szorstkousty
Members
Ross are you going to change this bearing or the whole pump? I have no idea how to get to it. Please let me know what is the outcome. If you got rid of this noise.
Timing chain again?
- Thread starter Nelson
- Start date
An update of sorts... I have just finished another chain replacement on an N22a2 engine, new bottom sprockets, chains, guides and tensioners, everything fitted correctly and I can confirm it is also whining loudly. This leaves me relived yet confused haha.
I had a probe about with a stethoscope and no noise from the pump so scrap that idea, timing chain sounded fine but was all from bottom pump chain, it hurt my ears! The new chain I fitted was a lot tighter than the old one so I'm certain it's all down to this different tensioner.
Right, have done endless diagnostics into this whining, chain and everything is fine, have located the noise as coming from the oil pump, I suspect the new tight chain makes it go noisy so next step is to remove and strip the pump for inspection
Nelson
New Member
I sent mine off to another branch for a second opinion, they reported back as "no abnormal noise found" I disagree with that statement but they don't seem worried by it, i don't believe the oil pump would whine as it's shell bearings so must simply be the result of a tighter chain on the sprocket. It will probly ease off with time as it stretched in
szorstkousty
Members
Hi Ross. I went to Poland and back with no problems. Till now have done over 3000 miles and no difference. Still whining. I'd like to ask you something as you probably know more about cars than me. On the way to and back to Poland I've noticed black smoke coming from exhaust. Car was loaded plus all family. Black smoke was even when car was not in move and on neutral when I pushed throttle over 2000rpm. After journey back off the car was covered in greasy thing like diesel. But now it's ok. No smoke any more. What you think it can be?
If it's not doing it anymore, perhaps it was possibly a dirty batch of diesel?
Jon_G
No Longer Active
I'm very interested if any of the guys posting, particularly Ross, can offer me any advice for a DIY chains replacement.
In fact, advice from any experienced person will be gratefully received... my noisy chains that suddenly got noisier a week ago, suddenly got even noisier today! I am now 'officially worried' and do not intend to use the car other than for essential short journeys until I've replaced the chains.
The necessary pair of Febi chains (parts 30699 & 31115) can be obtained for under £100, so quite a bargain. Not sure what other parts really have to be replaced, but I'd definitely need some injector seals. I guess I can ***ess the chain tensioners when I've got to them, but no-one - other than Honda - seems to bother replacing the guides?
The workshop manual makes it look a long drawn out task, rather than a complex one... any comments?
Thanks.
In fact, advice from any experienced person will be gratefully received... my noisy chains that suddenly got noisier a week ago, suddenly got even noisier today! I am now 'officially worried' and do not intend to use the car other than for essential short journeys until I've replaced the chains.
The necessary pair of Febi chains (parts 30699 & 31115) can be obtained for under £100, so quite a bargain. Not sure what other parts really have to be replaced, but I'd definitely need some injector seals. I guess I can ***ess the chain tensioners when I've got to them, but no-one - other than Honda - seems to bother replacing the guides?
The workshop manual makes it look a long drawn out task, rather than a complex one... any comments?
Thanks.
Don't worry too much about using the car in the short term, the chains will get incredibly noisy and this will go on for a long time before they fail, but if its getting louder now in such a short period of time, 1. your listing to it too much, and 2. its time to think about replacing them
The febi chains are fine, if you can get them for £100 then that's a bargain, I would also replace the tensioners without doubt, Honda only supply the newer type, this helps prevent future problems with the new chains, they are a free floating tensioner rather than a ratcheting type . As for the guides, there are two, there are the tensioner "Shoes" which is what the tensioner acts upon to tension the chain. and the black plastic guides which the chains run in, the black plastic guides don't cause problems, but inspect them for deep grooves and pitting, there will clearly be groves in these, but if its not deep and pitted, don't worry. The tensioner shoes are an aluminum arm with a brown/orange plastic runner, these tend to get a groove cut into the lower impact surface, again, minor signs of a groove is normal, but if they are cut into or pitted by the chain, for the sake of a few quid, replace them.
I get asked a lot about the sprockets, if your engine has low miles <50k miles on it, the sprockets should be replaced as this means the engine has suffers from a "known fault" which is related to carbon in the oil and the sprockets and chain wear against each other, if its done a fair few more miles its clearly not suffered from this problem and the sprockets should be OK, its general wear and tear on the chain its self in which case sprockets are not needed, but ultimately its best to replace everything to guarantee a trouble free future, realistically, the sprockets never cause issues.
I hope this gives you a bit of help, feel free to let me know if you need any more help with it, i have been there main times!!!
The febi chains are fine, if you can get them for £100 then that's a bargain, I would also replace the tensioners without doubt, Honda only supply the newer type, this helps prevent future problems with the new chains, they are a free floating tensioner rather than a ratcheting type . As for the guides, there are two, there are the tensioner "Shoes" which is what the tensioner acts upon to tension the chain. and the black plastic guides which the chains run in, the black plastic guides don't cause problems, but inspect them for deep grooves and pitting, there will clearly be groves in these, but if its not deep and pitted, don't worry. The tensioner shoes are an aluminum arm with a brown/orange plastic runner, these tend to get a groove cut into the lower impact surface, again, minor signs of a groove is normal, but if they are cut into or pitted by the chain, for the sake of a few quid, replace them.
I get asked a lot about the sprockets, if your engine has low miles <50k miles on it, the sprockets should be replaced as this means the engine has suffers from a "known fault" which is related to carbon in the oil and the sprockets and chain wear against each other, if its done a fair few more miles its clearly not suffered from this problem and the sprockets should be OK, its general wear and tear on the chain its self in which case sprockets are not needed, but ultimately its best to replace everything to guarantee a trouble free future, realistically, the sprockets never cause issues.
I hope this gives you a bit of help, feel free to let me know if you need any more help with it, i have been there main times!!!
Jon_G
No Longer Active
Cheers Ross... thanks for the advice. Maybe I am listening too much and becoming obsessed! But there is a definite problem and I do need to sort it... if a chain broke and wrecked the engine I couldn't forgive myself. Strangely, the recent increase in the noise seemed to have been triggered by an oil change - but as usual I used a 0w-30 FS (actually EuroCarParts TripleQX). Maybe just a coincidence?
Sprocket replacement is a very interesting point... I know most people would ***ume these would need changing, but I was only going to do this if they looked worn (but this is perhaps difficult to ***ess without a perfect example for comparison?). The car has done nearly 160k miles, so - from what you say - they may well be fine to reuse. I understand they are quite expensive.
My Accord is a very early 2005, so I believe it will definitely have the earlier racket tensioners. I'll take your advice and replace these as well. I'm ***uming that these will have to come from Honda?
Sprocket replacement is a very interesting point... I know most people would ***ume these would need changing, but I was only going to do this if they looked worn (but this is perhaps difficult to ***ess without a perfect example for comparison?). The car has done nearly 160k miles, so - from what you say - they may well be fine to reuse. I understand they are quite expensive.
My Accord is a very early 2005, so I believe it will definitely have the earlier racket tensioners. I'll take your advice and replace these as well. I'm ***uming that these will have to come from Honda?
Jon_G
No Longer Active
Ross, with regard to the tensioners... if I do buy new tensioners, then will these new 'free floating' types be a direct bolt-in replacement for my current 'ratcheting' tensioners? Or do I have to also buy all the bolts ***ociated with these newer tensioners? Are my current shoes and guides compatible with the newer tensioners?
I am a little shocked at how expensive the tensioners and arms are!!!
I am a little shocked at how expensive the tensioners and arms are!!!
szorstkousty
Members
My whole set cost about £600. New tensioners just replace with new ones, same bolts.
Jon_G
No Longer Active
Thanks Tom... what actually comes in a 'whole set'? Obviously chains and tensioners, but do you also get guides and arms?
Was your car a pre-facelift originally fitted with the earlier ratcheting tensioners?
Did you also need to replace any chain sprockets?
Was your car a pre-facelift originally fitted with the earlier ratcheting tensioners?
Did you also need to replace any chain sprockets?
szorstkousty
Members
I bought all guides ,both arms, both tensioners and small sprocket for pump. All this was £530 from honda. Chains I bought online don't remember. Febi, it was £80 for both chains.
Jon_G
No Longer Active
Cheers Tom. Is your Accord a pre-facelift?
szorstkousty
Members
Yes. 2004. I didn't changed top and double sprockets because I spoke before with few guys who did it before and these two were in good condition. My looked like new. No sign of use. But pump sprocket was worn out badly. And chains longer than new. Main chain was about 7mm longer when lay them next to each other. Shocking. My troubles were injectors and oil sump. Two went well and other two were hammered. Took me 3 hours to remove last one. Whole job took me two days , me and my mate mechanic who used to worked for honda and knew how to do it. It would be done in a day if we drunk less beer
.
.Jon_G
No Longer Active
Yeah, getting the injectors out will be a b!tch.
I expect to do it over a week!
I expect to do it over a week!
Jon_G
No Longer Active
Hi Brett - brake fluid, diesel fuel and even Coke have all been recommended to me! However, I think these would be more effective in situations where the injector seal is leaky and therefore the chosen 'magic liquid' can actually penetrate the joint.
The neighbour whose garage I'm going to use repairs farm equipment and suggests loosening (but not removing) the clamping bolt on the injector then running the engine to let the cylinder compression 'force' the injector out.
But first, I'm going to warm up the engine and see if the injectors will come out without any of the above, hopefully to avoid damage.
The neighbour whose garage I'm going to use repairs farm equipment and suggests loosening (but not removing) the clamping bolt on the injector then running the engine to let the cylinder compression 'force' the injector out.
But first, I'm going to warm up the engine and see if the injectors will come out without any of the above, hopefully to avoid damage.
Good luck Jon but if they are stuck there are company's that deal with this.
At my mates garage he had to do this as the injectors were solid on a civic and he damaged the rocker cover trying to get them out.
At my mates garage he had to do this as the injectors were solid on a civic and he damaged the rocker cover trying to get them out.
szorstkousty
Members
Bear in mind that you may damage copper seals or bed if you run with loosen injectors. I soaked it with everything, but best was hammering. I made a leaver out of two narrow cut crowbars and one was trying to turn it slightly one way then the other, while my mate was hammering it from the top through big screwdriver in between where fuel pipe is attached. I know that was dodgy but anything else did not worked. Good luck.
szorstkousty
Members
And I made small hole in rocker cover too, but glued it.
jonathansp
Members
Hi, anyone found the cause of the chain whines after replacing the timing chain?
I'm planning on changing mine as it has 95000 miles and would like to do preventive maintenance on it. Currently it doesn't rattle much, only a little bit when i press on the the accelerator and let it go. I've been told there is no need to change it for now, but I would like to have feedback regarding this.
I live in Malta, and cars here tend to become more strained due to the short distances that we have to travel, as roads are short.
I'm planning on changing mine as it has 95000 miles and would like to do preventive maintenance on it. Currently it doesn't rattle much, only a little bit when i press on the the accelerator and let it go. I've been told there is no need to change it for now, but I would like to have feedback regarding this.
I live in Malta, and cars here tend to become more strained due to the short distances that we have to travel, as roads are short.
emptygroves
Members
Hiya all,
It's been a while since I posted here. I think also that this may be my last;
Old faithful has reached 148,000 and on Saturday stopped. The first sign anything was amiss was the oil light (never seen that whilst running), panicked and pulled over from 32mph. I wasn't lugging or pulling just coasting along against engine braking down a very slight gradient. I turned the ignition off.
In hindsight the engine had already ceased to fire.
The dipstick was smack bang in the middle, the floor was dry and there were no loose leads or obvious suspects.
Back inside the car the dash was now advising "Check Engine".
Once I realised that the RAC had ceased to cover just 4 days earlier (yes sir, just pay the rejoin fee and pay the extra £99 and we'll be along presently - ha!), I tried the key for maybe half a second (I knew in the back of my mind this was do or die) and immediately realised it was dead. My Accord always rumbled slowly when starting, but this time it spun like a hairdryer. I ***ume that the timing chain drives the oil pump and that the chain had gone. The chain always ticked (well, from 33k when I bought it) and I detected no difference before the incident. I do tend to over-react to strange noises.
My question is, when does the chain need to be changed/inspected? The car is/was fully functional (no kicks or splutters, flat spots or undue smoke), fully (Honda) serviced and no mention has ever been made of the timing chain. The next service is still 2.5k away. I am a little peeved as my '56 plate (facelift) is now effectively a write off. The (local) garage is poring over it now, trying to determine if it has damaged head, cam or valve components.
I know the answer...
Cheers
Mark
It's been a while since I posted here. I think also that this may be my last;
Old faithful has reached 148,000 and on Saturday stopped. The first sign anything was amiss was the oil light (never seen that whilst running), panicked and pulled over from 32mph. I wasn't lugging or pulling just coasting along against engine braking down a very slight gradient. I turned the ignition off.
In hindsight the engine had already ceased to fire.
The dipstick was smack bang in the middle, the floor was dry and there were no loose leads or obvious suspects.
Back inside the car the dash was now advising "Check Engine".
Once I realised that the RAC had ceased to cover just 4 days earlier (yes sir, just pay the rejoin fee and pay the extra £99 and we'll be along presently - ha!), I tried the key for maybe half a second (I knew in the back of my mind this was do or die) and immediately realised it was dead. My Accord always rumbled slowly when starting, but this time it spun like a hairdryer. I ***ume that the timing chain drives the oil pump and that the chain had gone. The chain always ticked (well, from 33k when I bought it) and I detected no difference before the incident. I do tend to over-react to strange noises.
My question is, when does the chain need to be changed/inspected? The car is/was fully functional (no kicks or splutters, flat spots or undue smoke), fully (Honda) serviced and no mention has ever been made of the timing chain. The next service is still 2.5k away. I am a little peeved as my '56 plate (facelift) is now effectively a write off. The (local) garage is poring over it now, trying to determine if it has damaged head, cam or valve components.
I know the answer...
Cheers
Mark