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Noisy or Rattling timing chain

It was diagnosed by 3 garages, 1 x Honda and 2 x indys. None of them used any equipment to diagnose and just went by the listening to the sound coming from the engine. Should Honda have used certain testing equipment to specifically identify a dodgey chain?

I'll get a vid up later of the engine running.
 
Engine video attached. Sound isn't great due to ***** phone and wind noise.

http://flic.kr/p/b5mX5e
 
kkelly77 said:
It was diagnosed by 3 garages, 1 x Honda and 2 x indys. None of them used any equipment to diagnose and just went by the listening to the sound coming from the engine. Should Honda have used certain testing equipment to specifically identify a dodgey chain?

I'll get a vid up later of the engine running.
Click to expand...

Yes - when mine went in to Honda it was diagnosed by THREE local garages as chain from the noise & previous I-CTDI history, but from my mileage and all HSH I thought it was best checked by Honda. They had a device similar to what doctors used to use to listen to your pulse / heart beat with a metal end. This was placed on the timing chain, alternator, alternator tensioner (& bearing) etc to look for noises. I also asked for a report from the technician in which he wrote the bearing and alternator tensioner were noisy and there was very little noise from the chain
 
I spoke to a technician from another Honda dealership, querying the problem I'm having. He said if the timing chain was replaced then it has to be the oil pump chain. Approx 10 hrs labour plus cost of parts.

Does this sound right?
 
I visited a different Honda garage today (not the one that initially diagnosed a faulty timing chain).

They suggested the noise could be either the oil pump chain or something that runs on the belt on the LHS of the engine i.e. power steering pump, alternator, aircon compressor. To fault find they suggested removing the belt and see if the noise is still there. With the belt off:

No noise = issue with something that runs off the belt/pulley ***embly

Noise = issue with oil pump chain.

Does anyone have any info with regards how to remove/re-fit the belt? Is there just a tensioner with a 14mm bolt? Would this need to be torqued when refitting or just until the belt is tight? Thanks.
 
To diagnose this noise, get a metal tube or old pipe and hold it against the cam chain cover and have a good listen. That's how i've seen Honda do it.
 
Had the car with the local mechanic today. Took the belt off the pulley ***embly. It appears the "noise" is from the tensioner pulley and therefore my timing chain didn't need to be replaced at all. :(

Will be going to local Honda garage tomorrow to price a new pulley. Hopefully it won't cost the earth. I've sunk enough cash into my car as it is.
 
I have noticed the timing chain on our iCTDi Tourer has started to get noisy on cold start recently

2005 FHSH, 80k miles. Distinctive 'chainy' noise listening at OSF wheel area.

The car has been listened to by my local main agent dealer (when warm) & they couldn't here anything out of the ordinary. They want to listen again when cold- it's just gonna be a bit of hassle

Thing is as a (soon to be) licenced aircraft engineer my techie ear is more sensitive than most- & I'm sure the level of general noise (if not a rattle) indicates a level of wear.

I have compared my car to my brothers 06 civic iCTDi (106k) & his chain is silent in comparison

I have made a short video from cold start- would appreciate any 'expert' opinion please. I think it's noisy!
Accord iCTDi noisy timing chain??
 
chrismc said:
I have noticed the timing chain on our iCTDi Tourer has started to get noisy on cold start recently

2005 FHSH, 80k miles. Distinctive 'chainy' noise listening at OSF wheel area.

The car has been listened to by my local main agent dealer (when warm) & they couldn't here anything out of the ordinary. They want to listen again when cold- it's just gonna be a bit of hassle

Thing is as a (soon to be) licenced aircraft engineer my techie ear is more sensitive than most- & I'm sure the level of general noise (if not a rattle) indicates a level of wear.

I have compared my car to my brothers 06 civic iCTDi (106k) & his chain is silent in comparison

I have made a short video from cold start- would appreciate any 'expert' opinion please. I think it's noisy!
Accord iCTDi noisy timing chain??
Click to expand...

I'm no expert but that to me sounds fine. It's definitely quieter than my car.
 
kkelly77 said:
Had the car with the local mechanic today. Took the belt off the pulley ***embly. It appears the "noise" is from the tensioner pulley and therefore my timing chain didn't need to be replaced at all. :(

Will be going to local Honda garage tomorrow to price a new pulley. Hopefully it won't cost the earth. I've sunk enough cash into my car as it is.
Click to expand...


If its your aux idler pulley, theirs a short revised belt that does away with the pulley totally.
 
kkelly77 said:
I'm no expert but that to me sounds fine. It's definitely quieter than my car.
Click to expand...

Quieter than your 'chain' specifically or just your noise- as it seems your issue is now aux tensioner related?

Can't really compare apples with pears of course...
 
chrismc said:
Quieter than your 'chain' specifically or just your noise- as it seems your issue is now aux tensioner related?

Can't really compare apples with pears of course...
Click to expand...

Just compared to the noise of my car. Is it possible the noise you're hearing is from something else besides the chain? I'd just hate to think of anyone going down the timing chain replacement road when they don't have to.
 
kkelly77 said:
Have you any details on this?
Click to expand...


http://typeaccord.co.uk/forum/topic/1683-diy-alternator-change/

May give you some idea. The original belt puts added strain on the idler pulley and alternator.
 
kkelly77 said:
Just compared to the noise of my car. Is it possible the noise you're hearing is from something else besides the chain? I'd just hate to think of anyone going down the timing chain replacement road when they don't have to.
Click to expand...

I guess it could be- but the noise I can hear sounds distinctly like a chain to me.

Fortunately, I have a year left of my 2yr Hondacare warranty so I won't be shelling out- just as well given the car has already had a clutch, manifold & VSA modulator under warranty.

The timing chain & boot lift actuator are the only 2 items left to complete a full house of 'common' faults. :unsure:

I remember the days back in the late 80's/early 90's when Hondas really were bombproof. Not any more sadly!
 
NOT HAPPY!!!
Found this too late! My 04 Cdti died this morning ! oil light came on for about 3 secs followed by engine management light and death, had to leave the car down a side road and walk 4 miles home.
after reading all this I rang HH they apparently know nothing never heard of such a warranty and wouldn't, would have to ring my dealer. SO just rang my first local Dealer, guess what "oh never heard of that sir!" "forums are nothing to do with Honda and their info is not correct!" however I argued the fact and am awaiting a phone call form the manager as he is away at a funeral.
So I rang the next dealer which is in the next town. They also have no idea about this warranty and have never had any problems with timing chain. they said id have to book in spend X amount for them to look at it.
I am not happy!
 
Greeny said:
NOT HAPPY!!!
Found this too late! My 04 Cdti died this morning ! oil light came on for about 3 secs followed by engine management light and death, had to leave the car down a side road and walk 4 miles home.
after reading all this I rang HH they apparently know nothing never heard of such a warranty and wouldn't, would have to ring my dealer. SO just rang my first local Dealer, guess what "oh never heard of that sir!" "forums are nothing to do with Honda and their info is not correct!" however I argued the fact and am awaiting a phone call form the manager as he is away at a funeral.
So I rang the next dealer which is in the next town. They also have no idea about this warranty and have never had any problems with timing chain. they said id have to book in spend X amount for them to look at it.
I am not happy!
Click to expand...


Call Honda UK and take it up with them.

Did you buy your car from a dealer.?? Has it got history and do you have any warranty with it. You will find that with a lot of dealers don't know about warranty work. i found this when i asked about the condensation in my headlights and was met with a look of an idiot by two dealers. Both swore that it was an internet legend until i produced a TSB from Honda i found on line.
 
Thanks for the reply. I rang Honda UK first there are the ones who told me I need Honda Happiness because they are the ones who deal with warranty etc and put me through.
I didn't by form a dealer no it was a private sale only had it about 6 months. FSH. with to old for any warranty.

15 mins ago had a call back from the first dealer who said as it was registered on the 4th of April 2004 its now out of the extended warranty any way! as it will be 8 years old in April.

So got to wait for me old man to finish work so he can sit in the car and call his AA cover in to at least get the car back to mine. Then I don't, break it and sell. or sell as none runner not sure how much ill get, Or burn the ****** thing and claim. Im at my wits end! I need it for work! had to cancel tonight's

will have to buy a couple of hundred pound shed.
 
First of all you need to make sure it is definitely the timing chain and if it is speak to Honda UK again. It is not unheard of for Honda to contribute to or carry out, out of warranty work. Is the History all Honda dealer.?? If so you can argue that a rattling chain should have been picked up on its service if it is fairly recent.
failing that you could drop a second hand engine in it. i replaced an engine in an old Alfa Romeo 156 i had. i got an engine from Ebay for £100 and it cost £200 to get it fitted. A 3 to £400 outlay is the price of a banger and you get to keep an otherwise decent car.



I found this post on the Civic forum.

My car has just returned from a 137500 mile service where they have discovered this fault and is being returned to the garage today. My car is a 54 plate CDTI Accord. Apparently this part is cvered by warranty only on the first 125000 or 7 years. Normally this part would cost around £3000 although Hondas contribution has bought it down to £1000- £1100.
I have found my dealership Aylesbury Honda to be very efficient & fair having previously negotiated a 50% contribution with Honda on a steering rack bringing the cost down to £700 from £1400. Unbelieveably this then needed to be replaced again as a second steering rack was cracked. this time Honda replaced it free of charge under a 12 month warranty. Apparently Honda have agreed to contribute as I have always had the car religiously serviced by a Honda dealership every 12500 miles. From my perspective I need to keep the car on the road for another 137500 miles or 4.5 years.
 
yeah when i get it back ill have a look. but these cars are very expensive to fix, just aint got the money in the middle of moving house. second engine for these i cant see being 400 quid lol thats if i can find one at all.
don't know what to do right now,
 
Sorry to hear your troubles, Its worth pushing HUK for a goodwill if it has a full honda history. It could have been the oil pickup chain that snapped and not the timing chain as I believe. Either way it'll cost a few quid to fix depending on what chain snapped and how much damage it caused. A used engine is a option too, hope it works out for you.
 
Yeah to be honest that was my first thought well I actually thought oil pump, there was noise when the lights came on but heaters were on full chat and radio was on too so couldn't make out what type of noise it was. there is no oil leaking out any were and still has oil in. but just wont start just whizzes over.

Can you get to these chains easily? is there any how to's on here, links?

thanks for your help guys, had a few cuppa's chilling out now lol
 
get it checked before making any rash decisions and if its a new engine job just contact someone who is breaking an Accord privately on Ebay about the engine. You will be surprised what you can get.

Like i said earlier i got an engine for £100. when all the other breakers yards etc wanted nearly a grand.
 
right its back and had a look over, either the oil pick up or timing chain has snapped, can see with the oil cap off. there was also 2 codes forgot the code numbers. but one was cam position sensor and the other was some thing to do with low fuel rail pressure. which is all line with a snapped chain.
ill have a look for an engine but the ones ive seen so far are 2k, which is almost more that the car is worth.

so what do you guys think this is worth sold as a whole car in the condition. body work is fine interior is mint etc its just this chain. oh and maybe valves?? I don't know?
 
Greeny said:
right its back and had a look over, either the oil pick up or timing chain has snapped, can see with the oil cap off. there was also 2 codes forgot the code numbers. but one was cam position sensor and the other was some thing to do with low fuel rail pressure. which is all line with a snapped chain.
ill have a look for an engine but the ones ive seen so far are 2k, which is almost more that the car is worth.

so what do you guys think this is worth sold as a whole car in the condition. body work is fine interior is mint etc its just this chain. oh and maybe valves?? I don't know?
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mate, You would be nuts to pay 1-2k for a second hand engine. you are not looking at the right places. Try breakers or part finder etc.

Give these guys a ring.
http://www.silverlake.co.uk/breakers/

http://www.trents.co.uk/

Or try private breakers on Ebay.
 
Definitely shop around.

A mate has just had the bottom end go on his S4.

He was quoted 2k for a rebuild. Phoned around, got a breaker on Ebay who agreed to 750 for the engine, turbos, ecu - everybody else wanted 1k for the bottom end.

He negotiated 650 over the phone if he went to Coventry that evening to see it running in the car.

Negotiated it down when he got there to 550. Engine to be pulled this weekend and palleted up.

He already has two larger turbos on the old engine, these will be fitted to the new engine. The new ones should fetch 300 on ebay.

Fingers crossed it will cost 750 all in for engine and fitting.
 
Right ok ill try those links thank you! :) will shop around and see i guess it will do no harm :)
 
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Honda-Civic-Sport-I-CTDI-07-engine-/250981443425?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item3a6fa8e761

Offer him £300
 
wow great find. would you replace the chain and tensioner (valves if needed) on mine or you my crank and shells for that engine?
 
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