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RDX Injector help - K24

Z

zav13r

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Droitwich
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Honda Civic 05 > CL9
Hi everyone, I'm hoping that someone can help.

I ordered a set of genuine rdx 410cc injectors from the US which I have tried fitting this morning. Everything went well, and appeared to fit just fine.

When I start the car up it fires ok but has terrible knock/misfire sound and CEL comes on. Engine movement is also pronounced and you can feel the movement from inside. That is just at stationary idle.

I checked error codes and got a P0302 which I searched and found is cylinder 2 misfire. Plugs have been recently changed and coils cleaned so I don't think it is that.

My question is- I understand that I would need a remap to correctly tune for the new injectors but was under the impression that the car would still run fine without this.

The reason for changing in the first place is part of my trouble shooting a high end knock which I get at WOT at more than 5000rpm. I was lead to believe this is the engine running lean and in theory the new injectors should help with this.

Finally, I don't have stock map - my car used to belong to Alnug and had a custom map. Any help greatly appreciated.

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Did you code injectors to ecu ?

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I'm not sure whether there is an injector coding on the petrol models, because the fuel is injected into the manifold, not directly into the cylinders.

Also, if it was previously owned by Alnug then the map was probably done by XO tuning.

I'd try contacting Alnug if I were you, to see who did the map, there may be something in there that requires a different approach to the problem.
 
I've not done anything with the ecu at all just plugged the injectors in. I've tried getting in touch with Alnug previously but with no joy :-(

I can confirm it is XO remap

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As far as I know there is no re-coding (it's not a re-map) for injectors on the K24.

Try getting in touch with XO tuning

from Google

Address: Bolam Business Park, Bassington Industrial Estate, Cramlington NE23 8AD
Phone: 01670 739342
 
freddofrog said:
As far as I know there is no re-coding (it's not a re-map) for injectors on the K24.

Try getting in touch with XO tuning

from Google

Address: Bolam Business Park, Bassington Industrial Estate, Cramlington NE23 8AD
Phone: 01670 739342
Click to expand...
looks like google is giving old info, XO no longer exists
https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/06082454

The problem is that without it having a standard map, any DTC could be erroneous

I'd try to get a 2nd hand ECU for the car from a breaker's , fit that, and see where you go from there
 
You could try swopping the suspect injector to other cylinder and see if the fault moves over at the same time. A slightly quicker way would be to put the old injector back in its place and test.
 
Channel Hopper said:
You could try swopping the suspect injector to other cylinder and see if the fault moves over at the same time. A slightly quicker way would be to put the old injector back in its place and test.
Click to expand...
^This!

Following this suggestion would soon prove whether one of your new injectors is faulty. Which seems likely.
 
Jon_G said:
^This!

Following this suggestion would soon prove whether one of your new injectors is faulty. Which seems likely.
Click to expand...
possibly , because it does seem like it's running on 3 cylinders at the moment , but it sounds fubar anyway (as below), and IMO the only way to start fault finding properly is by putting in an ECM with stock map


zav13r said:
The reason for changing in the first place is part of my trouble shooting a high end knock which I get at WOT at more than 5000rpm. I was lead to believe this is the engine running lean and in theory the new injectors should help with this.

Finally, I don't have stock map - my car used to belong to Alnug and had a custom map. Any help greatly appreciated.
Click to expand...
 
Jon_G said:
But why would a map issue cause only one cylinder to have a problem?
Click to expand...

freddofrog said:
The problem is that without it having a standard map, any DTC could be erroneous

I'd try to get a 2nd hand ECU for the car from a breaker's , fit that, and see where you go from there
Click to expand...
 
Difficult to quantify 'could be' though, isn't it... Unless this is a known problem with XO remaps?

Swapping injectors, as suggested, would be an easier course of action that should prove/rule out a faulty injector.
 
Jon_G said:
Difficult to quantify 'could be' though, isn't it... Unless this is a known problem with XO remaps?

Swapping injectors, as suggested, would be an easier course of action that should prove/rule out a faulty injector.
Click to expand...
worm-3.gif


it's called provenance Jon

unless an ECM is in stock form it doesn't have provenance

a dealer wouldn't touch a car that had an ECU that was not in stock form, you can't rely on it otherwise
 
Jon_G said:
Going back a step... surely you can't just fit larger injectors without causing over-fuelling?
Click to expand...
It is one of the standard 'upgrades' people do, can't say I've heard/read any issues.
 
They are larger, another 100cc but I think it's the spray pattern that brings the improvement, I think, don't know for sure. Doubt you could just put them in and expect the factory map to be accommodating though which might be an issue if the OP goes back to a standard map.
 
Here is the injector test in the ESM
--------------------------------------------------------------
NOTE: Check the following items before testing: idle speed, ignition timing and idle CO %.
  1. Try to start the engine. Does the engine start? YES - Go to Step 2 NO - Go to Step 6
  2. Select ONE INJECTOR in INSPECTION menu with the HDS.
  3. Disable each injector at a time by selecting number of an injector which you want to step.

  4. Inspect the change in the idle speed.
    • If the idle speed drop is almost the same for each cylinder, the fuel injectors are normal.
    • If the idle speed or quality remains the same when you disconnect a particular injector, faulty injector is suspected. Replace the injector and retest.

  5. Check the clicking sound of each injector by means of a stethoscope when the engine is idling.
    - Whether there is wire breakage or poor connection in the YEL/BLK wire between the PGM-FI main relay and the junction connector. - Whether the junction connector is open or corroded. - Whether there is wire breakage or poor connection in the YEL/BLK wire between the junction connector and the injector. - Whether there is any short-circuiting, wire breakage or poor connection in the wire between the injector and the ECM/PCM.
    • If any fuel injector fails to make the typical clicking sound, check the sound again after replacing the injector.
    • If clicking sound is still absent, check the following.
    • If all is OK, the test is complete.
  6. Turn the ignition switch OFF.
  7. Remove the intake manifold cover.
  8. Remove the injector connector.
  9. Measure resistance between injector (A) terminals No. 1 and No. 2. Is there 10−13 Ω? YES - Go to Step 10 . NO - Replace the injector.

  10. Check the fuel pressure.
    - Whether there is wire breakage, or poor connection in the YEL/BLK wire between the PGM-FI main relay and the junction connector. - Whether the junction connector is open or corroded. - Whether there is wire breakage, or poor connection in the YEL/BLK wire between the junction connector and the injector. - Whether there is any short-circuiting, wire breakage or poor connection in the wire between the injector and the ECM/PCM.
    • If the fuel pressure is as specified, check the following:
    • If the fuel pressure is not as specified, recheck the fuel pressure.


edit:
you can download the 7th gen ESM here --> http://typeaccord.co.uk/forum/topic/19286-haynes-us-accord-workshop-manuals/page-2
then you'll need to borrow or buy an HDS (check ebay, search for "Honda HDS HIM" without quotes)
and if it were me, I'd also get a stock ECU to help with fault-finding
 
Thanks for all the support and suggestions everyone. I've spoken to ukcl9 this evening and plan to check with a test way first to eliminate the XO remap as a source of the problem. I'll let you all know how we get on

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zav13r said:
Thanks for all the support and suggestions everyone. I've spoken to ukcl9 this evening and plan to check with a test way first to eliminate the XO remap as a source of the problem. I'll let you all know how we get on
Click to expand...
personally I don't see where it will get you, you've had the car several years I think, and it was ok until recently ?

If so, that indicates an issue with something, you're really going to need the ESM and an HDS to go through lots of checking IMO, preferably with a stock map. Without going into details that are in many threads in this forum, the issue with the pre-facelift K24 ECU is that no map has the provenance that a stock ECU has. Alnug had the map done specially at XO tuning, to match everything else on the car, and since it was running ok, then there is clearly a hardware/mechanical issue somewhere. The reason why I propose a stock ECU is because then you know that DTCs it gives will have provenance, plus the HDS will set things correctly (it even performs a VTC check).

The only alternative is to continue down the parts-swapping route that you've already started.
 
Hey freddo. As the car isn't my daily driver I have been dealing with a high end knock which it has had since day one. My reading has led me to believe that the XO map may be the cause of this, due to the car running lean at high rpm. Only recently have I started to troubleshoot with only fuel filter and pump left. As I don't have a stock ecu, I want to try on another to eliminate this map as the problem. If it runs smooth and as it should then problem solved.

Injectors were my naive attempt at getting more fuel/better pattern into engine to mitigate the car running lean.

It is facelift K24 and I have seen very positive feedback on the littlebo flash so will give it a go.

If the problem isn't sorted with that I will look at whole fuel system and a stock ecu.

Hope that all makes sense!

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zav13r said:
Hey freddo. As the car isn't my daily driver I have been dealing with a high end knock which it has had since day one. My reading has led me to believe that the XO map may be the cause of this, due to the car running lean at high rpm. Only recently have I started to troubleshoot with only fuel filter and pump left. As I don't have a stock ecu, I want to try on another to eliminate this map as the problem. If it runs smooth and as it should then problem solved.

Injectors were my naive attempt at getting more fuel/better pattern into engine to mitigate the car running lean.

It is facelift K24 and I have seen very positive feedback on the littlebo flash so will give it a go.

If the problem isn't sorted with that I will look at whole fuel system and a stock ecu.

Hope that all makes sense!

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Click to expand...
well that's very different then, I wish you'd said that in the beginning :eek:

How long have you had the car ?
Did Alnug know it was like that ?
 
I should have been clearer in initial post but to quote myself,

"The reason for changing in the first place is part of my trouble shooting a high end knock which I get at WOT at more than 5000rpm. I was lead to believe this is the engine running lean and in theory the new injectors should help with this."

I dont know for sure if alnug knew but there were no other owners in between us so I got it as he left it. Not pointing fingers here; just trying to solve a problem and I appreciate everyones suggestions. :)

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zav13r said:
I should have been clearer in initial post but to quote myself,

"The reason for changing in the first place is part of my trouble shooting a high end knock which I get at WOT at more than 5000rpm. I was lead to believe this is the engine running lean and in theory the new injectors should help with this."

I dont know for sure if alnug knew but there were no other owners in between us so I got it as he left it. Not pointing fingers here; just trying to solve a problem and I appreciate everyones suggestions. :)
Click to expand...
ok, on this occasion I think that trying an ECU from ukcl9 is a good idea, and I'd also put the old injectors back too.
 
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