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Coolant overflow and no heat

H

Hookie

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2009 2.2 D EX Tourer
Evening all. Having a strange issue with my 2009 2.2 iDTEC EX Tourer (135k miles), hoping someone has experienced the same or similar and can perhaps shed some light. Only the vaguest amount of heat from the air vents regardless of mode or temperature setting. Found coolant level low, topped it up 2 litres and ran the engine from cold, within a few minutes I have coolant pouring from the header tank overflow pipe. An awful lot is pouring out and after a couple of litres have been lost the overflowing stops (the overflow pressure is not high, a finger on the end of the tube halts the flow) and the engine maintains temperature and runs very smoothly. Obviously i'm not happy running it for any length of time with low coolant level. My first though was head gasket failure but there's no sign of oil in coolant or vice versa and no wisps of smoke from the exhaust or odour from the header tank. Fitter a new header tank cap, this made no difference. Replaced the thermostat, again no difference. Ordinarily I would look to back flush the heater core but on the mk8 diesel there doesn't appear to be a way of detaching the bulkhead pipes and i'm reluctant to remove the entire dash to get to the heater unit at this stage. The top of the radiator remains cool despite the temperature gauge being bang in the middle. In desperation i've booked it into a Honda dealer (Vertu) in Newcastle next week for diagnostics initially. I absolutely love the car but am expecting Honda to quote me more than the cars value for repairs. Please do let me know if you have any clue what may be the issue. I will of course report back after the visit to Honda.
Regards
Peter, Newcastle upon Tyne
 
I wonder if its a failed Thermostat?
 
That’s what I thought but he says he’s changed that. This is not a typical idtec issue, I’ve not actually seen it before but they are getting a bit older so anything is possible really. Maybe a blocked radiator..
 
Thanks Gents, I hadn't though about a radiator blockage, be unusual for all channels to be blocked but as you say these cars are not getting any younger. I'll remove it and flush through at the weekend. I may well cancel the appointment at Honda and just plod on with my own checks. I can foresee the main dealer diagnostics stretching to several hours, not easy to justify on such an old car.
Regards
 
sounds like a blocked rad to me, see this exact problem with the 1.4 Vauxhall engines all the time, the rads block in the middle, get a cheap laser temp gun and that'll show you where the blockage is
 
Thank you for your response. I have an IR thermometer I use for tuning my motorcycles, i'll have a go at the weekend and hopefully have some good news. New rad is in the region of £300 so not horrendous. I'm reluctant to get rid of this car as it drives so well (usually) and really is a cut above the BMW and Merc equivalents of the time. Regards.
 
Thanks, yes the fans are kicking in as normal. I've had a bit of a breakthrough. had the radiator out at the weekend and flushed it through, I don't think it had any blockage as liquid was exiting as fast as it was going in. Put a coolant flush in on Sunday and drove 100 miles before dropping the coolant, which came out a very murky dark brown. refilled coolant and now no more overflow from the header tank and I have a little bit of heat from the passenger side. I intend to do one more coolant flush then look at the water valve and blend motors.

The water valve that is on the bulkhead and operated by a cable, should I be able move this by hand? I've tried moving it and can't. I will enlist an ***istant to change the heater settings in the car whilst I watch the valve. This is a 2.2i-DTEC and i'm aware has a different heating system to petrol models. Hopefully I can have this all working properly soon.

Regards
Peter
 
I don’t think those should move by hand and be careful not to damage them by forcing them. Yes check operation with someone changing the settings.. if it’s seized that might be your issue too
 
I've had a breakthrough with this problem. A second coolant flush appears to have cleared the heater matrix and I now have heat in the car, but, only from the passenger side. Removed the strut brace to gain better access to the water valve, that is working properly and the hoses to and from the matrix are getting hot with the valve open. I've ordered a drivers side heater blend motor from Honda as I can't think what else could be the issue. The passenger side motor appears to be cycling through the different heater modes correctly whereas the drivers side one is operating but can feel a clunk with my hand on it. On back order from Honda until mid-August, gives me time to lose four stones so I can contort myself in the footwell to replace it! Air con is not working so i'll organise a regas if the blend motor cures the fault. Thanks to all for your input. Regards, Peter
 
Hookie said:
I've had a breakthrough with this problem. A second coolant flush appears to have cleared the heater matrix and I now have heat in the car, but, only from the passenger side. Removed the strut brace to gain better access to the water valve, that is working properly and the hoses to and from the matrix are getting hot with the valve open. I've ordered a drivers side heater blend motor from Honda as I can't think what else could be the issue. The passenger side motor appears to be cycling through the different heater modes correctly whereas the drivers side one is operating but can feel a clunk with my hand on it. On back order from Honda until mid-August, gives me time to lose four stones so I can contort myself in the footwell to replace it! Air con is not working so i'll organise a regas if the blend motor cures the fault. Thanks to all for your input. Regards, Peter
Click to expand...
This is sounding much like a Mk7 issue, you may find a further flush (or three) clears more out of the matrix on the drivers side. I'm not sure if the motor issue is similar, the vanes on this tourer appear to be working well, no improvement but I believe I have a very silted up engine.
I got more brown stuff out by reverse flushing with a jetwasher.
 
Thanks. I did a coolant flush tonight using Wynns radiator flush. I'd drained and refilled with plain water prior to the flush and about 3 minutes into idling the flush had turned to foam and was pouring from the overflow pipe under high pressure to the point after a couple of minutes where pretty much all of the coolant had been displaced by foam. Did three drains and refills with plain water. Leaving the bleed valve open with the engine off i'm getting plain water coming out eventually but as soon as I start the engine the bleed valve water turns to foam. On the plus side i'm now getting a little bit of heat from the drivers side heater and full heat from the passenger side. I'm starting to look at worst case scenario so have ordered a head gasket CO2 test kit. Hoping that isn't the case as there's no mixing of oil and coolant but I have noticed little bubbles rising in the header tank. Have any of you had to fork out for a head gasket replacement on a 2.2i DTEC?
 
Right, i've done a co2 test and there are definitely exhaust gases in the coolant but still no other symptoms of a leaking head gasket. Have booked the car into a local trusted repairer (15th August, they're very busy), discussed the symptoms with them and they think it may well be a fault with the EGR cooler if not the head gasket. I'll report back after the appointment.
Regards, Peter.
 
These cars do have a known issue with failing oil coolers, symptoms are normally oil in the coolant but no sign of white sludge under the oil cap.. you sure it’s not a failing oil cooler? These do suffer with cracked egr pipes but never seen a failing egr cooler causing exhaust gas leakage into the coolant circuit..
 
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Thanks. I'll mention oil cooler to them, i'm at the stage now where it's gone beyond my ability. I'm fascinated to find out what the issue is as there is still no oil in coolant or vice versa and no white smoke. Also, the car drives superbly although now I know for sure there are exhaust gases in the coolant i'll stop using it until repaired. Thank you for your help.
 
Sorry, not been on this thread since last time.

Has the stuff ejected from the cooling system been non - antifreeze colour ?

In the case of my Tourer, I took out the radiator and ran a jetwash through it (removing the thermostat switch and cleaning the surface in the process)
There was a large amount of silt build up whiich required about ten flushes to clear to an acceptable level, using the 'gold panning' method.

I have seen the fans come on since so the cleaning has made some difference. I've nothing frothy in the oil and I doubt I have a head gasket failure, hence asking about other potential issues,

If you have something coming out of the matrix now, then keep with the flushing, though I woudn't spend money on trusted products. Use detergent/washing up liquid and drain/refill once a week - short runs only mind - to check on sediment that comes out.

But what do I know ?
 
Thank you. The coolant overflowing is clean. I think you're right about the flushing in relation to my heater problem. I've done a few already and the heat is much improved, is only the far right vent not giving any heat now. I will not do any more flushing now until the gas in coolant issue is sorted. Worst case scenario I could be looking at £1500 for a head skim and gasket. Regards, Peter.
 
Are you actually losing any coolant or even oil for that matter? Any white or blue smoke? Any white sludge under the oil cap?
 
The only coolant i'm losing is from the header tank overflow and only at higher revs. The pressure build up must be heavy as the radiator hoses are rock solid when warmed up. Oil cap is clear, there's been no change to the oil level and there's no smoke from the exhaust. When the rain stops i'll have a look at the egr cooler, if i can bypass it and join the water hoses temporarily I'll know that's the problem if there's no exhaust gas in the coolant. Thanks for your help.
 
I've just discovered where the EGR cooler is on the iDTEC, i've got no chance! I'll have to leave it to the professionals. Booked into West Automotive in Newcastle 15/8, i'll report back after that.
 
Hookie said:
The only coolant i'm losing is from the header tank overflow and only at higher revs. The pressure build up must be heavy as the radiator hoses are rock solid when warmed up. Oil cap is clear, there's been no change to the oil level and there's no smoke from the exhaust. When the rain stops i'll have a look at the egr cooler, if i can bypass it and join the water hoses temporarily I'll know that's the problem if there's no exhaust gas in the coolant. Thanks for your help.
Click to expand...

Almost identical to mine, though I now have a small leak on the upper heater matrix (outlet), possibly breached on my last long run as a result of the pressure build up.
Now that it is venting, she does run fine at normal A road/motorway speeds, and I add half a litre of water every 40 miles or so.

There is no other leak I can see, no mist/water in oil, she has never lost oil between changes (the one reason I'm at pains not to get shot of her), and nothing warm coming out of the vents, ever, even though the matrix has been flushed and runs clear.

As per another thread I had suspected the water pump had failed a few months back but would the diesel carry on running flawlessly with such a failure ?
 
Have you tested for combustion gases in the coolant? The pressure must be coming from somewhere. I suspect your water pump hasn't failed though if the engine is running fine. Good luck with it.
 
Hookie said:
Have you tested for combustion gases in the coolant? The pressure must be coming from somewhere. I suspect your water pump hasn't failed though if the engine is running fine. Good luck with it.
Click to expand...

I doubt anyone apart from a garage has the test kit.
Where would it come from on a i-ctdi, same place as the i-dtec ?
 
Garage shouldn't charge much to test it, only takes 15mins. I did my own test with a kit off ebay for £20. Gas in coolant will be from a leaking head gasket, egr cooler or worst case scenario a cracked cylinder head or engine block.
 
OK, did the journey without issue (actually shorter as I took the motorways on the way back to test things), 295 miles all round.

I spent most of the time at 70 and the needle didn't move anywhere beyond 2 clicks before middle. At my destination I put in half a litre to the reservoir, when I returned another half. but really not needed.

Both times the bonnet was opened there was no hissing from pipes nor exhaust smells (pipes were pressurised/tight, I had redone the clamps on the matrix yesterday. On the return run I turned on the matrix and felt some warmth from the passenger side, but not a lot.

I drained the system an hour ago with the engine hot and the water is absolutely clear.



I'll work out the £43 (of diesel used - £1.41 a litre) later but I know I have two injector seal issues.

Will check oil level tomorrow but can almost guarantee it will be at the same- top- level as always, with no contamination.


This is the reason I'll keep using her since the job always gets done. I would love to have an answer on whether it is possible to fit the thermostat upside down though as I can only think it is how I may have screwed up after two years of running without one.
 
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Just checked, oil level hasn't moved from top level.

I've just treated her to a bottle of Redex since there is half a tank of diesel (a rarity), and my local Lidl are currently doing 2 for a fiver
 
Hi all, I have an update after eight weeks of inconclusive diagnostics at my chosen garage. The head is off and they have found a tiny crack in the engine block. I've managed to source a 45k mile engine with a six month warranty so hopefully that will be fitted and working soon. A cracked block must be a one in a million for these engines! Thanks to all for your previous ***istance, it is much appreciated.
 
Yeah, the cost. likely upwards of £2k. It sounds a lot to spend on a 14 year old Honda but if I dispose of it i'll only want another Accord which would likely set me back £3 to £5k. Mine is superb in all other respects so happy to have it repaired. I work in admin in the motor trade and we've spent £12,000 having a Land Rover engine replaced recently so it puts mine into perspective a bit!
 
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