replace the wheel and try and replicate the test from the 'squeal' video with the caliper still tied up.

Does this vid help any?

Click to expand...

Hi Andy,

Yes the caliper is still on... I will remove the caliper and try the test again... Will let you know how I get on...

Yes that video has given me some confidence to tackel this on my own, cheers. Doesn't look too bad to replace. :)
 
Normal guy said:
Gear linkage? Please forgive my ignorance if I'm wrong but this play is on the near side rear...no drive on that wheel. Is this play still normal?

No I havent done any prying yet. Im thinking more and more that its the bearing...

Would it also make sense that this is the wheel that I replaced the caliper on and I know the discs were getting red hot... If you see a slight red glow that usually means its around the 550­­°C mark so this could potentially have weakened the bearing?
Click to expand...
a

Ok, it's not your ignorance it's me on my stupid pills! I've not idea why I had it in my head it was the front.

Right so the rear setup of the tourer is very straightforward and in summary it's more than likely the bearing. The squeak are hearing is the bearing allowing movement in the axis of rotation and allowing the rotor (disc) to rub off the guard. It's a common enough failure for the bearing to go on the rear of the tourer. The play you are getting on the hub alone video is exasperated by the weight of the wheel thus allowing excess movement. Also you are only getting the squeaking at a particular turn point, hence one side of the bearing has probably failed.
 
jayok said:
a

Ok, it's not your ignorance it's me on my stupid pills! I've not idea why I had it in my head it was the front.

Right so the rear setup of the tourer is very straightforward and in summary it's more than likely the bearing. The squeak are hearing is the bearing allowing movement in the axis of rotation and allowing the rotor (disc) to rub off the guard. It's a common enough failure for the bearing to go on the rear of the tourer. The play you are getting on the hub alone video is exasperated by the weight of the wheel thus allowing excess movement. Also you are only getting the squeaking at a particular turn point, hence one side of the bearing has probably failed.
Click to expand...

Aaah that just confirms it again... I was speaking to a mechanical engineer at work about it too and he said the same thing! Cheers...

Now what make bearing should I go for? Too scared to ask Honda for a price for the part... :unsure:

Any suggestions?
 
The bearing is integrated into the hub are a single component from Honda, see part #4 here

http://www.lingshondaparts.com/honda_car_parts_selection_pfk.php?block_01=17SED01&block_02=B__1910&block_03=533

If you ring up Holcroft Honda mention that you're a member here you'll get a discount on the part (circa £130)

TBH you can get knock off components, but I'm not sure if it's worth the risk, etc. I believe there's one from Lucas, etc. but not sure on prices.
 
Only £69.20 for the Lucas part... http://www.carparts4less.co.uk/cp4l/c/Honda_Accord_2.2_2005/p/car-parts/car-transmission/transmission-parts/wheel-bearing-and-wheel-hub/?628600991&1&8aaadceaf5f09b6fe12497f53e30bf1122098c94&000370 (using the promo code 'cp10less'). For those who aren't aware, Car Parts 4 Less are the same company as Euro Car Parts but usually a fair bit cheaper. I've bought from them many times recently and can strongly recommend them. But I've no idea about how good the Lucas bearing is, nor how cheaply HH would sell a 'genuine' one to TA members... I normally consider it madness to buy spares from a dealer (as you usually pay a lot more for a part that may be of a poorer standard to aftermarket), but we do often get excellent deals with HH.
 
Okay here is an update...

I had the caliper off and I couldn't get it to squeak. I then looked at the caliper / pad alignment and wear... I know I have different wear fron off-side to near-side but I looked again and its also wearing in a wedge shape.
20130925_104954_zpsf42d7451.jpg


So I checked the pads out and found this...
20130928_233252_zps44c1e0cb.jpg


Now I don't know if these are incorrect pads or fitted incorrectly but I know its not right. I don't think they are the correct pads personally. They shouldn't have the extra pip in the centre. And as you can see that is what the piston was pushing against.
I was surprised that the brakes wern't getting hot as it looks like they will jam and not release properly. So I checked the calliper and it still seemed to travel in and out without any visible problems. I also checked the A and B pins which seem to be worn slightly. See pic below.
20130928_233625_zps00cfbfef.jpg


So I replaced the pins, again with Honda ones ;) So I have left the bearing as is for now and see how I get on. So far 60ish miles and no problems.

I hope this helps anyone else with these symptoms.
 
You have pads for a saloon fitted to your tourer!!!

Grind/file the pin off that interferes with the caliper piston and it'll be OK... I've been sold the wrong pads before and it was easier to grind the pin off than take the pads back.
 
Jon_G said:
You have pads for a saloon fitted to your tourer!!!

Grind/file the pin off that interferes with the caliper piston and it'll be OK... I've been sold the wrong pads before and it was easier to grind the pin off than take the pads back.
Click to expand...
Actually, buying new (tourer!) rear pads would be your best option, seeing as how you appear to already have a very significant uneven wear problem.

Nevertheless, my advice stands in regard to new pads... if you find you have saloon pads and it's too troublesome to return them, simply grind off the extra pin and they'll fit fine.
 
Well at least you've gotten to the bottom of it. But to echo what Jon said I'd replace the pads ASAP!
 
And the funny thing... these pads were replaced by a garage! So when I did it myself I compared the pads to what was on the car at the time and stupidly thought that was right... Oh dear.

Well pads replaced (with the correct ones now) and did a full service too... man that fuel filter was a pig! But the other service forums helped me out there.

Thank you all for your help! Much appreciated.
 
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