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Injector issues

now, i like this attitude and they said the right thing BUT..... the work being done on the car isnt obviously up to the correct standard or not being done correctly.

I no what your saying its also the inconvenience of it all as well.
Iv had the same problem not as bad as you with the tow bar.The car has been back 3 times and its still not right :angry:
 
the new tool has a seat cutter supplyed with it. but honda state they can only be cut a very small ammount and is measured by a dti guage measuring in .00 of a milimetre. they supply a new washer that is somthing daft like 0.05mm bigger than standard to compensate. if the injector seat is not perfect after the maximum permitted cutting is carryed out or is out of spec before cutting commences a new cylinder head is required. a new cylinder head is a last resort and is not expected in most cases but due to the persistent blow by on your injectors i caunt guaranty this wont be required. i must say, for such a brilliant engine the germans have certainly fooked honda over with these injectors!!!
 
Need i sat the big B strikes again :rolleyes:
 
I was beginning to wonder how much re cutting could be done, but how likely is a new head going to be covered under warranty?

It should be of course, but how much squirming is the dealer gonna do? I bet is it a real pig of a job too.
 
thanks for all the comments supplied guys.

Beefy, could you give me a little more details on the cutting, depths etc ? it would be handy to have some information to take to the dealer when i get this fixed again.
I was starting to worry i may need a new head due to the amount of times they have had to fix this issue, but surley thats mega bucks!
 
all you need to tell your dealer is you know there is a cutting tool with the new injector removal kit and you want them to follow the latest bulliten's instructions on how to use it. i caunt go giving out bulliten numbers i am affraid as they are supposed to be for dealer purposes only. if you ask CJ nicely ime sure he can send you some info. sorry i caunt be anymore help but my hands are tied as you can understand.
 
Thanks for your responce Adam.

In all honesty i wish i had just driven the 400 mile round trip and let you guys do the car! i would not be having any of these issues no :(.
Is there anyway of me telling how much material from the head they have removed ? And is it unresonable to ask to see the work get done? I know quite a few garages wont allow this due to 'insurance / legal purposes'.
 
i would say that when they have removed the injectors previousy they have either scored the seat removing the washer or not cleaned the seat proppery. it may be the case that it just needs honeing with the new special tool and a thicker washe installed. give your dealer the chance to put this right buddy, especialy if it is at no cost to your self. if you are not satisfied then give honda customer support a bell and explain the situation.
 
Adam, how many times would you be prepared to take the car back before you lost faith? it will be the 5th? time now, its more of a concern that my little one is in the car with me a lot of the time, i dont want her breathing in exhaust fumes in the cabin.
 
its more a personal thing realy and not somthing i would like to influance in any way buddy. its a difficult one thats for sure.
 
Hi Adam.

It is a tricky one really. the dealer is local, and when they Alan Day they where bettet, now its Hendy (Shudder). I do service my own car but i use all geniune parts purchased through them and they have also done my clutch.

I think i might have a chat with the aftersales manager tomorrow morning ( car is booked in to be fixed again ). is the best approach saying to him that im on the verge of contacting honda uk. i dont think its right to go behind their backs without giving them some warning, but my services there have bewn frought with issues.
 
Adam,
I have just been following your story with interest, what was the final outcome please?
 
Ring up Honda UK - tell them how many times its happened and they will pay you back.
 
Just ressurecting this thread.. car is booked in today (31st January 2012) as the firing cyl #2 is suffering from blow by.

Just re-reading through this thread has made me quite angry. with the documented times i have taken the car back to get 'fixed' only for it to be 6months to a year (sometimes less) before the car is in again for exhaust fumes / injector blow by.

:(
 
injector is lsuffering from injector blowby.
its leaking fuel up from the cylinder :(
been told if the work goes ahead it will either work or the thread will strip that holds the injector down and i will have to get the head helicoiled or get a new head......
whilst the garage has been very good i have contacted HUK to express my concerns with the work carried out.

I can accept that the CS at the garage is great and they are very nice people, but im questioning the work now.
 
did you get any joy from HUK? im having the same issue adam, well i think i am.. its the first time for me. is it best to get the dealer to do this or my mate who owns a garage??
 
Spufmonkey said:
did you get any joy from HUK? im having the same issue adam, well i think i am.. its the first time for me. is it best to get the dealer to do this or my mate who owns a garage??
Click to expand...

Damo

Good point! its been over 2 weeks since i have heard from HUK. i will give them a call this morning to chase it up.
 
Aplogies for resurecting an old thread.

My Sister has just taken her Civic into her Honda Dealer - Evans Halshaw in Leeds - as there was a strong smell of diesel in the cabin. It turned out that the injector on cylinder #1 and 2 were leaking, and they recomended changing the seals on all 4 injectors. The car was left with the dealer overnight, and the outcome was that they replaced the seal on cylinder #1, (£3 seal £108 labour) but were unable to remove the injector on qll other cylinders. She was advised that they had tried everything - soaking in penetrating oil overnight - and the injectors could not be removed, and that she potentially faces a bill runing into the (quote) "Thousands of pounds, to remove all the injectors, which will probably damage the head, and so a new cylinder head will more than likely be needed".

Thousands of pounds to replace a £3 seal??? Does this sound right? Surely Honda have found a way to remove seized injectors by now. Anyone have any ideas?
 
Nala Nesnej said:
Thousands of pounds to replace a £3 seal??? Does this sound right? Surely Honda have found a way to remove seized injectors by now. Anyone have any ideas?
Click to expand...

They are warning her of the worst possible scenario. Unfortunately the injectors can be very hard to remove where the seal has been leaking. Carbon deposits form between the injector body and the head gluing the injector in place very effectively.

The following leak might give her and you some inspiration - http://www.bba-reman.com/forums/Topic92807.aspx
 
Thanks for that link Alan, it seems that this isn't a problem exclusive to Honda's. Funnily enough the only injector they could remove was the one that was leaking badly. I'm a bit dissapointed with Evans Halshaw Honda in Leeds though. "We had it soaking overnight in WD40 and it still wont move" doesn't inspire confidence, especially when there is a special equipment available.

Here's a photo of the equipment being used on one of 'our' engines.

Injector Removal
 
nala...

IIRC Honda actually recalled their injector pulling tool early january this year. apparently this was due to the jig twistingthe head when the slide hammer was used.

the problem is, our head is a special ally... its lighter than conventional steel blocks but its also more fragile...
pulling a stuck injector out of ally made me wince when I heard how they where removed.
 
Whats the option though Adam, If you have leaking injector seals, and the injectors can not be removed using normal methods? New cylinder head, Gasket, Injectors - that is literally thousands of pounds because a £3 rubber seal has failed!

These guys appear to be pretty confident they can do the job, so worth adding to your 'Emergency Contacts"

AP Auto diagnostics
 
nala... its not a rubber seal... its a metal spacer /shim to correctly gap the injector from the top of the piston.

the problem lies where different metals are used in the head...
yes it it goes horribly wrong then a new head etc is needed but this I would hope would be a worst case issue. and 999 times of 1000 it would not come to it... but there is that possability...
 
TheHole said:
nala...

IIRC Honda actually recalled their injector pulling tool early january this year. apparently this was due to the jig twistingthe head when the slide hammer was used.

the problem is, our head is a special ally... its lighter than conventional steel blocks but its also more fragile...
pulling a stuck injector out of ally made me wince when I heard how they where removed.
Click to expand...

Well, if Honda's injector pulling tool involved the use of a slide hammer I'm not surprised they had problems with it. A silde hammer will never remove really stuck injectors without damage. The good tools for this job use a hydraulic puller and are very unlikely to cause damage to the head if used properly. Yes, the head is aluminium alloy and so is more fragile but Honda are far from unique in using alloy heads on diesel engines.

If this were my car I would be more than willing to give the specialists a try. After all the problem does need to be solved.
 
I've been reading this (old) thread with interest and concern!

I shall be refitting my injectors in the next week and have no idea how best to clean up the mounting surface they sit on, as this is some way down a recess I'm thinking that something like a giant cotton bud soaked in petrol may be the best option?

I have bought new copper washers from Honda, none of the injectors were previously leaking (removal was for timing chain replacement) and the injectors are clean and undamaged. I have a Honda workshop manual, but it gives no detailed advice on the refitting.

Can anyone offer any specific advice regarding the refitting please?
 
Jon, you are right to give this some thought because it is all too easy to end up with the injectors not sealing properly. The ideal solution is to re-cut the seats but for that you'll need a special tool which is too expensive for a one-off job - unless you're lucky enough to be able to borrow one. Failing that the best solution I've come across is show in this link - http://www.benzworld.org/forums/v-class/1510724-injector-seat-cleaning-tool.html . I've used this approach once, albeit it not on a Honda engine.

Alan
 
Hi Alan, and thanks for your usual well-informed reply. In theory I think I should be OK because I never suffered any blow-by prior to injector removal, but I wouldn't like to leave anything to chance!

That was an interesting improvised tool in that link, but I'd be worried about loose bits of the cleaning tool falling into the cylinder along with the removed debris. Makes me think I should wrap up a bit of wire wool on a stick and daub it with grease to absorb all the bits and pieces, and twist it by hand to clean up the seat to aid careful inspection?

Something like a Laser Tools 4597 seat cutter kit might be a good idea if the seats look worn/damaged after I give them a clean, but then I may need thicker copper washers to compensate for the material removed?

Cheers, Jon
 
Alan I'm going to change your ***le to injector king.
 
Jon_G said:
That was an interesting improvised tool in that link, but I'd be worried about loose bits of the cleaning tool falling into the cylinder along with the removed debris. Makes me think I should wrap up a bit of wire wool on a stick and daub it with grease to absorb all the bits and pieces, and twist it by hand to clean up the seat to aid careful inspection?

Something like a Laser Tools 4597 seat cutter kit might be a good idea if the seats look worn/damaged after I give them a clean, but then I may need thicker copper washers to compensate for the material removed?

Cheers, Jon
Click to expand...
If you make the tool properly, Jon, bits won't fall out. Get a suitable diameter wooden dowel, drill a hole about 20mm deep in the end, fill the hole with epoxy and shove the brass wires in. Leave it all to set and it'll be very firmly held in place.

Re-cutting the seats is unlikely to require thicker washers unless you have to remove a lot of material.

Alan
 
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