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2.4 type s tourer boot lid

adam123

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Accord 2.4 Type s
Well I picked my lovely tourer up today but unfortunately the boot doesn't open on the fob. It tries but then fails, it closes fine though.
I've a had read through and seen one instance where the strut had fallen off and some where the gas struts need replacing. What's more likely? Car has done 110k and is 2003. It has also been stood for a while? Maybe this has made a difference. Any help would be much appreciated
 
Easiest was to check is to open the boot fully (i.e. if the boot lid is parallel to the ground), hold it up with your hand, let go an see does it drop a few inches. If it does the struts are bad (common enough given the age)
 
Thanks for that just checked and the boot holds open perfect. So it's not the gas struts? Any other ideas before I go looking? Could it have anything to do with the car standing for a good while?
 
I've done an awful lot of reading and found a few people have had the same problem but nobody has mentioned what solved there's just potential fixes. Think I'll start with cleaning the sensors and greasing the mechanism. Is realigning the boot look a diy job?
 
adam123 said:
I've done an awful lot of reading and found a few people have had the same problem but nobody has mentioned what solved there's just potential fixes. Think I'll start with cleaning the sensors and greasing the mechanism. Is realigning the boot look a diy job?
Without using an HDS it's difficult to know where the problem lies. If it won't pull itself from the outset it's nothing to do with the struts (and as you say, your tailgate stays up anyway).

Depending on how far it gets in the opening sequence it could be any of
1. fault in the closer mechanism (a sensor or a wiring or a motor fault)
2. fault in a side sensor (but I think they are only used during closing, not during opening)
3. main power motor failing
4. ram/link between motor and tailgate needs greasing

If you look in the other link that's mentioned in the link in #4, most of the info is there (but ignore my fault-finding part in the other link because that is superceded by the info from the HDS parts in the #4 link)

If yours does not even open at all on the keyfob, try pressing the keyfob at the same time as pulling the handle and see if it then starts to pull open. If that works then it's 1 above. If that does not work then it's likely to be 3 above.

edit: words scrubbed here, I've put it as new post instead
 
I've just re-read your initial post, and you say "It tries but then fails"

I ***ume you mean the the closer mechanism does open the handle, and then the tailgate pulls out a fraction, bleeps, then drops back in, and the closer mechanism re-locks.

If that is what is happening, then it's the same as mine, it's been like that for a few years and I can't be bothered to fix it.

To confirm that the motor is ok, just pull it a little bit for the first few inches, and if the motor then pulls it all the way up, the problem is most likely to be item 4 in my post above.
 
Hi freddo yes that's exactly what's happening. I'll try and get some grease on it next weekend and see if that fixes it
 
Definately just some grease I think, pops right up with a little help and then worked fine for a couple of times on its own.
 
adam123 said:
Definately just some grease I think, pops right up with a little help and then worked fine for a couple of times on its own.

Yeah it should be ok with a bit of grease. I did look to see if it can be done by removing the strip at the top at the back, if you manage to do it from there, I'd be interested (the strip just pulls away, but never seems to go back quite as well LOL)

Otherwise the whole roof lining needs to be removed which looks a pig to do from reading the e-manual that I have (Honda DVD).
 
Popped off the trim and managed to get to the bar with the teeth on that drives up the door. Plenty of lithium grease and countless times opening and closing the tailgate to no avail.
I think I'll have to drop the whole ***embly so I can get access to the motor and the mechanism that connects the motor to the rod.
I had a similar issue with wiper motor on a Nissan qashqai but it was a lot easier to get to!
 
adam123 said:
Popped off the trim and managed to get to the bar with the teeth on that drives up the door. Plenty of lithium grease and countless times opening and closing the tailgate to no avail.
I think I'll have to drop the whole ***embly so I can get access to the motor and the mechanism that connects the motor to the rod.
I had a similar issue with wiper motor on a Nissan qashqai but it was a lot easier to get to!
oh dear, if you managed to grease it thoroughly and it still doesn't pull open, then the motor itself is probably failing :(

Without having ever tried to reach in through the small gap with that trim piece removed, the philosophy that I have adopted is that if greasing through there did/does not work, I wouldn't bother to remove the headlining.

It might actually be the case that the motor does start to fail if the bar and teeth are not regularly greased (I'm sure I saw it on a Honda service interval somewhere but AFAIK the dealers never do it)

If you do intend to remove the headlining, I would get the Honda e-manual (DVD), it describes the headlining removal (as well as everything else LOL). To get a DVD read down the posts in this link http://typeaccord.co.uk/forum/topic/19286-haynes-us-accord-workshop-manuals/?p=210283
 
I've had a look and by removing the 2 rear side panels and the centre piece I can gain enough access with just removing 1 of the headlining clips to get the full motor out. My only problem is I'm not sure how to separate the motor from the bar with the teeth as this is connected to the hinge to drive the tailgate. It seems a simple enough job just potentially time consuming if I can't get the motor free from the bar.
Once I have the motor out I'm confident I can get it back to 100%, and get the mechanism as good as new
 
The e-manual only has instructions for removal of the entire drive unit, which definitely does require complete removal of the headlining. But there is nothing on strip-down of the drive unit, so it's difficult to know if it is possible to get the motor out on its own without complete removal of the headlining.

I could post a couple of drawings from the e-manual if you want, put I don't think they'll show you any more than you've probably seen visually by now

edit: and you're correct, in that to remove the entire drive unit, you have to disconnect the bar from the hinge
 
I'm confident enough to strip down the motor without instructions and having the headlining hanging off today I definately won't have to take it all down. It's just the disconnecting of the rod I'd like to know about. Any help/pictures would be great
 
I've taken a few screen shots of the instructions for drive unit removal, click on an image to get full size

note that in the trim removal instructions (they are on other pages), there are warnings about SRS stuff (that will be the side impact curtains)

tailgate_drive_unit_1.jpg




tailgate_drive_unit_2.jpg





tailgate_drive_unit_3.jpg
 
Freddo you are a star! So the drive rod will come out without just a lock washer.
I'll take some pictures as I'm doing it
 
Haha I cant believe you know so much about the tailgate and yours is faulty!!
 
A bit of sad news to report :-(
I completely stripped the motor and entire mechanism, it was all perfect, freely spinning no signs of stress of the coil from worn out brushes absolutely perfect. But as everything was in bits there was a bit more grease added to areas for help. Rebuilt the back end of car and nope still nothing. However after a bit of greasing on the hinges and slight realignment of the boot lid as it was way over to the other side we managed to get the tailgate to open usually on the 2nd attempt. At one point we had it go up 6times in a row then fail twice.
I left it alone for a bit an cleaned my tail pipes. After this the boot would open on the third time like clockwork for a good few attempts. On further inspection we could here a very faint click and it seems as though the lock mechanism is keeping hold just a millisecond too long. With the weight of my middle finger helping the tailgate it opens everytime and I'm talking a very very light touch. I messed around and adjusted the catch at the bottom to which the lock 'locks' around and it seemed to improve our testing slightly. I'm really stuck where to go next as the car needs such a slight touch and it flies open
 
I guess you can see why I've never bothered with mine LOL ....the cumulative energy expended in me pulling the tailgate each time must be a lot less than the energy involved in fixing it

But with that amount of effort that you've done, you can take over from me as the forum tailgate expert if you want ;)
 
Haha not quite mate! But I've had my old man giving me a hand and it's wound him up now so apparently we have to fix it. Next step is to try and get the lock mechanism out and clean that.
Does yours open at all with any number of attempts?
 
- if the car is parked facing "uphill" on an incline the tailgate opens ok.

- On level ground, it opens about an inch, bleeps, then drops back and locks itself. If I give it a tiny bit of help it works same as if parked uphill.

- If parked facing "downhill" on an incline, it won't even pull out.

- Also, with tailgate fully open, it won't shut if there is a wind blowing against the tailgate.

- No DTC's at all, and no faults in any of the tailgate tests in the Honda HDS.

All of the above points to needing a good greasing, but as I say, the cumulative effort involved in pulling it, is far less than the effort of fixing it LOL

But I usually get involved in these tailgate discussions because I've looked at the circuit diagrams, read the stuff in the e-manual, and read most of the theories ....but not seen that thread before :eek:

I'm surprised that yours is still being stubborn though after all that effort. I guess it could be the handle, maybe there is a software update for the tailgate ECU to give it more time to pull open before the handle switches fully clear. But that wouldn't explain why it opens if you help it ?
 
I don't think my problem is anything involving greasing anymore. I'm an electrician by trade and the motor is perfect. The mechanism moves freely if you spin it by hand with no drag. And it flies up so easily with the slightest touch.

Having read that thread I'm convinced it's now to do the lock mechanism. I had a quick look wiped away some grease and noticed quite a bit of grit in. I know this wouldn't necessarily cause the connection issue discussed but it certainly wouldn't help.

Also this would fit with your explanation of what your tailgate does.
Uphill - the weight of the tailgate will pull it away before the lock drags against the clasp
Downhill - the weight of the tailgate will ensure it drags and doesn't open quick enough/correctly so the ecu says no.

Again this would fit with you having no fault codes
 
looking at the circuit diagram for the closer unit, there are a lot of switches ...too many ?

0007a_zps7a3e099a.jpg



have a go and see if that fixes it
 
The half latch switch would be prime suspect! But next weekends task will be to strip that down and clean it.
Do you agree it could fit all of our symptoms? I'm not sure if I'm just jumping on the bandwagon in hope I'm correct
 
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