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altoricky said:
Hi Shaun,

Thanks for that, but I've already been through all of that and got nowhere.

A few weeks ago I decided to invest in some diagnostic kit which arrived from overseas the other day. No English manuals to help getting it all set up and how to use it, but a couple of days spent trawling through the interweb produced enough info to get it set up and working.

Yesterday I ran some tests and the only one it failed on was the Fuel Rail Pressure Test. Despite this it is not showing any DTCs (diagnostic trouble code). So far I haven't been able to find any further info within the diagnostic software about why the test failed but that may be just because I don't know where to look. Apparently the test checks the ability of the ECU to control the pressure in the fuel rail, but there is no information about what parameters are involved.

The bottom line here though is the test failed and as I am already convinced that my starting problem is essentially no fuel being injected into the cylinders during the cranking cycle, then the FRP Test failure needs investigating and resolving. Unfortunately, from what I can ascertain, Honda's solution to this test failure is to chuck a new fuel pump in. Well, at over 2 grand with fitting it's great business for them but quite frankly that's more than I paid for the car, and it's not an option for me so it's back to the internet. I'll keep you posted if I turn up anything helpful.

By the way when yours won't start, have you ever checked if there is a smell of un-burnt fuel at the exhaust?

Cheers

Richard
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hi richard ,no i dont get the smell of anything regarding exhaust,.prob back on to another diagnostic check for me no lol
 
Hi Shaun,

Have you made any progress?

This afternoon I did a leak-back test on my injectors. Very revealing!

Cranking the engine over (about 280 -300 rpm), in the space of about 3.5 seconds, 2 of the injectors produced nothing, 1 injector produced 4ml and the 4th produced 10ml ....!!! That's a lot in 3.5 seconds.

With that sort of leak-back, on 2 injectors it seems to me that it's quite reasonable to think that the rail isn't getting up to required pressure during cranking. From the research I've done it seems that until the rail gets to a specified minimum pressure (somewhere around 300 bar I believe but I'm happy to be corrected) there will be no injection.

The idea is supported by the lack of any un-burnt diesel fumes at the exhaust even after 30 seconds cranking. If there were fuel going in you would smell it at the exhaust. So there's no fuel going in. If there's no fuel going in it won't start. So fixing the leak back seems to be the place to start.

You might want to try a leak-back test on yours. Any Diesel specialist could do it and I don't think it's an arm and a leg (maybe just an arm) but the kit I used was about £25.00 on the ubiquitous on-line auction site.

I'm going to replace the really bad one and see if that makes any difference. If it does, I'll do the other one as well. Fortunately I've already had that one out once because it was blowing back so it shouldn't be too much problem getting it out again. It's obviously just a ***** injector.

I really think it would be a good thing to check leak-back on your car. If it passes, great, at least you've ruled that one out but if it doesn't it might be a significant part of your starting problem.

Anyway, good luck with it. I'll keep you posted on how I get on.

Richard
 
altoricky said:
This afternoon I did a leak-back test on my injectors. Very revealing!

Cranking the engine over (about 280 -300 rpm), in the space of about 3.5 seconds, 2 of the injectors produced nothing, 1 injector produced 4ml and the 4th produced 10ml ....!!! That's a lot in 3.5 seconds.

With that sort of leak-back, on 2 injectors it seems to me that it's quite reasonable to think that the rail isn't getting up to required pressure during cranking. From the research I've done it seems that until the rail gets to a specified minimum pressure (somewhere around 300 bar I believe but I'm happy to be corrected) there will be no injection.
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Glad to see you've done a leak off test - it can be very revealing, as you've found out. With those sort of figures you've definitely got a problem with two injectors. With those replaced please do the test again to make sure the leak-offs are more or less equal. There should always be some leak-off to lubricate the injector internals.

You're also quite right, the injectors won't fire until the rail pressure sensor sees a minimum figure, although I'm not sure what that figure is for this engine.
 
H Peasource said:
Glad to see you've done a leak off test - it can be very revealing, as you've found out. With those sort of figures you've definitely got a problem with two injectors. With those replaced please do the test again to make sure the leak-offs are more or less equal. There should always be some leak-off to lubricate the injector internals.

You're also quite right, the injectors won't fire until the rail pressure sensor sees a minimum figure, although I'm not sure what that figure is for this engine.
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Hi Alan, I seem to remember that you described a leak-off test a while back, and it didn't involve buying any special equipment - am I correct? It could be useful info for Shaun.
 
Jon_G said:
Hi Alan, I seem to remember that you described a leak-off test a while back, and it didn't involve buying any special equipment - am I correct? It could be useful info for Shaun.
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You can cobble together the kit needed from 4 lengths of plastic tubing, 4 equal sized transparent bottles and a piece of wood with suitable sized holes to act as a holder for the bottles. Alternatively you can buy the proper kit quite cheaply. With your leak-off kit (home made or bought) you remove the leak-off pipe from each injector (it's the plastic or rubber one, NOT the metal one), attach a length of tubing to the leak-off port on each injector, make sure the other end of each tube is in a separate bottle and crank the engine over for about 15 seconds. What you are looking for is a more or less equal amount of fuel in each bottle. If you've got markedly more in one bottle than the others then you have a duff injector.
 
Hi there ,


I have a 2003 accord cdti that has done 146000 miles. the car had a leak on the first injector past the copper seal, after smelling fumes in the cabin and a gradually worsening starting over a period of time. I took the injector out and replaced the seal and while doing so serviced the car fully . It does not want to start though and my friend a mechanic did a test with a piece of wire to the glow plug tops and said if they ok they should spark? They did not he suggests that these 4 have gone down. could this be ? anyone had any similar problems. When the car does go after jumps and long turn over it runs like a dream. Turn it off and back to square one again.

I really do not understand it . Please can anyone help me ?

Thanks Eliot
 
Glow plug relay is shot or a bad glow plug... or a bad injector. I can test with Honda HDS if you can bring it to me.
 
Eliot said:
Hi there ,


I have a 2003 accord cdti that has done 146000 miles. the car had a leak on the first injector past the copper seal, after smelling fumes in the cabin and a gradually worsening starting over a period of time. I took the injector out and replaced the seal and while doing so serviced the car fully . It does not want to start though and my friend a mechanic did a test with a piece of wire to the glow plug tops and said if they ok they should spark? They did not he suggests that these 4 have gone down. could this be ? anyone had any similar problems. When the car does go after jumps and long turn over it runs like a dream. Turn it off and back to square one again.

I really do not understand it . Please can anyone help me ?

Thanks Eliot
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Modern diesels are too complex for guesswork. I'd suggest you take up Faddy's offer as you're reasonably close by.
 
H Peasource said:
Modern diesels are too complex for guesswork. I'd suggest you take up Faddy's offer as you're reasonably close by.
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well everyone just got back from my hols ,yep car wouldnt start ,baterry flat,alternator was giving false readings .have now replaced that, and fitted a new battery ,still wont start ,engine turning over but wont fire up ,(sometimes it does)back to bump starting , has prob gotta be a fuel prob ,breakdown guys says low pressure pump ,but others say high pressure .any recommendations please ?
 
Shaun - have you done a leak off test, as suggested on 16th Sept by HPeasource/Alan? If not, I recommend you do one.

I agree it's probably fuel-related, but it doesn't have to be the fuel pump. When I had a problem with fuel pressure, it was the pressure control valve (in the high pressure pump) which was sticking. I cured this by adding BG244 to the tank - but my symptoms were a bit different to yours!!

As mentioned, do the leak-off test and let us know what the results are. And/or take it to someone (such as F6had) who can run the Honda Diagnostics System on it.
 
Jon_G said:
Shaun - have you done a leak off test, as suggested on 16th Sept by HPeasource/Alan? If not, I recommend you do one.

I agree it's probably fuel-related, but it doesn't have to be the fuel pump. When I had a problem with fuel pressure, it was the pressure control valve (in the high pressure pump) which was sticking. I cured this by adding BG244 to the tank - but my symptoms were a bit different to yours!!

As mentioned, do the leak-off test and let us know what the results are. And/or take it to someone (such as F6had) who can run the Honda Diagnostics System on it.
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ok jon_g will do the test this weekend and see what happens ,thanks for reply
 
shaun1961 said:
ok jon_g will do the test this weekend and see what happens ,thanks for reply
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Yes, please do. Although it is often ***umed that a fuelling problem must be the pump the reality is that injectors fail more frequently than pumps.
 
Hi Shaun,

Update to my post on 15 September (post #32).

On Friday last I put a recon injector in to replace the injector that had the very bad leak-off. The car started on the button once the new injector was in and has done every time since. In addition, although prior to the new injector, once the car was running it seemed to drive perfectly well, it now feels even smoother and more responsive.

I haven't updated the ECM with the new injector code yet (I haven't worked out which part of the software does that) but I'm going to try that tomorrow.

Have you had a leak-off test done yet?

Richard
 
Jon_G said:
Yes, good news!

And I hope Shaun has also had success in finding his problem?
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sorry guys not done leak test yet ,had some bad news within the family ,so will do it asap .hmmmmmmmmmm worth a look at injectors then many thanks for the info
 
well guys .problem solved at last ,didi a leakback test ,and yep!! 2 duff injectors,so many thanks to all for replies and help ,happy days now lol
 
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