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New EGR £587 + VAT?

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Accordial

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Location
London
Car
2005 2.2 D Tourer
I took my car to the garage - 55 reg 2.2 diesel with 150k on the clock. It has failed to accelerate three times over the last 5,000 miles and 9 months - from a position of say 40mph in fourth; changing down a gear and flooring the loud pedal has solved the problem.

Anyway, I took the car to the garage who tell me that it 'urgently' requires a new EGR valve, and this is £587 + VAT.


I largely trust the garage. What do you guys think?
 
A quick look on autotrader suggests that the car is worth maybe £1000-1500 if I'm lucky, even with this fixed?
 
I can offer a more permanent fix with egr blanked off, more power and economy for half that price.
 
I think "urgently" is over-egging it somewhat - my EGR valve was playing up much more frequently than that, at least a couple of times a week but after a good clean didn't need blanking off. Either way, it would be a lot more cost-effective to visit Fahad and get a remap which is what I did - there's no shortage of people on here who'd recommend a Premier Tuning map.

However, I would consider how much life is left in your clutch before you pull the trigger on a remap which increases the torque developed by the engine (There is an EGR off only option available).
 
Thanks some questions:

1. Does the edge 'fail' so that the car won't move and can this happen suddenly?

2. Is a clean of the egr reasonably likely to cure the problem?

3. What difference does the remap make to insurance costs? Fahad, can you tell me why effect it has so as to tell the insurance co? Thanks.
 
Finally, as I don't really want extra power, is the blanking off the egr a very straightforward thing that my garage could do?

Does blanking it off affect emissions etc?

Thanks
 
If you simply blank the EGR valve then the vehicle ECU will sense the blockage, bring up the warning light and you'll get 'limp mode'... the ECU software needs to be modified to allow the car to run normally with the EGR valve blanked. This is what Fahad can do for you (and increase the engine power as well, if you want)... he has a good reputation for doing such work, both on this forum and elsewhere (e.g. the Civinfo forum has a big interest in these same Honda diesel engines and 'EGR delete' remaps are popular with members there as well).

If you are reluctant to either buy a new EGR valve (they are stupidly expensive) or to have your software modified, then it is possible that your existing EGR valve (plus ***ociated EGR passageways) could be carefully cleaned and the valve operation could be checked to test if it is working without any sticking. Perhaps you could discuss this with your garage?

Regarding emissions, it's a complex issue. The purpose of having EGR is to reduce combustion burn temperatures and so inhibit the production of mixed nitrous oxides (NOx) as they are a respiratory irritant, but EGR does unfortunately reduce engine efficiency and so does create more CO2 emissions and also soot particles, so there is also a big negative side. Emissions are not closely monitored during the MoT, so there will be no problem in having the EGR disabled... on our Honda engines the EGR valve is closed by the ECU in a lot of running conditions anyway (e.g. more than 50% throttle and when the air temperature is near freezing, etc) so permanently disabling EGR is not such a big step.

I wouldn't buy a new valve, it really isn't worth it... either try to free up/clean the one you have or get an ECU software remap. I wouldn't call it 'urgent', but the problem may develop and cause more severe running problems (but no damage).
 
Don't waste your money! Trust fahad with his remap solution! The diesel honda will run best ever!!
 
Fahad is based in Halifax? Is there anybody in London who would do this (if there's one thing I've learned it's that getting garages the other side of the country to do things in order to save a few quid inevitably leads to hours of wasted time and problems when the thing has to be taken back.)

So Fahad, what's changed from your thoughts four years ago as stated here:

http://typeaccord.co.uk/forum/topic/1471-egr-blanking/


That would be my own take on it; a car has been expensively engineered by an expensive engineering team. Who does some bloke think he is to interfere with that?
 
London is not a problem.

Yes there has been a change and various threads since then as we ran our own testing to ensure switching off was done safely and emissions re calibrated correctly.

There's countless examples now running our egr off on Accords, CIvics, CRVs and FRVs successfully.

You would need to physically blank it yourself, which isn't difficult.
 
Thanks for that, Fahad. "DIY which isn't difficult." So, even worse, I have to play with this very sophisticated engine myself...



Anybody have any experience of whether a good clean would almost certainly solve the problem?
 
It may respond well to a good cleaning, or the valve internals may have failed. Either is possible and we only know it's an EGR problem because your garage have said so... maybe you could ask them to clarify whether it's blocked pipework or a failed valve (i.e. burnt out/jammed solenoid). There are other faults that could also cause those symptoms.
 
Sounds like you just want somebody to fix your problem for you which is fair enough. If the garage have diagnosed it let them solve it and take responsibility end to end.
 
"or the valve internals may have failed."

An infrequent intermittent fault doesn't sound to me like complete failure of a component. ~A jammed solenoid would surely cause a problem more often than every 1500 miles...

"Sounds like you just want somebody to fix your problem for you which is fair enough." I want the problem fixing, but I don't want to spend an arm and a leg if I don't have to.... It's a matter of evaluating the various options available and finding the least worst and I am hugely grateful for your suggestion. ;)
 
Just to add: If I deciede to delete the EGR using F6HAD remap with either keeping the stock map or stage 1, do you have to physically remove the EGR or can you just leave it?
 
If the valve is working ok and can close fully we can deactivate it without any need for physically blanking. That's how we've been doing them for a few years now.

However if the valve is physically damaged or cannot close for some reason and has been diagnosed already as faulty then we have to do it a different way and you will need to blank it off.

I can offer the whole end to end solution with plates but only at the Bradford workshop. On a mobile service I will only do the ecu and you will need to blank yourself.
 
Accordial said:
"or the valve internals may have failed."

An infrequent intermittent fault doesn't sound to me like complete failure of a component. ~A jammed solenoid would surely cause a problem more often than every 1500 miles...
Click to expand...
But then neither does it sound like something that might be a bit sooted-up! ***uming that this really is an EGR issue (?), then it causing such a very infrequent problem is hard to explain.
 
I personally been throught this, bought a brand new EGR Valve, £600+ it was, have thought all the neigtmare had gone. But in fact after 20k miles normal driving, problem reappear!! I really don't want to face the true it was the EGR valve, but it was knackard! By using fahad state 2 with EGR off remap, couldn't bring things normal until blanking the bloody EGR valve! I've got my car best drive ever! It not just bring you extra power, it bring you confident, bring you smIle on your face.
Especially I can challenge all the BMW, Audi, with my 192bh..seriously it could be more than that as I feel the throttle is very strong on low gear all the way up, so smooth, never had that with the stock map anyway ever! the remap just bring her alive.also make me want to keep her for years..
 
Accordial said:
Thanks for that, Fahad. "DIY which isn't difficult." So, even worse, I have to play with this very sophisticated engine myself...



Anybody have any experience of whether a good clean would almost certainly solve the problem?
Click to expand...
My EGR valve started to show symptoms like yours and gradually got worse. I found there wasn't any physical problem with the EGR valve and the pipework and valve body were remarkably clean. However, there was quite a bit of soot in the valve slide ***embly itself which meant it wouldn't move very freely with 12 Volts apllied to it but was easy enough to move by hand. A couple dozen cotton buds soaked with carburettor cleaning fluid seemed to be sufficient to clean it up and the mereset hint of copper grease inside the valve ***embly to keep things moving freely.

That seemed to cure my EGR problems in the short term at least. I wouldn't know for certain as I paid a visiti to Fahad a few months later for a permanent fix. I opted for that over either a second hand EGR or a new EGR as there is no telling how long a second hand EGR would last. You may be unlucky like Ray and have a new EGR fail pretty quickly as well.
 
For me, I wasn't unlucky as I spoke to some mechanic they all said EGR valve is crab, not only honda diesel model are suffering, many mades model cars too. The main reason to get EGR valve soot up is base on low mile driving each day, and soot soon be build up through the year without going away as it needs hot enough to goes away from the exhaust. That was what I've been told by the mechanic. Well, I'm now very lucky that my diesel doesn't need EGR anymore, which bring her best driving ever.. If the car has some issue after the remap, I should have said so, but 8 months so far, car runing spot on!
 
Just to complete the tale, Fahad wasn't able to blank it with a remote visit, and he's so busy it was going to be a couple of weeks before he could get down anyway, so I went to http://www.Londonremaps.co.uk who did the full job - including blanking - for £225. Great guys.
 
^ What? when have we ever spoken or exchanged a message of any kind with regards to me getting down to you?

Sorry I can't see who you are due to your anonymous name.
 
Hi, my garage got in touch with you, but it was going to be two weeks before you could make it to central London! No worries, we found somebody else who could do it the following day.
 
OK I know who you are now, yes I had summer hols. Glad it's sorted.
 
£225 sounds cheap this would worry me tbo.
What kind of rep have these tuners got
 
^^ Let's not go there ;) If he's happy with the job, let's leave it at that.
 
F6HAD said:
^^ Let's not go there ;) If he's happy with the job, let's leave it at that.
Click to expand...
Yep true
 
I took my car for a check over at a local Honda garage in April 2011 - their report said "Clutch, Seized, Replace (Due for check on May 17 2011" it's amazing to think that I'm still driving it some 3 and a bit years later with the same seized clutch that needs replacing. Do I trust them? Erm.............................no.
 
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