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Noisy or Rattling timing chain

Greeny said:
wow great find. would you replace the chain and tensioner (valves if needed) on mine or you my crank and shells for that engine?
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Just stick your crank and shells in that and your good to go. You have everything you need on your existing engine.


Do a bit of research though as i am sure the engine in that engine is a n22a2 and your car is a n22a1. The differences would be minimal but check anyway. it is more than possible that it is a straight swap without any issues. Just turbos may be different but by the sound of it that is probably included anyway.

either way i am sure you could get one working engine from your car and that engine whichever way you mix and match the parts.
 
yeah cool thank you very much for your help! ill do some reading. Ill offer him now
 
Just a Quickie, does any one know, Since Honda is so clever, if there are any special systems to stop valves being bent if chains go? just wondering really

Crespo i did email that chap but heard nothing back as of yet. that listing has now ended with no bids so will wait and see.
 
Hi,

I'm a newbie here so not sure of protocol re new thread v continue the latest relevant one, so I've opted for the latter.

I've only owned my 2004 ctdi 2.2l (109k miles) for ten days and took it into my mechanic to give it a good look over as the dealer gave me a three month warranty (up to £300 big deal).

He's told me that he's pretty sure the timing chain is ratting, but said to take it to Honda to verify.

Looking on here, it looks like I miss out on this extended warranty by a year, so I'm looking at the dealer's warranty, which says that timing belts are covered provided that the last due change of belt has taken place as specified by the manufacturer's schedule (proof required).

Does anyone know when this should have been (if at all seeing as it's a 'lifetime chain' - sure it is?



The second problem is that there is no bush on driver's side, apparently.

My mechanic has told me that potentially this is dangerous at high speeds, and I should get this sorted under the dealer's warranty, but I'm quite angry that I've been sold what appears to be a dangerous car.

Do I have any kind of legal recourse on these grounds, as I'm wanting to get as much money back towards either repairing the two faults or just giving him the car back?

Or am I just peeing in the wind? :(
 
Lets face it guys these engines are just poorly designed and badly supported.

Every ad you read when someone is selling them says 'avoid cam belt problems these engines have a chain' Bad joke really. I have sent Watchdog the history of my car and the rubbish I have been told by Honda.

I can swap a belt on a Golf TDI for about £200 cost and around 4 hours labour.

I did the chain and tensioner on an 04 Acccord and it took 10 hours and cost nearly £600 in parts. You then find out you need to change the oil pump chain and all the other belt idlers !!!!! Is only done just over 130k miles !!!!!!

The rip off in charging for new injectors is also part of the BS. The injectors on my 04 came out with no effort and with new seals went back in and worked immediately.

Honda Technical are totally useless and never comment.

Lets face it these cars are about as good as the Lancia Thema and Honda deserve to be trashed in every automotive magazine.

They never admit the problem, their dealers fail to diagnose problems and the design is clearly not fit for purpose.

BMW diesels with chains run reliably for 250K miles without issue and here we are telling people how to haggle the price of scrap parts to keep 04 and 05 cars running without having to spend £3k on what has become a rountine on a 'premium' brand vehicle that has only covered around 135k miles and has a full service history. :(

Honda should be ashamed of selling this cr*p.

I think we should rent a boat fill it up with journalists and bury of couple of these cars at sea.

I can't understand why everyone is so calm about being treated like this by Honda it is truely dreadful.
 
I now have this issue and was told by HUK that there will be no goodwill as I haven't been loyal to the brand (essentially with servicing as I have gone to independents).

Right and owning the car itself isn't a sign of loyalty ?

Prats.
 
Here i found the video of timing chain ratling.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=38OswCZORFs
 
Oh dear.........Well, my 2005 Accord Saloon (130k miles) has started to develop this rattling sound over the past 2 weeks. Having never read about this problem previously, when I first heard it, I thought it was coming from the offside front wheel, and something was catching in that area; I thought this because the rattling subsides at higher speeds (>30mph). Also the rattling sound is intermittent; sometimes it's there at idle somtimes not; sometimes at low speed driving, other times it not there at all..... (It's a noticeable enough sound for me to know if it's there or not).

I will book the car in with Honda's asap.

A few questions from you guys at this stage.......
1. I've read thorugh this thread in some detail, but not sure if others have experienced the rattle to be intermittent - which mine is. Any thoughts ? Or is it going to get progressively worse ?
2. Following on from the above - is it okay to drive the vehicle; as I say this sound has been there (intermittently) for a couple weeks.
3. When speaking to Honda is it best to act dumb regarding what I think the problem is, and just mention a strange sound, or is it better to sound knowledgeable by explaining what I've learnt here on this thread.

Thanks guys.

Really annoyed by this. Only went past the 125k/7 year threshold in the last 6 months; pity I didn't hear the sound (or know about this thread) earlier.

Will keep you all posted.
 
Hi. Anyone got any thoughts ?- Or is everyone bored of hearing about timing chains failing on 2005 diesels !! :(
 
It's probably your alternator clutch making the noise and not your timing chain
 
No, not bored... depressed.

The noises can be different depending which chain it is (oil pump drive or timing chain) or both. Or whether it's a worn chain or failed tensioner.

Mine's been suffering from some sort of noisy chain problem for over 6 months and I've been trying to ignore it, as the replacement costs are very high (I was recently quoted £1100 by a TA affiliate) so my car really isn't worth repairing (I also have to consider my cracked exhaust manifold and weak clutch, which has some history of slipping), but maybe it'll go on forevever? I'm not sure I'd describe it as 'intermittent' as it's always a bit noisy at idle when hot, but sometimes it seems louder than other times. I don't think it's been getting worse, so maybe it's a tensioner problem?

Just a thought, but are you sure it's a chain issue and not something driven by the alternator belt? If not, then run the engine with the drive belt removed to see if the noise is actually linked to something much easier and cheaper to repair.
 
Salim said:
It's probably your alternator clutch making the noise and not your timing chain
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Hi Salim. Thanks for that. What was it specifically from what I have said that leads you to that suggestion ? I've got the car booked in for Thursday.
 
Jon_G said:
No, not bored... depressed.

The noises can be different depending which chain it is (oil pump drive or timing chain) or both. Or whether it's a worn chain or failed tensioner.

Mine's been suffering from some sort of noisy chain problem for over 6 months and I've been trying to ignore it, as the replacement costs are very high (I was recently quoted £1100 by a TA affiliate) so my car really isn't worth repairing (I also have to consider my cracked exhaust manifold and weak clutch, which has some history of slipping), but maybe it'll go on forevever? I'm not sure I'd describe it as 'intermittent' as it's always a bit noisy at idle when hot, but sometimes it seems louder than other times. I don't think it's been getting worse, so maybe it's a tensioner problem?

Just a thought, but are you sure it's a chain issue and not something driven by the alternator belt? If not, then run the engine with the drive belt removed to see if the noise is actually linked to something much easier and cheaper to repair.
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Hi - no I'm not sure if it is the chain. Thanks for the suggestion of running the engine with the drive belt removed...........so to be clear, if the drive belt is removed, and I still hear the noise - what does that point to - chain or something else ??
 
nuvolablue said:
Hi - no I'm not sure if it is the chain. Thanks for the suggestion of running the engine with the drive belt removed...........so to be clear, if the drive belt is removed, and I still hear the noise - what does that point to - chain or something else ??
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If you take off the drive belt and can still hear the noise then it might still be something else (such as exhaust manifold, turbo bearings, intercooler leak, DMF?) but you need to narrow down the locaton of the noise by using a length of tubing held to your ear while exploring the engine area carefully with the other end. Most other potential sources of noise will also have their own symptoms, such as poor performance, smoke, clutch pedal vibration, etc.
 
on the 7th gen the aux belt drives the following:
1. PAS pump (power steering)
2. Alternator
3. A/C Compressor (if you have aircon)
4. Water pump (on the petrol, not sure on the diesel)


Note that the A/C works all the time whatever temperature you have set, because it is a "climate control" system,and it cycles the compressor to pull moisture out of the air.
You can make sure it isn't 3 by going into the A/C display on the console, then in the "Manual" menu press "Off", which stops the A/C, and then the compressor will not keep cycling.
 
freddofrog said:
on the 7th gen the aux belt drives the following:
1. PAS pump (power steering)
2. Alternator
3. A/C Compressor (if you have aircon)
4. Water pump (on the petrol, not sure on the diesel)


Note that the A/C works all the time whatever temperature you have set, because it is a "climate control" system,and it cycles the compressor to pull moisture out of the air.
You can make sure it isn't 3 by going into the A/C display on the console, then in the "Manual" menu press "Off", which stops the A/C, and then the compressor will not keep cycling.
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Okay thanks all. This is all getting very technical for me now, but at least I can spout some useful terminology to the Honda dealer when he tells me what's wrong on Thursday.............I'm getting a little nervous about it all !
 
PS - I think maybe Sal was thinking of the clutch on the aircon compressor... the alternator doesn't have a clutch.

If the noise is ***ociated with the drivebelt (lucky you) then there is a DIY mod which fits a shorter belt to take the loading off the alternator bearing and bypass a belt pulley... http://typeaccord.co.uk/forum/topic/11712-7th-gen-new-aux-belt-alternator-diy/page__p__131056__hl__tensioner__fromsearch__1#entry131056
 
Jon I did mean Alternator, the drive pulley has a one way clutch that engages when the electrical system is under load. it's a smart alternator. When the pulley starts to fail the clutch mechanism fails to engage properly sometimes causing the intermittent noise.

Could also be AC compressor, I imagine would make a similar noise.

Gaz if your taking it Honda I'm sure they'll be able to spot the difference between chain or one of the aux item's causing the noise, if not I'd be worried.
 
Salim said:
Jon I did mean Alternator, the drive pulley has a one way clutch that engages when the electrical system is under load. it's a smart alternator. When the pulley starts to fail the clutch mechanism fails to engage properly sometimes causing the intermittent noise.

Could also be AC compressor, I imagine would make a similar noise.

Gaz if your taking it Honda I'm sure they'll be able to spot the difference between chain or one of the aux item's causing the noise, if not I'd be worried.
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I couldn't see it on the Ling's site exploded view, so ***umed you meant aircon (which does have a disengagement clutch), but if it's built into the pulley then I guess it can't be seen. So sorry to all for misleading!

On a side note, why does an alternator need a clutch? What makes it engage/disengage?
 
It's not like the ac decoupler type which is elctro magnetically controlled?

Our cars have a one way clutch type(freewheeling) pulley so on rapid decellarations or when engine stops it's locks up (reverse) which allows the rotor to gently come to stops.
The alternators controlled by a charge controller which supplies a charge current when needed so when under load a failling pulley makes this noise?

The other type is overruning decoupler type which is the same as a one way clutch mechanism but has torsional springs so instead of just locking up in reverse, dampens it.

The overruning decoupler type is the best I reckon because it smooth's out firring cycles etc... I wouldn't imaging any new car would have a solid pulley.

I suppose extends the life of the alternator, auto tensioner but greater wear/stress on the pulley itself
 
^ that is interesting, did not know some bright spark came up with that idea for alternators :eek:
 
Salim said:
Gaz if your taking it Honda I'm sure they'll be able to spot the difference between chain or one of the aux item's causing the noise, if not I'd be worried.
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Hi all, a quick update, well sort of. My car has been with Lookers Honda all day. The noise wasn't there this morning (typical!). But the garage tell me they did briefly manage to replicate (my description of) the noise; so hopefully they are aware of it now. They have had the drive belt off to inspect further. This was about 1pm. I then phoned them at half five, and they said they want to keep the vehicle overnight as the noise is only intermittent, and so they are having trouble replicating/isolating it. They wil try a cold start tomorrow am to see if it re-appears.
I do hope they know what they're doing. You would expect them to wouldn't you...........but they've had it all day and not isolated the problem, so that's also sort of worrying.

Will let you guys know what they say tomorrow.
 
Jon_G said:
If the noise is ***ociated with the drivebelt (lucky you) then there is a DIY mod which fits a shorter belt to take the loading off the alternator bearing and bypass a belt pulley... http://typeaccord.co.uk/forum/topic/11712-7th-gen-new-aux-belt-alternator-diy/page__p__131056__hl__tensioner__fromsearch__1#entry131056
Click to expand...

Hmmm.......this does sound a bit like my noise..........but I wonder if the dealers are aware of these nifty little fixes. Somehow I think not !
 
All new drive belts are the newer shorter version which does away with the idler pulley so they should be aware of it.
 
Okay...........Got the car back today; and they've done nothing with it !! As the rattling noise has proved to be intermittent, they don't believe there is any immediate problem or fault that is worth investigating further or or changing a part for on a speculative basis (at additional time and cost). They suspect it might be the alternator or PAS pump; but as the cost of those parts is around £300+, that it's not worth considering at the moment.

I got them to ensure they put as much detail down on their invoice for future reference. Here's what they put:
"Carried out investigation; removedbelt and checked pulleys for excessive play - all ok. Suspect noise to be from alternator or power steering pump. Customer to monitor".

They've said that if the noise comes back on a more persistent and louder basis to bring it back immediately, and they should be able to inspect it there and then.

So I guess I'm okay for now.............Any comments or views ???
 
As Jon said it's good your timing chain is in the clear.

If it does turn out to be a alternator almost certainly will be caused by the clutch pulley and costs about £75 plus fitting/labour.
 
Yes, let's hope so. I'm going to get the car serviced in next few weeks anyway.......it will be due by then.
I've also made a note to check my oil levels more regularly. I now know that at the mileage level I have, this isn't something I can neglect if I want the car to last !!
 
Just being a diesel you should check it at every fill up.

Short revvy trips will need more frequent top ups than if you do long steady commutes.

It's great car, with regular oil changes of the correct grade you should be ok. Theirs not many common faults and most of them are documented on this forum
 
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