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MOT fail

S

StuH

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Messages
374
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53
Location
Lancashire
Car
Superb Estate 3.6 V6
Failed on seized rear brakes, seized caliper, pads down etc etc. Advisory on exhaust, they said it failed emissions first time round as there's a crack in the joint to the back box but they sealed it and it passed. Exhaust wont get through next MOT, so that's a new exhaust a some point. Just waiting for cost of the work on the brakes.
 
There is an excellent how-to guide for the brakes on TA (make sure it's for the tourer, as the saloon has different rear brakes). And EuroCarParts have a 20% sale on at the moment (discount code = 'ALL20') - in my experience, their Pagid discs and pads are at least as good as OEM. Rear discs (but not front!) would have to be badly worn to be worth replacing, imo, and it may not be a sticking caliper, as the pad sliders can also often seize and cause a similar effect (but can be easily freed up).

I'm ***uming that the quote was from a Honda garage?
 
I feel you pain man. I'm in the same position on the exhaust. But there's a load of stuff on here about exhausts as the 2.4 has a ridiculous replacement cost. I'm in the same boat. I've got till may (my MOT date) to get mine sorted. Get yourself down to a custom exhaust place. I've been quoted £400 for a cat back 2.5" stainless steel custom made exhaust, tuned to the sound I want (quiet, throaty, very loud etc ;) ). It's not worth paying Honda rates on the exhaust in my opinion.

Both the brakes and exhaust are fair cop on the 7th gen 2.4 tourer. We've all had or are currently having these issues. They're pretty standard, so don't think you're alone in this. We share your pain man. Let us know how you get on exhaust shopping.

:)
 
Jon_G said:
There is an excellent how-to guide for the brakes on TA (make sure it's for the tourer, as the saloon has different rear brakes). And EuroCarParts have a 20% sale on at the moment (discount code = 'ALL20') - in my experience, their Pagid discs and pads are at least as good as OEM. Rear discs (but not front!) would have to be badly worn to be worth replacing, imo, and it may not be a sticking caliper, as the pad sliders can also often seize and cause a similar effect (but can be easily freed up).

I'm ***uming that the quote was from a Honda garage?
Click to expand...

No, local garage I've used for years. Got them down to £500, that's for a new caliper (not recon), discs, pads, new flex pipes, handbrake shoes, new brake fluid.

Re exhaust, it seems it's where the exhaust splits is the problem but it's passed on that so I'll sweep that under the carpet for a while but will start looking for custom builders.
 
Rear calipers on the Tourer work the same way as on the front, just smaller.

£600 is a lot of money.

My car failed it's MOT (not a Honda dealer) a few weeks back on .... a seized rear caliper. A spanking new "pattern" caliper for the rear was £66. So you could replace both calipers and rear pads on a Tourer at an independent for ~£170 plus labour.

EDIT: just seen your reply. I'm puzzled why they're replacing the discs and handbrake shoes. The latter never wear, it's only a parking brake. And the discs woudl have to be cracked or highly rusty to fail an MOT.
 
I've been told I need new discs and pads on the back - from the Honda dealer who did the service AND the independent garage who did the MOT - both said discs and pads on the back need doing over the next year.
 
At the MOT place that I've been going to for 25 years, they say that discs only need replacing if the needle wavers on the brake tester with rust on the discs, or, if the integrity of the disc looks as if it might shatter.

I've had services done at the dealer and they say the discs are rusty, or sometimes they say the discs are worn. I then go to the MOT place a couple of months later, tell them this, and they say that the discs are OK. They say that a lot of places fail discs unnecessarily. Can you guess why ??

edit: also note that light rust is not a fail provided that the needle on the brake tester does not waver, that the brake level is even and in spec for the car, and the wheel rotates freely on the inspection (caliper not seized). Note that the wheel does not have to be removed, so it is virtually impossible to see the disc surface. IMO any MOT tester who removes the wheel and then fails the disc on visual is after extra work.
 
Just spoke to my mate who is a mobile mechanic but not local. He said he'll come and have a look on Monday, he'll strip the caliper and rebuild it and put new pads in and take it from there. Worst case scenario wont be anything like £500.
 
Sorry, I don't know :(

The MOT chap picked up the phone and ordered it from one of the places they use. They said it would come next day, so I took the car back the following day and left the car with them (I stay there when they do the MOT, I sit in the car when it's up on the lift and waggle the wheel and press the pedals etc when they do the visual).

btw when your mate does the work, take some pics of the discs, I'm intrigued as to why they failed them. Even if they're scored, it shouldn't fail unless the needle wavers on the brake tester. The only thing I can think is that the handbrake was not properly adjusted which made the shoes wear, but even so I wouldn't expect the surface of the drum to be affected. If you mate wants to, then remove the discs too and check the inner surface of the drum ....but those rear discs on the Tourer can be an s o d to remove
 
freddofrog said:
Sorry, I don't know :(

The MOT chap picked up the phone and ordered it from one of the places they use. They said it would come next day, so I took the car back the following day and left the car with them (I stay there when they do the MOT, I sit in the car when it's up on the lift and waggle the wheel and press the pedals etc when they do the visual).

btw when your mate does the work, take some pics of the discs, I'm intrigued as to why they failed them. Even if they're scored, it shouldn't fail unless the needle wavers on the brake tester. The only thing I can think is that the handbrake was not properly adjusted which made the shoes wear, but even so I wouldn't expect the surface of the drum to be affected. If you mate wants to, then remove the discs too and check the inner surface of the drum ....but those rear discs on the Tourer can be an s o d to remove
Click to expand...

Will do. From what he says he'll strip the lot and rebuild but without seeing it he feels only pads will be needed. He said something about once the piston comes out too far it will lock in place anyway which gives the impression it's totally seized, he says his experience is overwhelming that a strip and rebuild sorts it but if he did have to do the lot it wont be anything like what's been quoted. Just told the garage that I don't have the cash so will have to take the car back, which is partially true, it would have to be the plastic fantastic this month.
 
We tried to get the piston back on the sezied rear caliper during the MOT (that's why I always go there, they charge full price, but they go past the call of duty). Wouldn't budge. Front nearside was also seized but we got that one to move.

There would have to be something incredibly bad to fail discs where I go to, and I 've taken all sorts of cars there over 25 years, with discs in all sorts of conditions.

Sounds like your mate knows his stuff.
 
Brian, are you saying brake discs never need changing until the integrity of the discs is at a point where they might shatter? :eek:
 
Guys as a general rule I change disks to to 2 sets of pads.
 
Picked the car up, got thrown the key and paperwork, not even a goodbye! Oh well, spent £1000's there over the years. The £300 for the caliper is really irking me, more than anything else really. Only thing is got to take it back for the re-test :lol:
 
:eek:
 
Just looked at the MOT, they have NOT failed it on the disc, hmmm not what was said over the phone, or should I say 'implied'.

It's failed on Offside rear brake pad less than 1.5mm thick and offside rear brake binding.

They've also noted the front bushes have deteriorated but not resulting in excessive movement. I need to check some invoices but I'm 99% I had the bushes changed when I bought it, if so they've done about 6k!
 
The front bushes need to remove or at least lower the sub frame to get to, so it can be costly job. They shouldn't be worn after 6K. I'd suggest you pop along to Honda garage mate and get the car looked over. A second opinion might save you a lot of money ;) .
 
StuH said:
Just looked at the MOT, they have NOT failed it on the disc, hmmm not what was said over the phone, or should I say 'implied'.

It's failed on Offside rear brake pad less than 1.5mm thick and offside rear brake binding.

They've also noted the front bushes have deteriorated but not resulting in excessive movement. I need to check some invoices but I'm 99% I had the bushes changed when I bought it, if so they've done about 6k!
Click to expand...
If you're going to take it back to the same palce for retest, make sure you know what your mate needs to do.

In an earlier post you said " Got them down to £500, that's for a new caliper (not recon), discs, pads, new flex pipes, handbrake shoes, new brake fluid."

IMO you won't need new shoes or discs. Check that it didn't fail on handbrake effort, if it did, then get your friend to adjust the handbrake (which is an s o d btw). Sounds to me like they were implying you would need some brake fluid when they replaced the caliper, and since you need new pads, they also wanted to chuck on new discs as well, so while they had the discs off they also wanted to chuck on new shoes. All adds up to extra time = profit if work is sparse in the present economy.

My MOT place replaced the caliper (as I said, £66 for caliper) without new pads, or discs, or brake fluid.

So IMO your car is same fail as mine, just a seized caliper. Fitment of new pads won't need new discs. IMO some MOT places will escalate the amount of work simply to make money. Replacing those rear discs takes time, time = money for the garage.
 
Going to go with what Brian said, make sure you understand what work is involved and what actually needs to be done. I've found that no matter how friendly you are with a garage they are still a business and in business you don't get favours. There ultimate goal is to make as much money off you in the sortest amount of time
 
StuH said:
No, local garage I've used for years. Got them down to £500, that's for a new caliper (not recon), discs, pads, new flex pipes, handbrake shoes, new brake fluid.

Re exhaust, it seems it's where the exhaust splits is the problem but it's passed on that so I'll sweep that under the carpet for a while but will start looking for custom builders.
Click to expand...


Recon caliper, £80 fitted (front not rear)

Rear discs and pads £210 all in

New flexi section welded in at any local custom exhaust fitter, £80

Brake fluid £8 a bottle

I make that £408.

I have had all that work done and this is what i paid.
 
Guys something to consider Honda do have min wear on disks to there standards.
Quite often they will say you need disks because at a percentage of just replacing the pads the disks will be worn down to the min before the new pads will.
But i myself will always go on 2 to 1 as i said in my previous post.This is unless there is abnormal wear due to seized calipers.
 
Yeah, I had my discs done by Honda along with my pads in the summer of 2011. The cost for parts and labour on that was in the low £200s around the £210-£220 mark. For OEM and Honda labour, I thought that very reasonable indeed.
 
Doing this myself just now. NS rear caliper was seized, but it was just the pins, although the outer pad was mullered so had to change those. When I got round to the OS the inner face of the disc was very badly scored. Honda spec only allows 1mm of wear on the rear dics, from 9mm think to 8mm if I recall. Anyway, the scoring was well over 1mm so new Pagid discs from Eurocar Parts for £56 arrived yesterday. Fingers crossed the snow doesn't arrive so I can fit them.
 
On disc thickness ..... on MOT the thickness is not normally measured, because the wheel has to be removed, and wheels are not usually removed during MOT. It would be up to the examiner to decide to remove the wheel and measure thickness if they suspected the disc was thin (or wanted extra work).

As I've said, I've been going to the same place for over 25 years now (probably nearer to 30 years). I was going out with a girl whose mother knew the garage owner, and the girl's brother had a job there. The guy that did the MOT's back then is still there, and he now co-owns the garage with another chap who also does the MOT's. They are the two that I've always dealt with.

A couple of years back the Honda dealer said on a service that the rear discs were worn thin, and when I took the car for the MOT, I mentioned this. They took the wheel off and measured the disc, and said that although it was worn below the Honda spec, it was still perfectly OK.

edit: They go on yearly refresher courses and say that disc thickness is a common topic, and VOSA consider that discs get changed too often !!
 
Mate has just been, he had a right old chuckle. He was done before I could even get a camera out to take some snaps. One of the sliders was sticking, the piston was free, he stripped and cleaned the sliders and popped in the pads on both sides, gave it a test and says all is good. Everything else is fine including the disc. Charged me £80.
 
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