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Tfarm

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Hi all, my 2011 tourer has covered 130000 miles and I think the Dpf is almost done. (Mpg has dropped a lot recently).

I'm deciding between getting it removed or replaced. I've found somewhere local that will remove for £500. And am wondering what a new one would cost Inc fitting.

Has anybody had a new one fitted or know the cost?

Cheers
 

honda_saj

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About £1000 it's cheaper to perform egr and dpf off with remap

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Tfarm

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edgeoftime said:
No warning on dash??
Not yet. I just want to be prepared for when it does come on. And if I decide to remove the dpf then I might as well go ahead before the light comes on.

That reminds me, I thought I'd read that a dpf removal can't be done with the light on. Is this right?

Cheers
 

scotsgent

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I recently had a new DPF fitted by Honda.

The total cost was £1100.

Of course, you can go down the removal road and the cost is around £500.

I considered this, BUT....It is illegal and carries a £1000 penalty, the failing of your MOT and you will then have to fit a new DPF to get it on the road. I guess your insurance will probably be invalidated. On balance, there were too many uncertainties for me, but you may be more relaxed about it?

Plenty of folks have done this on the basis that you 'probably' will not be detected, but it was not for me, diesel emissions are big news just now, it wouldn't surprise me if proper detection processes are not put in place and you will be caught.

For your information, I first had my DPF cleaned using the Tunap process, this cost £150 and lasted 260 miles!

I see there is a FORTE treatment whereby you take the DPF off the car and then clean it, it costs £30 and might be worth doing for the cost. You will have to take the DPF off to do it. You will need plenty of 'penetrating; oil on all the bolts and sensors since these can seize up, but if it all goes well, then removing the DPF for a clean is not difficult, Honda only charge 1 hours labour when they remove and replace a DPF.

If you try and get the DPF sorted using temporary solutions (forced regenerations, cleaning, etc.) then beware finding that you have spent a few hundred quid which could have gone into the purchase of a new DPF if you had bit the bullet and got Honda to fit a new one from the off..

My 6 year old car had only done 36k and so, even after buying a new DPF I reckoned i would have a good few years of use, but with 130k on the clock then the decision is harder, maybe then I would have been persuaded to go for a removal and take the risk of detection?

Honda give you a 1 year guarantee if they fit. Honda gave me a goodwill contribution of 50%, but i had to do quite a bit of work to get this.

Cheers, Terry

EDIT - I have re-read your post - you don't have any DPF symptoms except poor mpg - this could be other issues?
 

edgeoftime

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scotsgent said:
I have only owned it a year.

in any event, it was a useless comment. No help at all to the subject at hand.

How old are you?!
I am 77 going on 19, I meant that the car is not being used as it was designed to be. Too many owners with probs do not drive the thing , and try to get more mpg than enjoyment from a car built to be driven, anyway whats my age got to do with it??

reread your post so now you have put 124,000 miles on it, you should not have any probs in that case.
 

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There is a lot of misinformation regarding the so called crackdown. The regs actually changed in Feb 2014, it's nothing new.

There is no £1000 fine.

Yes it's an mot failure if they detect it.
 

scotsgent

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Is this untrue then?

It is an offence under the Road vehicles (Construction and Use) Regulations (Regulation 61a(3))1 to use a vehicle which has been modified in such a way that it no longer complies with the air pollutant emissions standards it was designed to meet. Removal of a DPF will almost invariably contravene these requirements, making the vehicle illegal for road use. The potential penalties for failing to comply with Regulation 61a are fines of up to £1,000 for a car or £2,500 for a light goods vehicle.
 

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Note the use of the word 'potential'

It's scaremongering.

If the car fails it's mot then it's deemed unroadworthy and will need rectifying.
 

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scotsgent said:
I recently had a new DPF fitted by Honda.

The total cost was £1100.

Of course, you can go down the removal road and the cost is around £500.

I considered this, BUT....It is illegal and carries a £1000 penalty, the failing of your MOT and you will then have to fit a new DPF to get it on the road. I guess your insurance will probably be invalidated. On balance, there were too many uncertainties for me, but you may be more relaxed about it?

Plenty of folks have done this on the basis that you 'probably' will not be detected, but it was not for me, diesel emissions are big news just now, it wouldn't surprise me if proper detection processes are not put in place and you will be caught.

For your information, I first had my DPF cleaned using the Tunap process, this cost £150 and lasted 260 miles!

I see there is a FORTE treatment whereby you take the DPF off the car and then clean it, it costs £30 and might be worth doing for the cost. You will have to take the DPF off to do it. You will need plenty of 'penetrating; oil on all the bolts and sensors since these can seize up, but if it all goes well, then removing the DPF for a clean is not difficult, Honda only charge 1 hours labour when they remove and replace a DPF.

If you try and get the DPF sorted using temporary solutions (forced regenerations, cleaning, etc.) then beware finding that you have spent a few hundred quid which could have gone into the purchase of a new DPF if you had bit the bullet and got Honda to fit a new one from the off..

My 6 year old car had only done 36k and so, even after buying a new DPF I reckoned i would have a good few years of use, but with 130k on the clock then the decision is harder, maybe then I would have been persuaded to go for a removal and take the risk of detection?

Honda give you a 1 year guarantee if they fit. Honda gave me a goodwill contribution of 50%, but i had to do quite a bit of work to get this.

Cheers, Terry

EDIT - I have re-read your post - you don't have any DPF symptoms except poor mpg - this could be other issues?
Hi,

Long post,

Just wanted to disagree on a few matters and clarify before you mislead people on forum, dpf removal and egr removal or off is not illegal as long as you get vehicle re mapped to pass emissions test. If you are concerned about the don't drive a diesel put your hands in your pocket and spend at petrol station and people seem to think diesel are cheaper to run they actually work out more expensive, as more to buy, run and maintain not mentioning the pollution they cause, I guess I'm giving away that I'm a petrol head lol. As far as insurance you are not correct again as insurance is indemnity to drive I won't start a debate but lets say I know motoring law more than some people on here to the point where the pc plod have been proven wrong. Don't mean to start an argument @scotsgent just want you know make sure what you post is correct and verified

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F6HAD

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Need to be careful about the word 'illegal'

There is a lot of rubbish being peddled on the internet and misinformation which confuses people.

In the current uk mot if they see evidence of exhaust tampering, they WILL fail it. If it fails the emissions test, they WILL fail it.

If the job is done right it won't get picked up.

It's illegal to have a vehicle on the road without an MoT.

You can read what you want into that, it's a grey area and definitely frowned on by the authorities, but at the moment companies throughout the U.K. are still offering the service and cars are passing their mot.

I would never want to mislead anyone over this, you pay your money and take your chances.
 

edgeoftime

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At the present time "last week" my MOT station was unable to detect any emissions from my "DIRTY diesel" so my DPF MUST BE ULTRA CLEAN. ?????
 

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The emissions test doesn't measure NOx, and it's NOx particles that are causing people to die. Having said that, AFAIK, the DPF doesn't stop NOx, it's EGR that reduces NOx, but only under certain load conditions (e.g. idle).

But basically, the diesel engine is going to be the first of the I.C. engines to disappear from cars, thank god for that.
 

scotsgent

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Just wanted to disagree on a few matters and clarify before you mislead people on forum, dpf removal and egr removal or off is not illegal as long as you get vehicle re mapped to pass emissions test. If you are concerned about the don't drive a diesel put your hands in your pocket and spend at petrol station and people seem to think diesel are cheaper to run they actually work out more expensive, as more to buy, run and maintain not mentioning the pollution they cause, I guess I'm giving away that I'm a petrol head lol. As far as insurance you are not correct again as insurance is indemnity to drive I won't start a debate but lets say I know motoring law more than some people on here to the point where the pc plod have been proven wrong. Don't mean to start an argument @scotsgent just want you know make sure what you post is correct and verified
I am certainly not wishing to mislead anyone

The OP has asked has anyone had a DPF removed and refitted - I have, and so have answered to the best of my ability.

I am afraid you are wrong - it is illegal to remove the DPF, eg. you may fail your MOT and you may be prosecuted under the regulations - it doesn't mean you will, but you are liable. I pointed this out as the reasons why I (I underlined I) decided to renew my DPF - you will also see that I said the OP might well have a different view, and that would be up to them.

Here is the source for my ***ertion that the removal of the DPF is illegal (the government) -https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/diesel-particulate-filters-guidance-note

Here is the relevant passage:

" Legal requirements and the MoT test From February 2014 the inspection of the exhaust system carried out during the MoT test will include a check for the presence of a DPF. A missing DPF, where one was fitted when the vehicle was built, will result in an MoT failure. A vehicle might still pass the MoT visible smoke emissions test, which is primarily intended to identify vehicles that are in a very poor state of repair, whilst emitting illegal and harmful levels of fine exhaust particulate. It is an offence under the Road vehicles (Construction and Use) Regulations (Regulation 61a(3))1 to use a vehicle which has been modified in such a way that it no longer complies with the air pollutant emissions standards it was designed to meet. Removal of a DPF will almost invariably contravene these requirements, making the vehicle illegal for road use. The potential penalties for failing to comply 1 with Regulation 61a are fines of up to £1,000 for a car or £2,500 for a light goods vehicle".


Could you give a source for your ascertation that it is not illegal to remove the DPF and that with software manipulation it is OK? - where do you get that from?

If you modify your vehicle and don't tell your insurer (and I doubt that you will tell your insurer that you have made your vehicle illegal to drive on the road because you have removed your DPF), then, as we all know, your insurer would be delighted to refuse to cover you in the event of a claim because you have omitted to inform them of a modification.

So, I really don't see where i could be said to have been misleading
 

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F6HAD said:
Need to be careful about the word 'illegal'

There is a lot of rubbish being peddled on the internet and misinformation which confuses people.

In the current uk mot if they see evidence of exhaust tampering, they WILL fail it. If it fails the emissions test, they WILL fail it.

If the job is done right it won't get picked up.

It's illegal to have a vehicle on the road without an MoT.

You can read what you want into that, it's a grey area and definitely frowned on by the authorities, but at the moment companies throughout the U.K. are still offering the service and cars are passing their mot.

I would never want to mislead anyone over this, you pay your money and take your chances.
Well said fahad I agree with you on those points

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scotsgent said:
I am certainly not wishing to mislead anyone

The OP has asked has anyone had a DPF removed and refitted - I have, and so have answered to the best of my ability.

I am afraid you are wrong - it is illegal to remove the DPF, eg. you may fail your MOT and you may be prosecuted under the regulations - it doesn't mean you will, but you are liable. I pointed this out as the reasons why I (I underlined I) decided to renew my DPF - you will also see that I said the OP might well have a different view, and that would be up to them.

Here is the source for my ***ertion that the removal of the DPF is illegal (the government) -https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/diesel-particulate-filters-guidance-note

Here is the relevant passage:

" Legal requirements and the MoT test From February 2014 the inspection of the exhaust system carried out during the MoT test will include a check for the presence of a DPF. A missing DPF, where one was fitted when the vehicle was built, will result in an MoT failure. A vehicle might still pass the MoT visible smoke emissions test, which is primarily intended to identify vehicles that are in a very poor state of repair, whilst emitting illegal and harmful levels of fine exhaust particulate. It is an offence under the Road vehicles (Construction and Use) Regulations (Regulation 61a(3))1 to use a vehicle which has been modified in such a way that it no longer complies with the air pollutant emissions standards it was designed to meet. Removal of a DPF will almost invariably contravene these requirements, making the vehicle illegal for road use. The potential penalties for failing to comply 1 with Regulation 61a are fines of up to £1,000 for a car or £2,500 for a light goods vehicle".


Could you give a source for your ascertation that it is not illegal to remove the DPF and that with software manipulation it is OK? - where do you get that from?

If you modify your vehicle and don't tell your insurer (and I doubt that you will tell your insurer that you have made your vehicle illegal to drive on the road because you have removed your DPF), then, as we all know, your insurer would be delighted to refuse to cover you in the event of a claim because you have omitted to inform them of a modification.

So, I really don't see where i could be said to have been misleading
Fair enough I hope by your comments you don't break the speed limit and never have done anything illegal in your life. I still disagree but then we can be have differences of opinion as the quote said who said removal you can actually disable and still have dpf in vehicle you go on about law but the law is not straight I hope you can take some time to educate yourself by doing some research on legal terms legalese

http://www.dummies.com/education/law/understanding-latin-legalese/


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scotsgent

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Of course I break the speed limit and yes, I have done a few illegal things in my life.

If I do something 'wrong' then I have to take the consequences - I am just pointing out that there are consequences if you remove your DPF and take the car on the road. I agree, its up to the individual to measure the risk and make their own decision, that's up to them.

I still haven't seen your source which says you can do so legally and with impunity.

Your link doesn't help the OP's original question one bit.

Anyway, we can agree to disagree, no point in this running further.

Cheers, Terry
 

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It could actually already be removed you know
 

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I encountered this issue when I was extremely short of funds, I opted for an aftermarket DPF which then failed in 30000 miles /18 months.

Then after that it wouldn't regen so I had it removed after a short conversation with Fahad (nice chap). (Although not actually removed by him sorry Fahad) it was done by a company called Avon Tuning which was more accessible for me to drive to in limp mode.

The car has been perfect ever since and last week passed my [taxi] MOT with zero advisories, not even on smoke.

Needless to say, owning a diesel now a days is something you have to think about before purchase.
 

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F6HAD said:
It could actually already be removed you know
How would I know that? all I can say is that it goes like a scalded whatsit, and I have witnessed a regen in the rear view mirror. If and when I come up to you, and you find it's not there will there be a NO CHARGE. LOL
 

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Hi, thanks for all the advice.

As I'm keeping my car for a long time I'm reluctant to pay £1000 for a DPF that might only last 5 years. If it was a more reasonable cost then perhaps there wouldn't be so many DPFs being removed.

The nearest place to remove DPFs for me is Avon-Tuning. A question for DazTheMe and anyone else that knows them, are they a good company and what are your experiences with them.

Thanks
 

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They've done plenty of 8th gen Accords, the service was really good and they're happy to answer any questions you have. There's a waiting room with a TV and a PlayStation for while you wait and a kitchen area at your disposal.

I've not had a single problem since the remap in December.

I believe they use elite remaps software which has I *think* is the same software Fahad used (i think i read this somewhere on the forums)

After speaking to then and looking at the amount of positive feedback from their Facebook page ect i was fully reassured.

There is a guy local to me who says he can do it as he's done it for one of the other drivers on our taxi firm, and from what I've heard if he pushes it too hard the EML comes on, probably as a result of trying to map it too aggressively and breaching the torque limiters.

Sorry got abit of track, yes ide highly recommend Avon Tuning.
 

Tfarm

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DazTheMe said:
They've done plenty of 8th gen Accords, the service was really good and they're happy to answer any questions you have. There's a waiting room with a TV and a PlayStation for while you wait and a kitchen area at your disposal.

I've not had a single problem since the remap in December.

I believe they use elite remaps software which has I *think* is the same software Fahad used (i think i read this somewhere on the forums)

After speaking to then and looking at the amount of positive feedback from their Facebook page ect i was fully reassured.

There is a guy local to me who says he can do it as he's done it for one of the other drivers on our taxi firm, and from what I've heard if he pushes it too hard the EML comes on, probably as a result of trying to map it too aggressively and breaching the torque limiters.

Sorry got abit of track, yes ide highly recommend Avon Tuning.
Cheers
 
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