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How long are you people planning to hang on to your cars for - and why?

S

ship69

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'08 i-DTEC EX man 5D
Hi 7th Gen Owners,

I am curious - how long are you people planning to hang on to your cars for - and why?

Background:
I am primarily interested in CHEAP motoring.
According to my calculations, supposing I had bought a 2.2 i-DTEC EX 5d, and suppose I do 20,000 miles per year, then according to Parkers the value of my car would be as follows:

£31,855 - 2013 (New!)
£16,988 - 2012 - 20,000 miles
£13,240 - 2011 - 40,000
£11,075 - 2010 - 60,000
£9,220 - 2009 - 80,000
£7,860 - 2008 - 100,000

[Note I am using parkers.co.uk data and the start of each year, and ***uming the sale value by an independent dealer]

And my losses per year of ownership would be:

£14,867 - 2012
£3,748 - 2011
£2,165 - 2010
£1,855 - 2009
£1,360 - 2008

Going back further then gets complicated, because there was then the 7th Generation... Sso suppose I choose the model: 2.2 i-CTDi EX 5d (Sat Nav + HFT) going back in time as above it then goes:

£6,110 - 2008
£4,685 - 2007
£3,840 -
£2,505 -
£2,075 - 2004 (180,000 miles)

And the losses per year are:

£1,750 - 2008
£1,425 - 2007
£845 - 2006
£1,335 - 2005
£430 - 2004


SO.. on the face of the cheapest motoring is to be had towards the end of the life of the car (i.e. 200,000 miles??)
However this ignores the all-important *maintenance* costs (new clutch, new break disks, DPF etc)

[And if you buy a car second hand, even if you get a full service record from a Honda dealer, there is always the risk some idiot owner before you drove like a maniac and trashed the engine or did something stupid like put the wrong kind of oil in. But let's ignore that because the first year of ownership appears to cost you nearly £15,000 in depreciation - and financially speaking that would have to be some pretty severe bad treatment to do that sort of damage to a car! So let's just ***ume that financially speaking it's worth while NOT buying a car from new...]

So can anyone help me out? What is the cheapest form of ownership?

Because at some point maintenance costs will out-weigh depreciation costs. The question is, given how reliable Honda Accords are supposed to be, when does this occur?

(Yes, I know that a Honda Accord is a very NICE car to drive particularly on long distance cruising/motorways etc however a friend of mine who is extremely tight on cash always buys a Honda Accord because according to him due to the reliability at the end of its life, you can get seriously cheap motoring. Any yes there is also the huge hassle of changing a car which when buying second hand certainly can take TIME. And I value my time time I call it £25/hour...)

- Any thoughts?

J


P.S. NOTE: I am posting this question in both the 7th Generation and the 8th Generation forums because I would like to see the reasons given by the different categories of owner.
 
Live is too short.... I have a nice EX Tourer and there is very little out there that I genuinely like that isn't impractical for the usual reasons. The cars in this category are pretty soulless and my Accord is part of the family. My little one adores it.

So Honda-kun will stay until the next £1500 ish repair bill.
 
Mine is a petrol, I bought it 7 years ago now because at the time I worked 135 miles away from my home, and I would travel down to where I was staying in the early hours of Monday and travel back in the early hours of Saturday.
I wanted something that was quick and reliable and good value and could carry large items. Close call between the Accord 2.4 Tourer and the Subaru Legacy.
Now that I have invested so much time getting to know the car and where to get parts, it's not worth me getting rid and going up the learning curve on a different marque.

If you consider petrol rather than diesel, you can then include the 6th gens, or even earlier. You can find some very good examples that are potentially more reliable than 7th and 8th gens long term.

Going even further back, if I was any good at welding, I'd restore a pre-1973 Triumph (any) or Austin or Morris, or go further back and get a Daimler V8 250, or even further back and get a Citroen Traction Avant like this. And then get rid of the Honda.

The thing is, any modern car with all the electronics will get more and more costly to maintan even if the body doesn't start to rust away (which it will) so one is probably better off getting a car from further back in time.
Unless one is capable of maintaining a car oneself, then the logic of relative values falls over anyway, because any car can throw a problem that will cost a lot in labour hours, particularly a car made in the last 10 years.
 
cheap motoring is nothing like what you mention.

A friend at work buys citreon xantia's.. buys them for about £200, uses the car till it literaly gives up and buys another for £200. whilst i have known him, hes been through 3 xantias in 7 years.. so in total £600 for 3 cars where he has NEVER replaced a tyre, done any maintenance etc... only paid insurance and tax.

TBH its a great was to save money and all his xantias have had full leather, sun roof, air suspension, etc etc etc.
 
I remember seeing a study on this a few years ago. The cheapest option is to buy the car at 6-12 months old and then keep it until it dies - following the manufacturers recommended service schedule. Yes, you lose more in depreciation in the first few years but you will replace almost nothing (or it is covered by warranty). As the car gets older the maintenance costs increase but the depreciation drops too - so it balances. I seem to recall that the study ignored the effect of increasing quality and efficiency of newer cars which may make a slight difference.

On a personal note, I tend to prefer a reliable car - once I start having unexpected maintenance issues I tend to look for a new (or nearly new) one. My inexact studies tend to suggest that modern cars tend to need very little work up until 70,000miles - then stuff starts to go wrong. I've seen this across multiple brands and models.

I guess I'm not alone in this approach but this probably means there are lots of really good 70k mile cars that have been well looked after and may have been moved on as they have had one or two issues in a short space of time - but are fundamentally sound. I'm currently starting to look at shifting the Accord for precisely this reason. Deep down I know it is cheaper to keep it - but I just cannot live with the thought that something is waiting to break as I need the car for work so cannot afford to be without it.


M
 
Okay I need to add on proviso - I simply dont have time to do any welding or meaningful/specialist maintenance on a car myself.
Out of interest, why did your friend choose the Citroen Xantia?
But if we stick to Honda Accords are you saying that for dirt cheap motoring one should try to buy very old Hondas for £200? Or is there something special about Citroen Xantias?

Also I concede that in practice my question is partly a thought experiment as yes, I would quite like to travel in reasonable comfort on the motorway and arrive at the destination without breaking down etc. I am always struck when Top Gear do programs where the presenters are given a few hundred quid to buy whatever it is old and second hand, and then drive a thousand miles or whatever... that the main problem is that the damned things almost ALWAYS break down.
Buying a series of cars for £200 and refusing to replace anything is an interesting idea, but I suspect involves spending quite a lot of TIME finding the next one and getting rid of the old one... and in my life time is another form of money.
 
ship69 said:
Okay I need to add on proviso - I simply dont have time to do any welding or meaningful/specialist maintenance on a car myself.
Out of interest, why did your friend choose the Citroen Xantia?
But if we stick to Honda Accords are you saying that for dirt cheap motoring one should try to buy very old Hondas for £200? Or is there something special about Citroen Xantias?
Also yes, I would quite like to travel in reasonable comfort on the motorway and arrive at the destination without breaking down etc. I am always struck when Top Gear do programs where the presenters are given a few hundred quid to buy whatever it is and then drive a thousand miles or whatever that the main problem is that the damned things almost ALWAYS break down.
Buying a series of cars for £200 and refusing to replace anything is an interesting idea, but I suspect involves spending quite a lot of TIME finding the next one and getting rid of the old one...
Click to expand...

John, (my friend who has had the string of xantias) chose them because it was the cheapest diesel car he could find with a hatch boot.... pretty much simple as that!
The Xantia is an old 2.0 diesel turbo lump and its really not 'that' bad., Everyone he has had has never failed an MOT due to rust..
his last one which he had for 3 years was changed because the air suspension stopped working.. so he was rolling around pretty much decked out :lol: and got stuck on work car parts speed bumps. next day he came in with a 'new' xantia that he picked up for 30 miles away for £170! with 8 months tax and a new MOT.
i dont quite know how he gets away with buying them, but they dont seem to suffer with rust , or engine problems so hes a happy chappy...

then again he has NEVER cleaned his car and never done an oil change on any of the xantia's..
 
To answer the original questions - two more days. I'm giving it to my daughter who needs a bigger and more reliable car than her wretched unreliable Golf . It's being replaced by a 2011 Subaru Legacy estate.
 
dont have any plans to change any time soon, cars are a bad investment look at the eye watering losses incurred on new cars.

thousands wiped off the cars value as soon as its driven away with that 'new car smell'.

i rather let someone else take the hit, next car would probably be 2/3+ litre petrol. in about 10 years most big engined cars will be in museums mind you..
 
Until there's no more petrol in the world... :lol:

I mean it's not going to die, it's a Honda ;) , it's perfect for my needs and unless it's badly smashed I can't think why I'd replace it.

I may get it a brother or sister for weekend fun, but it will always have a home with me.
 
I've never had a car longer than 18 months before, I've now had the Accord 16 months!

However I think I'll keep it until I can afford my RS6 :D
 
TheHole said:
The Xantia is an old 2.0 diesel turbo lump and its really not 'that' bad., Everyone he has had has never failed an MOT due to rust..
his last one which he had for 3 years was changed because the air suspension stopped working.. so he was rolling around pretty much decked out :lol: and got stuck on work car parts speed bumps. next day he came in with a 'new' xantia that he picked up for 30 miles away for £170! with 8 months tax and a new MOT.
i dont quite know how he gets away with buying them, but they dont seem to suffer with rust , or engine problems so hes a happy chappy...

then again he has NEVER cleaned his car and never done an oil change on any of the xantia's..
Click to expand...
I was thinking of saying a 90's Citroen diesel, either the BX or the Xantia ;)

If you want a good reliable diesel with minimum fuss, the Xantia is a good car to get, as BX diesels are starting to get rare and prices of them are on the turn. Before PUG took over Citroen, Citroens were rust buckets. After that the rust treatment is excellent, and those Citroen diesels are excellent engines.
 
Im tempted to chop in the deisel Saloon and get an estate (possibly petrol) as now our 2nd kiddy is almost ready to see the light of day, i may need a slightly bigger boot and a roof rack for holidays!
 
I'll keep mine untill I can afford a euro-r :)
 
TheHole said:
A friend at work buys citreon xantia's.. buys them for about £200, uses the car till it literaly gives up and buys another for £200.
Click to expand...

Out of interest do you know roughly how many miles/year he does?

I think if you do VERY low mileage the economics would be pretty different. A friend of mine has a horrible old Range Rover that he keep up in the Lake District, and which he only uses at weekends to get to and from the railway station. And because he barely does any actual miles in it, it has been incredibly reliable.

However in my case my mileage will be extremely high - I estimate between 20 to 25K per year..

J


P.S. I guess the next question become "how do I know when it's time to sell my Honda Accord?" When you spend more than £1500 on repairs in one year?
 
he drives up to leeds every month.. and commutes + other driving so i would presume its in the region of 9k a year
 
I don't know what the UK car market is like but there's no way over here that a car loses nearly half it's value in the first year :eek: :eek:

I have my car 5 years this year, haven't had the cash to trade up, though I have yet to see something I like more than the 7th gen that'd tempt me into pleading with the bank manager for few more quid :unsure:
 
Mr Honda said:
I don't know what the UK car market is like but there's no way over here that a car loses nearly half it's value in the first year.
Click to expand...

OK I'm exaggerating slighty and you're correct... but only just!

According to my numbers from parkers.co.uk at the of this thread, a new car worth £16,988 is worth £16,988 a year later after 20,000 miles. That is a fall of 46.7%.
 
Honda deprecation is the lowest, supposed to be ~30% each year first 3 years. 20k annual miles is way over average miles.
 
I will keep my 8th gen until a 9th gen Accord is made if there is one.If not i will keep my car till she dies ;)
whoops wrong section as there was an 8th gen as well :lol:
 
i bought my 2003 2.4 ivtec accord exec with the type S kit factory fitted.. it is immaculate and has no dents or scratches - one previous owner, full history etc etc and only 80k on the clock. I paid £2700

I had to buy new brakes all round and i also fitted LPG to it and slammed it with some coilovers (the standard suspension on it was knackered imo) anyway in total i think i spent about 4k which was at the time the price of a low mileage accord diesel.

I have to own the car for three years due to LPG and the miles I do a year. year one is not going to generate any savings - year two the lpg will have paid for itself - year three im probably going to laugh at anyone who still owns a diesel and is paying £2 a litre :) and ill sell my car and maybe by then ill be given a company car?

LPG is awesome - I get 45litres for just under £30 and it lasts between 220-240 miles and i never purposefully try to drive it economically. Resale value in three years is an interesting question - I dont think it will ever be worth less than £1500, Because the condition of my car is awesome and its LPG - and will habe less than 120k on the clock..
 
if I had known I was going to keep the car and do 80k miles in the 7 years I've had it, I really wish I had done an LPG conversion
 
freddofrog said:
if I had known I was going to keep the car and do 80k miles in the 7 years I've had it, I really wish I had done an LPG conversion
Click to expand...

Hmm... interesting thought. What are the pros and cons?

OK, I just read this: http://www.guardian.co.uk/money/2012/jul/13/petrol-lpg-fuel-cost-savings
So normally you need to start with a petrol not a diesel engine, right..?
Allow up to about £2000 to convert.
Although prices seem to be about half petrol prices (according to http://www.filllpg.co.uk) however MPG is even worse than petrol, by 30% in fact.
I ***ume power is worse that petrol too then, yes?

All in all it sounds like fuel costs are only *slightly* better than diesel.

And then you have other costs:
ValveCare fluid - £50 /year?
Special service - £120/year? (+VAT) i.e. Filter change every 10,000 miles(?)

And you loose your place for a spare tyre (and no, I'm not very convinced about those cannister things!)

And what happens if someone crashes into you from behind with all that gas under high pressure?

And what if there is an LPG leak and someone lights a cigarette?
(see http://www.telegraph.co.uk/motoring/3329109/LPG-car-explodes-as-driver-lights-cigarette.html)
...or just perhaps an electric spark somewhere?

And then what happens if LPG prices go up? After all look what happened to diesel...

Wait, I see there is a DieselBlend product that allows you to blend diesel with LPG that gives "10-30% savings"... But again I'm not clear what it does to the power & acceleration of the car. Hmm... I wonder if remapping at the same time as DieselBlending would be possible, without damaging the engine

All in all sounds complicated.
Anyone here got any first hand experiences?

J
 
An interesting topic, and quite pertinent for me. Our house is up for sale and my wife's 9-year-old Audi A3 needs replacing before my Accord, so even at 130k, I've got to run it for a couple more years yet.

As to the debate in hand, my experience is that the longer you own a car, the less overall you spend. Apart from the running costs, it's the cost to change a car that really hurts, so the longer you can put this off, the better.
 
^ I'd agree with that, especially if one starts to do more and more DIY on it
 
H Peasource said:
To answer the original questions - two more days. I'm giving it to my daughter who needs a bigger and more reliable car than her wretched unreliable Golf . It's being replaced by a 2011 Subaru Legacy estate.
Click to expand...
Wow, just noticed your post Alan. Hope you're going to stay around, as I reckon you've given the most practical advice regarding diesel problems! Certainly for me, anyway.
 
Jon_G said:
Wow, just noticed your post Alan. Hope you're going to stay around, as I reckon you've given the most practical advice regarding diesel problems! Certainly for me, anyway.
Click to expand...

As the car's going to my daughter somehow I think that I'll still get called on to sort out whatever she manages to break so I'm sure I'll still need the help of this forum!
 
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