Menu
What's new
By:
Advanced search...

Tarry deposit by injector on cylinder head

SimonG

SimonG

Members
Messages
140
Reaction score
1
Location
Maidstone, Kent
Car
Accord 2.2iCTDI 2004
I have been getting a fumey smell in the car and had thought it was my manifold cracking again (see http://typeaccord.co.uk/forum/topic/4910-anyone-get-fumes-in-cabin-after-getting-new-manifold/) but tonight I took the plastic cover off the engine and saw this:

HondaBurntTar003.jpg


The black stuff is tarry black bitumen hard type deposit and its around the left hand injector.

Any ideas what has caused this? What needs replacing? Is it a job that can only be done by a honda dealer or can I go to my local independent (honda specialist) garage?

Thanks in advance,
Simon
 
Shocked at this Simon is the engine cover melted in any way as iv nether seen this before in these cars.
 
An injector is leaking and blowing back most likely past the copper washer seal. It's not particularly a specialist job but the injectors can be a complete pain to get out and can snap off in the head meaning additional costs/new injector (new injector needs coding). The washer itself will be only a few quid and replacement usually cures the problem. Worst case the threads could be damaged and would need recutting.

I was told my a main dealer techy that they pour a can of coke around the injector and leave it overnight. The coke eats away the deposits making the injector come out easier.
 
Have any injectors been out before? Has it had a timing chain recall. As Brett says unusual problem.
 
good point Paul so is this the same thing as Adam is suffering with his injector problem.
 
brett said:
good point Paul so is this the same thing as Adam is suffering with his injector problem.
Click to expand...

If left long enough yes that'll be the outcome. My Peugeot 206 had the same problem so have seen it and fixed it myself. :)
 
It hasnt to my knowledge had the timing chain recall, but my ownership only extends from Nov 2008 when it had done 111k to now when it has done 138k. I cant hear a timing chain rattle so maybe it has already been done?
The underside of the engine cover also has some of the black deposits on it and some of the rubbery lining on the underside of it has melted away but the plastic of the cover itself is fine.
I have just been reading the 'Injector issues' thread so now know a bit more about these injectors, sounds like there is plenty of opportunity to mess up this job!
 
As paul said this is definitley injector blow back. A copper seal will only last so long. I know from experience my brotgers merc had a similar problem and he had to constantly change the copper washer. He then was advised to change tge actual injectors. He did this and has had no problems since for the last 20k miles.

My advice would be to get the injectors ultrasonically cleaned and tested whilst they're out.

Also, as Paul said it is a straight forward job but there are so many potential pitfalls that its just not worth doing it yourself.

I managed to snap an injector bolt whilst taking the bolt out of the merc and it had to go to a mechanic who jad to take the head off and electrically corrode the remainder of the stuck bolt in the head.

Specialist tools are also required. Take your car to a diesel specialist. That would be my advice.

Good luck
 
I wouldn't even bother a DIY on this. as mentioned above, although it is not difficult in and of itself to do, there are so many potential issues surrounding the work that you may as well take it to someone that knows the engine well. Its a pity you are not up North - HH would see you right. As Ged has discovered recently though, the journey may well be worth it in the end. I personally would seriously think about taking my Tourer up North to have a major job carried out; and my local Honda dealer isn't even a bad one.

For you though, we have so far had only good reports of Chiswick Honda, and our very own Brett is going there to hopefully purchase a second-hand motor.

A bad dealer (like the one Adam is suffering) could well end up costing you as much in hassle and stress as the job will in money.


Let us know how you get on though?!
 
Its OK, I have absolutely no intention of tackling a job like this myself, I can just about do an oil change, this is way out of my league. I am just having a think about if I should take it to a main dealer (thanks for the Chiswick recommendation) or a local guy, I will make some calls today.

Can I ***ume this is what is causing my fumey smell rather than the manifold again?

I will definitely let you know how I get on.

Simon
 
Simon said:
Its OK, I have absolutely no intention of tackling a job like this myself, I can just about do an oil change, this is way out of my league. I am just having a think about if I should take it to a main dealer (thanks for the Chiswick recommendation) or a local guy, I will make some calls today.

Can I ***ume this is what is causing my fumey smell rather than the manifold again?

I will definitely let you know how I get on.

Simon
Click to expand...


Personally I'd take it to main dealer only, as you know what issues Adam has had in his "injector issues" thread, even using a main dealer and reading between the lines, to recently develop a special tool for the specific job, spells out get it done properly.

It may well be the cause of the smell you have been experiencing and to be honest you need to get it sorted either-way to confirm, I certainly wouldn't advise leaning over it with the cover off to check whether it is the source or not though.

Good luck in getting it sorted
 
When the injector leaked on my Pug it smelt exactly the same as if the manifold was leaking. I initially looked at the rear of the engine thinking it was the manifold until I removed the engine cover and saw the deposits. A friend calls it Black Death :)
 
I have been suffering with injector blow by and if im honest with you, Im shocked you have not noticed a heavy smell of exhaust fumes in the car!

I am 99% sure that this is due to the dealer who ever did the chain, not replacing / cutting the injector seat properly.
Seeing that the hot fumes have melted the underside of the engine cover, i would be wanting to write a letter (with pictures) to HUK and state your concerns.

I am shocked! :eek:
 
As mentioned in a post abouve it would be well worth while once out getting them ultrsonically cleaned and flow matched also considering the milage you have done
 
TheHole said:
I have been suffering with injector blow by and if im honest with you, Im shocked you have not noticed a heavy smell of exhaust fumes in the car!

I am 99% sure that this is due to the dealer who ever did the chain, not replacing / cutting the injector seat properly.
Seeing that the hot fumes have melted the underside of the engine cover, i would be wanting to write a letter (with pictures) to HUK and state your concerns.

I am shocked! :eek:
Click to expand...

I havent to my knowledge had the chain changed so I am ***uming they are the original injectors, being an optimist I am hoping it is just a seal that needs replacing.

The car has always been a bit fumey, things improved after the manifold was replaced and it was only recently that I noticed it again. I must have a dodgy nose seeing as I havent noticed the fumes much, I am not as clued up on cars as most people here and I don’t particularly notice every noise the engine makes.

I am not sure if I have ever removed the plastic engine cover, I only did last night as I noticed it was a bit lose and wobbly (one of the fixings had worked lose). I did change the fuel filter in Jan 2010 following the old detailed guide that was on THAOC and I cant remember if this involved removing the cover, I am pretty certain that I havent removed it since then though! I ***ume Honda may have removed it when they did the manifold in Nov 2009 and I am sure that they wouldn’t have missed an opportunity to get some extra paid work if they had spotted an issue then.

I am still thinking about how I will get it fixed.
 
OMG, how long have you driven the car like this? A blowing injector cannot go unnoticed, when one of mine gave up I heard it straight away, it's almost like you're driving without the backbox of the exhaust...
 
how long that has been blowing i would doubt you will get that injector out without a special tool. you can try the coke trick or get the engine realy hot and spray plenty of penatrent spray arround it. sounds barbaric but using a pry bar or very large screw driver you can start to move the injector side to side untill it works free. i recently had to replace a cylinder head because the honda hydrolic tool failed to remove an injector not so different than yours on a civic. we sent the head off to an engineering company who failed to remove the injector using 30 TONES! of preasure. not trying to scaremonger here lol but i just want you to realise its not a simple job for the amature mechanic.
 
So a little PTFE won't do then ;)
 
:D
 
honda are not the only ones to have trouble with there diesel engines. you ask any Awful German car specialist and he will run off a list longer then his arm on faults with there engines. common problems on *** diesels is injectors failing at close to a grand a piece!!!!!
 
I took the car to a local recommended independent garage, it took him a while to chip/dissolve away the carbon stuff and get the injector out. He found that the injector had a leak in it somewhere and so he replaced it with a genuine Honda injector along with the seal, the parts alone were £370 and then 2.5hrs of labour. He said that thankfully the injector didnt require coding. I have the old injector so will get a picture up, it is black! The car is now working but I will be regularly inspecting the area to make sure that I dont get any more build up in the future.
It still smells a bit fumey at the moment but hopefully that will go once I burn off any excess rubbish. Is there anything I can listen for to see if I have any leaks now? The 'Injector issues' thread mentioned chuffing, I think I will go and search youtube for examples.
Thanks,
Simon
 
Glad you've got it sorted Simon but surprised that it wasn't coded. The injectors have a series of numbers on them which allow for the minute manufacturing differences to ensure that they fire exactly when they should with the exact amount of fuel etc. Did he actually have the equipment to code them as I think it is a main dealer HDS job (unsure if snapon equipment can) if not that is probably why it wasn't coded.
 
Oh and the smell should clear. It took a few days on my pug to go.
 
Paul the Bobby said:
Glad you've got it sorted Simon but surprised that it wasn't coded. The injectors have a series of numbers on them which allow for the minute manufacturing differences to ensure that they fire exactly when they should with the exact amount of fuel etc. Did he actually have the equipment to code them as I think it is a main dealer HDS job (unsure if snapon equipment can) if not that is probably why it wasn't coded.
Click to expand...
He didnt have the coding equipment himself but he had a guy he could call out that would code them for £80, he told me about that when originally quoting but he subsequently found out that it didnt need coding, I dont know where he got that information from though.
 
hmm, not sure about not coding injector. From what I've read they always need coding? Maybe someone else can confirm/deny.
Re: leaks, why don't you just leave your accoustic hood off for now so you'd be able to see/feel at a glance if there's any blow back?
 
Agree with Gav,

Although I think it is more towards confirming that the coding is correct using the HDS and if not, you have to enter the correct code using the HDS, so in essence without using the HDS, your taking pot luck as whether the injector is correctly calibrated or not.
 
Gav said:
Re: leaks, why don't you just leave your accoustic hood off for now so you'd be able to see/feel at a glance if there's any blow back?
Click to expand...

I had a good look last night and couldnt feel any air blowing out so I will keep monitoring it.

I have done plenty of googling but am still unsure on the recoding thing, I think I will just keep an eye on fuel consumption, if it hasnt improved I will think about getting it recoded.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top