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littlebo reflash Q&A

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It's not a proper comparison run, it's just 2 runs hurriedly thrown together in the middle of a dyno day., the car didn't even came down from the roller.

None the less the bump is clearly there, a 18 horse power bump where the VTEC is engaged.

I need to check the TPS voltages, throttle body may be playing up causing the flat line up the end of the rev range...or something.



Want to do a proper comparison you do 2 runs each tune at least and actually properly install and reset both the ecu instead of just plug and go in the middle of it all.

What we had here is a Reflash with fuel trim vs OEM with no trim, whether that matters or not is up to debate, but none the less it's a control.

Just to make sure your ECU's WOT compensation values is actually same, otherwise you might as well go home.

A proper comparison would involve the both ECU's been reset then let sit idle to update the trim, THEN you dyno the damned thing.
 
I think it's better to do the runs on same ecu, stock and reflashed. I always asking to do 5-6 pulls and 5-10 min to drive for knock and trim relearn. this ecu use various corrections for ignition timing so its better to test it in normally initiated state, not freshly plugged in . I'm looking through my mail to find more plots from customers, never paid much attention to em untill I come to UK forum )
 
Freddo, they all looks good and almost same ) just different dynos make slightly diff graphs and at/mt has slightly diff view, you can see strong middle everywhere, constant raise of pawa with no dips and around 10hp on top. everything else you can feel and measure with er butt dyno.
 
littlebo said:
Freddo, they all looks good and almost same ) just different dynos make slightly diff graphs and at/mt has slightly diff view, you can see strong middle everywhere, constant raise of pawa with no dips and around 10hp on top. everything else you can feel and measure with er butt dyno.
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I just took a close look at the torque curves in #54.

When changing up to second gear, third gear, etc, the rpm range used would be the 5000 to 7000+

The average torque increase in that range is 17 Nm which represents an increase of 7% in that range. On its own, that represents about 0.6 second increase in the acceleration.

But, the rev range has also increased by about 5%.

So overall, that gives about 10% increase in acceleration. If that is true for a stock car, then a reflash is the simplest and easiest mod worth making. Personally I'm not into lowering my car, CAI, etc, etc: because that brings attention to the car. A 10% increase is a good change though, about the best one could hope for on this engine. You can see what Honda did with the K24 when it came first came out, they just wanted to strangle it at the top end so that they would never lose an engine in the first 7 years.


edit: changes to one paragraph, and add the below .....

average torque difference on the graph

count the squares between the two torque curves from 5000 rpm to 7160 rpm = 32
number of squares between 5000 rpm to 7160 rpm = 18 (note: 120 rpm per square)

so average number of torque squares per rpm square = 32 / 18 = 1.7 = 17 Nm per square (each square is 10 Nm)

17 Nm in ~250 Nm = ~7%
 
Ok , few facts on top of your graph squares investigation and calculation ) My customers tried to measure 0-100 improvement after reflash , they used ELM to read vss and gps to see how correct is vss readings. For AT tranny his avg result for 3 runs on stock been 9.6 sec , and avg reflashed for 3 runs is 8.4. Another guy with MT used racelogic to measure his acceleration, stock avg 8.6 , reflashed with header avg 6.8 with best time 6.6 with hard tranny hammering. So you can easily cut 1+ sec with just a reflash.

The biggest fun here is that you dont fall into that huge dip all the gears, you always on top of torque and you always on vtec, all the gears.

I found few more "subjective vids"

Stock AT vs stock MT

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KF8ADm0X0T4

Same cars , AT been reflashed, rolling start

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VwKmuJsbFs4

off the line

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bUmu2tN5TRY

here http://www.drive2.ru/l/1872624/ you can see stock MT vs reflashed, 30kph start, off the line ( look 1.15 min ) and 50-170.

and recent one, stock MT vs reflashed AT+header, AT easily beat MT and if you compare its acceleration with stock flashed AT vs MT you can clearly see how good header is important for this engine.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G2ptaUNsZTo

Just keep your stock catback and stock air box and you will be a sleeper with no attention to your car , resonator removing will change your intake sound slightly, nothing loud and obnoxious, you will hear your itake only under WOT , very pleasant sound, under part throtte and cruising its quiet as stock.
 
And maybe this one is more objective https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8WJ5T_EAJvw ,

2nd gear run from 30kph, not the best way to show off the line domination while gearing but good to show that its faster on all rpms , non vtec also.

You can see how reflashed jumps ahead in 2nd run when stock falls into torque dip.
 
littlebo said:
Ok , few facts on top of your graph squares investigation and calculation ) My customers tried to measure 0-100 improvement after reflash , they used ELM to read vss and gps to see how correct is vss readings. For AT tranny his avg result for 3 runs on stock been 9.6 sec , and avg reflashed for 3 runs is 8.4. Another guy with MT used racelogic to measure his acceleration, stock avg 8.6 , reflashed with header avg 6.8 with best time 6.6 with hard tranny hammering. So you can easily cut 1+ sec with just a reflash.

The biggest fun here is that you dont fall into that huge dip all the gears, you always on top of torque and you always on vtec, all the gears.






Just keep your stock catback and stock air box and you will be a sleeper with no attention to your car , resonator removing will change your intake sound slightly, nothing loud and obnoxious, you will hear your itake only under WOT , very pleasant sound, under part throtte and cruising its quiet as stock.
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Yeah those numbers are the same as per calculation from torque graphs. 10& overall improvement on stock, very simple to do. With some good graphs, good calcs, and good videos, Russian domination of the European market LOL

I like the end of the video in #63 where it's been filmed from ahead, and outside, the cars :)

It's not just the torque dip, it's having to change gear at 7200 that's soooo annoying. When you reach 7200 in 1st and go into 2nd, feels like a rat's nest in the air filter was sucked into the engine, and you have to wait for the nest to be spit out the back LOL ....poor ratty
 
i would be up for a (free :p) rolling road on my cl9, see what hp is coming out of it and maybe doing a flash. I am out of reach for anyone with my location though
 
I thought you'd just moved to the South Coast mate? UKCL9 is in Devon. It's a day out for you surely? Although I see your location is now Scotland. You moved again buddy?
 
Stevearcade said:
I thought you'd just moved to the South Coast mate? UKCL9 is in Devon. It's a day out for you surely? Although I see your location is now Scotland. You moved again buddy?
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no he's closer to Devon than you are
 
me and ukcl9 decided to work out dubious UK with spare ECU , you get it , try, like it - send er ecu for flashing while use spare one. don't like - take deposit back. just ecu shipping cost is price for curiosity ). best of both worlds, u can try the brew and your car is on the road while ecu is in transfer.
 
I'm looking forward for @freddofron's feedback after reflash :)
 
Stevearcade said:
I thought you'd just moved to the South Coast mate? UKCL9 is in Devon. It's a day out for you surely? Although I see your location is now Scotland. You moved again buddy?
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nope, im am in southampton, have not updated this profile.

wont be going back to scotland..........ever
 
actually, scratch that i could do this next weekend, i need to get out on a road trip (of sorts)
 
Look at the videos (there is no conspiracy here with fake reviews/videos from all over places around the world, have a little faith , just a little :) ).
See the videos from stock vs reflashed - see the differences and then put in balance the price you pay for that - is very little in my opinion.
 
Eric, glad you're on the south coast mate and will be very interested to see what comes of this if you go for the remap soon. As a long-standing member, your feedback will be greatly appreciated.
 
Question do this map work on faclift 7th gens.
Also is there a map for the 8th gen K24.
The cross over in mine is 5.2 k RPM and pulls to 7.3k
 
Yeah Brett, all 7th gen are covered and i have a candy for CU2 too. see post #36
 
I think post 36 is missing
 
littlebo said:
ive heard there are all gentlemens in UK and can trust a word LOL ))
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that was true up until Americans arrived here in WW2 :lol:

but seriously, that Victorian middle-class morality died out several decades ago, being an engineer and not an anthropologist I can't say why
 
Small spring cleaning done at the OP's request. Keep on topic guys and no petrol/diesel arguments or snipes. Thanks.
 
Mentioning the word 'diesel' does not constitute a diesel/petrol argument.

With all the 'non-positive' posts removed (mine, mostly) this thread now looks like a commercial.
 
Just post something non positive and related to reflash we are discussing here )
 
Jon, this is about ecu mods for a k24, I believe you got a diesel and have others to help with problems.

but on a more serious note, i would be up for this. I will probably meet up with this chap in devon in due course., getting 220hp or thereabout on a stock k24 is very tempting and the killer is shifting the vtec biting point to what it used to be in the good olde days of vtec. more hp, proper vtec and more torque, whats not to 'like' ?
 
Jon, you're reading too much into it mate. Dinoc made an uncalled for remark and you responded which fuelled (no pun intended) another off topic divergence arguing a Petrol/Diesel thing, which I'd already said would be removed (they're only hidden from public view, they're still there should they need to be recalled).

Any unnecessary, anti-diesel remark is being hidden as they're pee-ing me off and are bad for the thread and the forum, as we've discussed the other day. However, leaving your direct replies to these comments visible makes the thread strange and makes you seem like you're posting random things like a nutter (which you're obviously not).

You're welcome to post and discuss the topic at hand - the reflash. If you see an anti diesel remark, for the love of TA, please leave it alone. I'll hide it when I see it. Don't reply as I'll only hide your post too, which will serve to annoy you. I'm not looking to upset anyone, especially you mate. As we discussed the other day, the diesel petrol thing is boring and bad for the forum. So if I'm seeing it now, I'm dealing with it mate. Please ignore posts. I'm not online permanently, but I'm on a lot and when I see stuff I'll deal with it.

Can people keep it on topic and stop sniping at each other. It's rather childish.
 
I agree we should end all diesel and petrol nonsense as of now

diesels have their own place on this site and should be frequented by diesel owners.

this thread is clearly a place for petrol owners.

off topic banter is well and good but diesel and petrol bla bla is just gone Zzzzzzzzzz at this stage.
 
as for the flash, i will most likely meet this guy in devon, just bear with me.

what are the ramifications regarding insurance? will it take much of a hit?
 
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