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Car Won't Start

M

Motorhate

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Messages
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7
Location
London / Kent
Car
Honda Accord CDTI
Was on motorway tonight and heard a bit of a knocking noise from the engine. The acceleration appeared to be sluggish and eventually it lost power and cut out. Now it won't start and the engine light suddenly displayed as I was trying to restart it too. Any ideas what this could be?
Timing chain was changed last year and it was running fine until tonight. No issues whatsoever.
 
Does the engine still turn over? I ***ume the battery is still good.
***uming nothing is loose or visually broken in the engine bay?

Have tried to plug in a diagnostic reader?
That would be the first thing i would do.
 
Does sound like the oil pump might have failed..
 
OK fellas, sorry for the late reply and thanks for the suggestions. The following error codes were gotten from a generic reader -

P1684 - Throttle Valve Return Spring Performance Problem
P1042 - Injector 2, supply voltage - circuit malfunction

This would tie in with the car not starting but turning over. Not sure if this would explain the knocking though. I did notice a slight burning smell when I opened the bonnet, but not sure if this was normal (***uming not!). I'm thinking this would tie in with a short as diagnosed by P1042.

Nothing visually broken or leaking in the engine bay.

F6HAD - would the oil pump produce the above error codes or would they be more related to timing chain? I'm really hoping that the codes DO relate to fuel supply and its not a symptomatic engine code(s) to a more serious problem.
 
Without hearing the noise and diagnosing myself it's difficult to say but a failed injector will prevent it from starting and yes diesel knock can make an unusual sound so it's plausible..
 
Try blowing warm air onto inlet manifold, or into air intake, using a hair dryer or paint stripper, this will ***ist in starting, and you will hear the misfire, Our old ford 6's start on three cylinders and build up to six, granted they of jurassic age compared to what we have today, but old tricks do still work. Do not use "easystart"
 
I tried a fair few things to try and get it started but still no joy. Took it to Honda in Maidstone and I got the news from Honda today and they reckon its the ECU. To test this they'll need to get a donor unit (which I have to pay for them to fit) and then once verified, I'll need to stump up £1800 for a new ECU. I've told them to shove that and how about if I get a second-hand one and they can fit and re-code it too, so they're OK with that but won't guarantee the part (understandable).

Is that normal for a new ECU - £1800 ? That seems really excessive!
 
I've heard about dealers taking the **** but that really is a new one. If I have old and new units I can clone it, or I can probably adapt a replacement ecu to the car.. It's not that difficult with the right tools.

Your symptoms don't sound like an ecu fault though.
 
Cliffordski said:
Was your oil pump chain replaced along with your timing chain?
Click to expand...
Not as far as I know. Only timing chain, turbo and dual mass fly-wheel were replaced recently (last year).
 
Might be worth politely checking with the garage - as Fahad says some things point in that direction.

"Hope you don't mind me asking, but just for my own peace of mind, is the oil pump chain definitely okay?" type of thing - before you go any further down the ECU road.
 
Well it was strange because the data that came from the ECU was confusing according to the dealership who had to send it away to Honda to be ****ysed. Honda have said that it points to the ECU BUT - the dealership are saying I'll have to pay for a donor ECU to be fitted to confirm that's what it is, then I'll need to either buy a new one or supply a second-hand one. Is that how dealers operate these days? The customer has to pay for their own troubleshooting?
 
Well garage just got back to me. Every time they run a diagnostics test the battery runs flat. They're not sure whether it's the ecu or the battery. Really don't know whether it's a crap battery or the ecu is running multiple tests which are running down the battery.
 
Well surely they have enough sense to put a charger or even jump leads off another car to allow them to run some diagnostics while they're cranking it. Is this the most incompetent dealer in the uk perhaps or are you not getting the full story?
 
As Fahad says surely they are intelligent enough to put a charger or jump pack on it. Why wasn't oil pump chain replaced? What year and mileage is it?
 
I did say to them that surely a replacement battery would diagnose that problem. I'm really not sure I'm being told the full story. Originally they said it was the Ecu and that they'd need to order a donor one from Belgium to confirm that was the problem.
Pretty poor show all round really. This is nearly 4 weeks and they haven't even diagnosed the problem yet, let alone started to fix it.
 
If they are ordering one from Belgium then it would sound like they are ordering a new one from Honda. If that's the case the box has been opened and ecu fitted then they cannot return it. Honda do not accept returns on electrical components. So they would at a guess pass the cost onto you regardless if the ecu was faulty. As a general rule most dealers will charge time for troubleshooting otherwise we can spend hours on some cars eventually find what's wrong then the customer takes the car away to an independent to get it fixed and we would of lost time on a job and not get paid. But I really don't think you are getting the whole story from them. Maybe see if you can take it to another dealer or decent independent?
 
Well the car won't start so I can't really take it away and try someone else. I did say that if it was the Ecu, I'm not paying 1800 for a new one, at best I'd buy a secondhand one and get them to fit it. They agreed to that but won't guarentee the part. 1800 is about as much as the car is worth anyway so no point paying it.

Is it really the case that the customer has to pay for the troubleshooting? That's crazy. Surely they should diagnose the problem and fix it and then charge accordingly, not just try random parts and if they don't work then charge the customer. At this rate they'll be charging me for a battery too.
I'm going to ring them tomorrow so will update you all.
 
Any decent garage that has access to modern diagnostic tools, and knows their way around a common rail engine will be able to solve this. If you were closer, we would have taken this on. I would suggest you cut your losses with them and get it over to another garage closer to you that can spend some time on it. You can get ECU's off ebay for £50 for these and it shouldn't cost you much to have it coded in. I still don't think it's your ECU, especially as you mention a knocking sound and then a loss of power.. it sounds like a bottom end problem to me really.
 
Yeah its a real shame I'm not closer to you F6HAD, I'd have left it with you no problem. As you say, surely a problem of this nature shouldn't be hard to diagnose with the equipment they have. Strange that they had to send the data off to Honda, only to try and run the diagnostics again and say that the battery was playing up. I'm confused. As I said I'm going to ring them tomorrow and give them ultimatum.
 
Year is 2005 and the mileage is around 195k - can't check extact milage but its around that.

Latest update - the donor battery to troubleshoot the draining issue hasn’t been authorised by Honda so I’ll have to pay for a new battery. They say it isn’t’ holding a charge when its been put on charge, so needs to be replaced anyway, it just annoys me that basic troubleshooting for these kind of problems has to be paid for. I get that the customer could just up sticks and take the car elsewhere when the problem has been diagnosed but the fact that they physically can’t do this without Honda’s say so is baffling. Won’t be making that mistake again in a hurry.
Its also galling at the lack of contact, I’ve had to call on every occasion and when I’ve phoned and they’re busy they never call back.
 
Latest update - fitted new battery and ran diagnostics successfully but now ECU is giving faults that aren't related to the problem supposedly. Wouldn't elaborate on that though "a real head-scratcher" were his exact words. They're going to carry on troubleshooting.
 
I can think of another description :blink:
 
Oh dear, have they given the car to the apprentice to look at? Surely clear the codes and start again. Then if the non related codes come back then there is further issues. If they've had the ignition on while troubleshooting and disconnected something else then that can throw a code. And as a professional outfit they shouldn't be saying a real head scratcher. It would be nice if they said what other faults came up though
 
Yeah, it is worrying that a main dealer is stumped, considering the amount of time they've had it. If I cut my losses it's going to cost me to get it towed and for what they've done so far. Starting to wish I'd never bought it now.
 
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