littlebo reflash Q&A

[Stevearcade]

Says Eric !!! The man who instigates most of the anti-diesel remarks . But yes, let's have it all stop.


I only agree in part though. If a Diesel driver has knowledge and experience of a topic and can offer insight on the matter, of course they're welcome to post in a petrol specific thread, and vice versa for petrol owners in the diesel section.

Eric, call your insurers, they're all different mate.

 

[freddofrog]

getting 220hp or thereabout on a stock k24 is very tempting and the killer is shifting the vtec biting point to what it used to be in the good olde days of vtec. more hp, proper vtec and more torque, whats not to 'like' ?

DO NOT BELIEVE ANY NUMBERS ON ROLLING-ROAD DYNO GRAPHS THAT CLAIM TO SHOW BHP AT THE ENGINE. IT IS TOTALLY IMPOSSIBLE TO INFER ENGINE BHP FROM A ROLLING ROAD DYNO. REPEAT, IT IS TOTALLY IMPOSSIBLE TO INFER ENGINE BHP FROM A ROLLING ROAD DYNO.

Apart from Fahad and myself, I don't think there is anyone else in this forum who understands this. Yet it is very simple.

Let's say that an engine is measured in a test-bed, with its ancilliary equipment installed (that's the stuff on the pulleys Eric), and the max it produces at WOT is E BHP coming from the end of the crankshaft.
The engine is then put into a car and measured on a rolling road (at the wheels).
The power at the wheels is less, let's call it W BHP max at WOT.

So E - W is the power lost, but where ??

Some, G, is lost in the gearbox (if you go to Germany and drive at 140 mph then stop the car, the gearbox will be too hot to touch).
Some, D, is lost in the driveshafts and CV joints (if you go to Germany and drive at 140 mph then stop the car, the driveshafts and CV joints will be too hot to touch).
A lot, T, is lost in the tyres (if you go to Germany and drive at 140 mph then stop the car, the tyres will be too hot to touch).

When you measure W on a rolling road, you don't actually know what T is, nor G, nor D. So you cannot infer E, which you will never know unless you take the engine out of the car.

Let's go back to what I said in post #62. Between 5000 rpm and 7200 rpm, there is an AVERAGE increase in torque of 17 Nm. For the sake of what we want to know here, it does not matter whether this was measured at the end of the crankshaft or on a rolling road, it is the RELATIVE difference measured in the same car on the same equipment on the same day, that we want to know.

For the increase in top-end BHP, things get complicated. If you look at the graph in #54 (presently #55 because of something Steve has done with the thread), you will see that the plots almost touch at 7200. But, with the reflash, you get an extra 400 rpm.

7600 is about 5% up on 7200, and because the torque is not dropping away like a lemming over a cliff, then this represents a useful increase of time spent in each lower gear. As you reach the rev limit, you have to change up, which is a massive drop of torque at the wheels. So on its own, as long as the torque is not dropping away like a lemming over a cliff, a 5% increase in rev limit is equivalent to a 5% increase in BHP.

But note also on that graph, someone is claiming from a rolling road that the new BHP is 226, but if you look at the plot below, it peaks at 215 BHP. So what engine was it, that allegedly gave 215 BHP from the engine before a reflash ??? (I call bunkum)

To conclude: Eric, no-one has said that you will get 226 BHP from your engine after a reflash. Be very very very very very very very careful when looking at dyno plots. Forget the big numbers, forget the plots that show engine torque or engine BHP. The only plots that are useful are either 1. torque or power at the wheels, or 2. comparative or back-to-back plots.

Dyno plots are not about "subjectivity" or "calibration", they're about common-sense engineering. It's a black-and-white issue: they're either usable, or not usable. Where they fall Into the latter case, they're a waste of paper and ink in the real world, or a waste of electrons in the internet world. Where they fall into the former case, if you don't understand everything I've typed here, they might as well be in the latter case.

 

[Jon_G]

Just post something non positive and related to reflash we are discussing here )

Who the hell made you in charge?

You are lucky to be able to use this forum to promote your product.

 

[Jon_G]

Jon, this is about ecu mods for a k24, I believe you got a diesel and have others to help with problems...

I agree we should end all diesel and petrol nonsense as of now

diesels have their own place on this site and should be frequented by diesel owners.

this thread is clearly a place for petrol owners.

off topic banter is well and good but diesel and petrol bla bla is just gone Zzzzzzzzzz at this stage.

I speechless at the hypocracy of these posts being allowed to remain while mine get deleted.

 

[Jon_G]

Right, serious question,,,

What indemnity is held by these guys doing the re-flashing? There seems to be a requirement that customers sign a waiver, but it is obviously quite possible that the reflash process could well brick the ECU. The replacement costs for this would be high, so who would have to pick up the bill?

 

[dinoc]

What is your problem exactly?

 

[ukcl9]

i think you need to read the waiver again.says nothing about breaking your ecu..over 200 reflashes and no ecu's broken.

steve please delete post 90,91,93.way of topic

the op should have a block button.

 

[toffee_pie]

DO NOT BELIEVE ANY NUMBERS ON ROLLING-ROAD DYNO GRAPHS THAT CLAIM TO SHOW BHP AT THE ENGINE. IT IS TOTALLY IMPOSSIBLE TO INFER ENGINE BHP FROM A ROLLING ROAD DYNO. REPEAT, IT IS TOTALLY IMPOSSIBLE TO INFER ENGINE BHP FROM A ROLLING ROAD DYNO.

Apart from Fahad and myself, I don't think there is anyone else in this forum who understands this. Yet it is very simple.

Let's say that an engine is measured in a test-bed, with its ancilliary equipment installed (that's the stuff on the pulleys Eric), and the max it produces at WOT is E BHP coming from the end of the crankshaft.
The engine is then put into a car and measured on a rolling road (at the wheels).
The power at the wheels is less, let's call it W BHP max at WOT.

So E - W is the power lost, but where ??

Some, G, is lost in the gearbox (if you go to Germany and drive at 140 mph then stop the car, the gearbox will be too hot to touch).
Some, D, is lost in the driveshafts and CV joints (if you go to Germany and drive at 140 mph then stop the car, the driveshafts and CV joints will be too hot to touch).
A lot, T, is lost in the tyres (if you go to Germany and drive at 140 mph then stop the car, the tyres will be too hot to touch).

When you measure W on a rolling road, you don't actually know what T is, nor G, nor D. So you cannot infer E, which you will never know unless you take the engine out of the car.

Let's go back to what I said in post #62. Between 5000 rpm and 7200 rpm, there is an AVERAGE increase in torque of 17 Nm. For the sake of what we want to know here, it does not matter whether this was measured at the end of the crankshaft or on a rolling road, it is the RELATIVE difference measured in the same car on the same equipment on the same day, that we want to know.

For the increase in top-end BHP, things get complicated. If you look at the graph in #54 (presently #55 because of something Steve has done with the thread), you will see that the plots almost touch at 7200. But, with the reflash, you get an extra 400 rpm.

7600 is about 5% up on 7200, and because the torque is not dropping away like a lemming over a cliff, then this represents a useful increase of time spent in each lower gear. As you reach the rev limit, you have to change up, which is a massive drop of torque at the wheels. So on its own, as long as the torque is not dropping away like a lemming over a cliff, a 5% increase in rev limit is equivalent to a 5% increase in BHP.

But note also on that graph, someone is claiming from a rolling road that the new BHP is 226, but if you look at the plot below, it peaks at 215 BHP. So what engine was it, that allegedly gave 215 BHP from the engine before a reflash ??? (I call bunkum)

To conclude: Eric, no-one has said that you will get 226 BHP from your engine after a reflash. Be very very very very very very very careful when looking at dyno plots. Forget the big numbers, forget the plots that show engine torque or engine BHP. The only plots that are useful are either 1. torque or power at the wheels, or 2. comparative or back-to-back plots.

Dyno plots are not about "subjectivity" or "calibration", they're about common-sense engineering. It's a black-and-white issue: they're either usable, or not usable. Where they fall Into the latter case, they're a waste of paper and ink in the real world, or a waste of electrons in the internet world. Where they fall into the former case, if you don't understand everything I've typed here, they might as well be in the latter case.

calm down, cl9 is donig a rolling road of his, I will see what hp he gets but he will have mods. I would be very surprised if mine did not get at least 210hp with a map.

 

[toffee_pie]

Right, serious question,,,

What indemnity is held by these guys doing the re-flashing? There seems to be a requirement that customers sign a waiver, but it is obviously quite possible that the reflash process could well brick the ECU. The replacement costs for this would be high, so who would have to pick up the bill?

this is valid i guess, what about a bricked ecu.

I ***ume the waiver would remove all chances of getting a new ecu.

but flashing ecu's is as old as the t-rex, hasnt this been common place in the usa for ages dont see what the big deal is.

 

[toffee_pie]

I speechless at the hypocracy of these posts being allowed to remain while mine get deleted.

come on your favouritism towards diesel is just annoying at this stage and you are poking your nose on places.. well you shouldn't

this thread got absolutely nowt to do with diesels in fairness.

diesel and petrol rants i am fed up with tbh, waste of time.

 

[Jon_G]

i think you need to read the waiver again.says nothing about breaking your ecu..over 200 reflashes and no ecu's broken..

I have just read the waiver, here it is...

littlebo reflash Q&A...
Q.ukcl9 can i hold you responsible if a problem comes to light after the reflash
A.NO

Q.Do i have to sign a waiver
A.yes.its says
1.i am not responsible for any problems/damages that occures to your car after the reflash
2.you understand this is not my reflash.i only help install the reflash to your ecu.
i will pm you the waiver,so you can print and sign it.and send in the post with your ecu

It is not clear whether damage caused to the customers ECU would be compensated for or not by you. Maybe if you had written out the full wording of the waiver this might be obvious, so maybe you should post the actual waiver wording. Obviously if you were a garage then such questions wound not be necessary, but you appear to be a collection of individuals and not a registered company.

But to be clear, if the reflash (or poor handling, or inadequate electro-static precautions) does damage the ECU, would you fully compensate the customer? A simple yes or no is all that you need to say!

 

[Stevearcade]

Woah! Can everyone calm down please (again... )

Firstly, thank you Brian, that post about dynos is very useful.

Jon, I left Eric's posts in as you'll notice I commented in direct reply to his comments and made it clear that everyone is entitled to post in either petrol or diesel threads.

Some clarity for all concerned:

Littlebo and UKCL9 have not been given the official green light to trade on the forum by the admin in the same way as say Opie Oils are. However, the long standing search by many 2.4 owners here in the UK for a solution to the remap means that right now we're looking to see how this plays out. It's too early to jump to any conclusions and so we're monitoring the situation. My advice would be:

UKCL9, Littlebo, Dinoc, please only answer questions and provide helpful advice. The customer is always right. As discussed, people have a right to be curious and sceptical. Don't take it as an insult against your work if people doubt it at first. If you're product is as good as you say it is, it will sell itself over time. Simple as. No one likes a pushy seller, OK!. With that in mind, if it doesn't need to be said, don't say it. Whether you mean to or not, you seem to wind certain people up with your tone and winding people up is no way to generate customer support.

All people are entitled to comment and ask questions - even if they don't intend on getting a remap - they may just be looking out for the best interests of the community

But, can we please all be patient with each other and not dive in angrily with both feet. Re-read a post before clicking submit reply. Is there anything in there that could be upsetting? Should it perhaps be left out? We're human beings typing on a forum. Would you all wind each other up like this if you were talking face to face?

Please can everyone take it easy and just give this one some time. Stop coming in to this thread with the dials set to 11.

Right, let's try this one more time. Back on topic please fellas.

 

[jonhond]

B) Indeed Steve!!

Just to be concerned about the reflash on the K24. The diesel is well catered for and sure Fahad his hands full...hope not to presumptuous!! There again, I am sure there is a warranty issue of sorts with that remap and that alleviates any worries customers may have regarding their ecu's.

I think, despite the success of the reflash and it's use already albeit relatively low numbers, some sort of guarantee could be considered when it is trialled and a proven product further down the line. I take into account littlebo and ukcl9 are not a business, and it's the customer's choice to take the risk. May be small but still there.

I, for one, would want the reflash like many guys and gals on here. Just think it's sensible to wait a little while, see how the user's feedback goes in the next 6 months or so and that will build up confidence and littlebo and ukcl9's customers.

After all, it's a similar price to Fahad's so, at some point, maybe a little security could be offered?

I don't doubt there are improvements in performance in all the right places so congratulations to the guys putting the effort in to reach those Honda left behind!lol!

Jon

 

[littlebo]

Steve, im trying to make my wind cozy. its a hobby and the most important thing is to make honda bro happy and smiling when he push da pedal, so Id also like to build this tread in a positive manner.

So the answers are :

I had this discussion few years ago with mustang dynamometer rep and he said that dyno builders use some fixed coefficients to calculate crank power out of WHP. yep , its not 100% correct but theyve done some research and comparsions of motor dyno and wheels dyno about what approx number to use for most precise calculation. I also dont think its possible to precisely recalculate whp into bhp , but since we dont have hub dynos really common we can use that as target but only when we speak about 1 given dyno. Not about same dynos but located in different places or different type\manufacturer dynos. Only 1 exact dyno will give us result that we can compare if needed. To avoid these speculations US guys always use WHP in discussions, i think we can do the same thing. I posted different dynos with different numbers which you can take or not but curves are all the same there to see the benefit. Freddo been even able to calculate some %% out of em ) Which is new stuff for me. Ill try to improve y dyno sheet reading exp with his help.

Next thing. Its impossible to damage ECU in the way i flash it. Untill you drop a solder material on the PCB and make a short or use some aggressive acid flux. Those mistakes has been happened with my dealers in the past but all 3 ECUs been returned to normal operational state, except one, dealer burnt his own ECU.
Waiver been invented to protect dealer from brainsuckers, who can crash their car and then blame a guy that after reflash car moved too fast and unpredictable, not to avoid all responsibility. I give my guys who help me very precise instructions based on previous fault experience to avoid any bugs in future and I give full warranty for job and your ECU safety and in case of failure ill replace it. Its difficult thing to manage it since any1 can blame you once you touched his ECU. Heres few examples out of my own experience.

1. Guy shipped me ECU for reflash, as far as you can uderstand i cant test its functionality when its not in the car. So i flashed it and shipped back as usual. In next few days he claimed that car started to consume too much fuel and his exhaust pipes are black and car is lil jerky under part throttle. It was a first claim and i started to think wth is going on. I sent him to my buddy in his city for diag and he told me that o2 sensor input works incorrectly , ECU is faulty,without any signs of mechanical, electrical or water damage though. I dunno where i get that idea but i asked my buddy to call their local dealeship and asked if someone made ECU swaps recently. And what do you think ? They confirmed that guy on black car made ECU swap recently. Without any details of course. Then i asked that guy why he is trying to scam me ??? And he told me that he was afraid that i can burn his ECU and he got one for cheap at junkyard to make an experiment. I forwarded him to my buddy to drop both ECUs , he marked em and shipped to me, i flashed faulty back to stock and relashed his native one, shipped back, dealer matched immo again and it runs perfectly till this day. Guy made a big excuse, but that excuse cost me some twisted nerves...

2. I flashed an ECU as usual, guy was happy and so on. in 2 months he called me and said that car not start and ECU not responds to diag, its dead. He didnt said i burnt his ECU , just asked me to help him to solve the problem. During discussion we found out that only procedure with car he did after reflash been AC cleaning. We found then that cleaning company filled his AC evaporator with some cleaning fluid through its drain hose and amount of that fluid been too big for CL9, excessive fluid overfilled evaporator, run away and used wire looms as capillars to enter the ECU and damage it. I spent 3 days generating ideas about WTH and where he can look at. So... He brought his his ECU to my buddy , he cleaned it with ultrasonic, also cleaned all ECU connectors and... its working now ! Now the question. Do i have to cover such problems at my own cost ?? When 99% of trobles arent reflash related. Sorry fellas for this offtop, i justed wanted to show you other side of medal and riscs involved.

 

[freddofrog]

DO NOT BELIEVE ANY NUMBERS ON ROLLING-ROAD DYNO GRAPHS THAT CLAIM TO SHOW BHP AT THE ENGINE. IT IS TOTALLY IMPOSSIBLE TO INFER ENGINE BHP FROM A ROLLING ROAD DYNO. REPEAT, IT IS TOTALLY IMPOSSIBLE TO INFER ENGINE BHP FROM A ROLLING ROAD DYNO.

Apart from Fahad and myself, I don't think there is anyone else in this forum who understands this. Yet it is very simple.

Let's say that an engine is measured in a test-bed, with its ancilliary equipment installed (that's the stuff on the pulleys Eric), and the max it produces at WOT is E BHP coming from the end of the crankshaft.
The engine is then put into a car and measured on a rolling road (at the wheels).
The power at the wheels is less, let's call it W BHP max at WOT.

So E - W is the power lost, but where ??

Some, G, is lost in the gearbox (if you go to Germany and drive at 140 mph then stop the car, the gearbox will be too hot to touch).
Some, D, is lost in the driveshafts and CV joints (if you go to Germany and drive at 140 mph then stop the car, the driveshafts and CV joints will be too hot to touch).
A lot, T, is lost in the tyres (if you go to Germany and drive at 140 mph then stop the car, the tyres will be too hot to touch).

When you measure W on a rolling road, you don't actually know what T is, nor G, nor D. So you cannot infer E, which you will never know unless you take the engine out of the car.

Let's go back to what I said in post #62. Between 5000 rpm and 7200 rpm, there is an AVERAGE increase in torque of 17 Nm. For the sake of what we want to know here, it does not matter whether this was measured at the end of the crankshaft or on a rolling road, it is the RELATIVE difference measured in the same car on the same equipment on the same day, that we want to know.

For the increase in top-end BHP, things get complicated. If you look at the graph in #54 (presently #55 because of something Steve has done with the thread), you will see that the plots almost touch at 7200. But, with the reflash, you get an extra 400 rpm.

7600 is about 5% up on 7200, and because the torque is not dropping away like a lemming over a cliff, then this represents a useful increase of time spent in each lower gear. As you reach the rev limit, you have to change up, which is a massive drop of torque at the wheels. So on its own, as long as the torque is not dropping away like a lemming over a cliff, a 5% increase in rev limit is equivalent to a 5% increase in BHP.

But note also on that graph, someone is claiming from a rolling road that the new BHP is 226, but if you look at the plot below, it peaks at 215 BHP. So what engine was it, that allegedly gave 215 BHP from the engine before a reflash ??? (I call bunkum)

To conclude: Eric, no-one has said that you will get 226 BHP from your engine after a reflash. Be very very very very very very very careful when looking at dyno plots. Forget the big numbers, forget the plots that show engine torque or engine BHP. The only plots that are useful are either 1. torque or power at the wheels, or 2. comparative or back-to-back plots.

Dyno plots are not about "subjectivity" or "calibration", they're about common-sense engineering. It's a black-and-white issue: they're either usable, or not usable. Where they fall Into the latter case, they're a waste of paper and ink in the real world, or a waste of electrons in the internet world. Where they fall into the former case, if you don't understand everything I've typed here, they might as well be in the latter case.

calm down, cl9 is donig a rolling road of his, I will see what hp he gets but he will have mods. I would be very surprised if mine did not get at least 210hp with a map.

Eric, you put your text in the wrong place.
Your text is "calm down, cl9 is donig a rolling road of his, I will see what hp he gets but he will have mods. I would be very surprised if mine did not get at least 210hp with a map".

In particular, let's take " I would be very surprised if mine did not get at least 210hp with a map".

Eric, if your stock CL9 engine is presently giving 190 BHP (which I doubt), the most you will get is a 5% increase. You are crazy if you think that a reflash is going to lift your BHP on your stock CL9 up to 210 BHP, utterly mad.

What it will give, is an increase of about 10% in acceleration time, for reasons I mention above and in #62.

THIS IS THE PROBLEM WITH THIS TYPE OF THREAD, WHERE NO-ONE REALLY UNDERSTANDS THE BASICS.
Videos are useless IMO.
Graphs are useless unless an engineering perspective accompanies them.

It's not about BHP Eric, it's about something else, to do with the way that car acceleration works.

EDIT: a couple of the videos do dovetail nicely with one of the dyno graphs. The corroboration is there IMO.
But no-one has claimed that this reflash (or any other) will lift the BHP by the numbers that excitable Eric is putting.

I think that what can be agreed, is that the reflash can increase acceleration time by ~10% in the lower gears.

 

[jonhond]

Thanks to littlebo for giving more feedback, especially on warranty and replacement. Think that will calm a few nerves!!

Jon

 

[littlebo]

I agree that acceleration isnt really just a BHP. its also a tranny that works with engine to accelerate your car. Dont look at top numbers, they been increased "just" 8-10hp , the biggest difference is in the midle , where all acceleration occurs and where all gearing is. Top end power change never speaks about real life performance change. Good numbers helps to sell the cars, ppl always look at those numbers...
For example, i tried ssang young corrando for my wife. Yeah , its turbo diesel ! On paper , 2.0 engine produce massive 185hp ... On the road test the engine is dead , combination of how its been tuned and how its release torque with its tranny is ridiculous. Then i was able to get a factory torque and hp graph and found same thing i found on the road - its useful only around 1.5k rpms out of its 4k, all other rpms its produces just noise.

So lets help each other to understand the nature of engine more deeply with such discussions.

 

[littlebo]

Btw, flashing 2 ECUs for OZ guys right now with fredoops, will post some subjective feedbacks and impressions then ))

 

[littlebo]

And as for 226 hp on posted plot. That car has good intake, which is 4-5 hp on top for stock engine , header with decat , which is around 20 hp of top end power on stock car. so it produced around 215 hp before reflash. Reflash works more efficiently with well breathing engine and it gained 11 hp on top compared to avg 8-9 hp for bone stock engine. Comparing this result with other resuts and combinations of parts dynoed before i can conclude that 225 crank hp with intake exhaust and reflash is almost real number. ukcl9 have header, catback, reflash and he gonna dyno it soon . Lets see if his hp will be close to 225-230 ) Then we can continue to discuss this. Lmk if you need plots with intake or header testing, i have some stored somewhere ))

 

[freddofrog]

^ no more likes left

number of likes needs sorting out :angry:

 

[littlebo]

Lol ) I know you like me even without likeys !

One more important and mostly subjective thing here is part throttle performance and overall improvement of control.

Mr Freddo, please let us know how to test and research those points besides butt dyno ? How to convert into digits or pictures a feedback statements like - i feel that car follows my leg and respond is instant now, or something like - i change gears less often coz it pulls better, and also this one , as one of the factors of fuel economy - now i dont need to rev it that high coz it starts to pull earlier. I can find more non video or dyno related subjective statements of long term testings if needed. Its sad that Victorian time is gone and yankees spoiled lots of gentlemens ... So lets try to figure that out for those who dont trust any word.

 

[freddofrog]

Hahaha
well you could put an acceleromoter on the passenger seat and record it with throttle position
and you could take the engine out and put it on a proper dyno and do the full BSFC and BMEP plots

Maybe everything went wrong when the proletariat took over LOL.
In 1900 the Kings of Russia & Germany & Britain were cousins, Queen Victoria kept them in check, then she died :wub: and 30 years later Hitler and Stalin get to the top of their trees and over here we get the Saxe-Coburg's, then the Americans take advantage of it all LOL

 

[toffee_pie]

i said a while back the main thing about a reflash is changing the biting point, that in itself will change the car a massive way. hp increase or not.

I can do a rolling road on my car in devon, i am pretty sure it would max out at close to 190hp. Can take bets*

Can I do a flash myself? I have access to all the kit and being an electronic guru soldering tiny footprints is nothing new to me.

of course the disclaimer is at my own wrath.



*max £50 per customer

 

[freddofrog]

the main thing about a reflash is changing the biting point,

you need to see a dentist for that :lol:

 

[freddofrog]

I can do a rolling road on my car in devon, i am pretty sure it would max out at close to 190hp. Can take bets*

"So", says the old lady with the tea leaves, "you want to know if the engine in your car is 190 hp. Let me see, yes, yes, I have to make a few adjustments to the tea leaves, but here we are, the leaves say 190 hp. We can take a picture and you can pay on the way out my friend".

 

[freddofrog]

I have access to all the kit and being an electronic guru soldering tiny footprints is nothing new to me.

 

[littlebo]

Tea leaves is an old school, I prefer crystal sphere to measure hp ) way mo compact, no dust, easy to store, works with all engines, b, h, j , k !

 

[toffee_pie]

you need to see a dentist for that :lol:

lol, yaya

 

[toffee_pie]

back to the re-flash, what exactly is done. Brain doesn't know a TSSOP from a MSOP I am sure but I curious what components are replaced and how you do it.

 

[freddofrog]

back to the re-flash, what exactly is done. Brain doesn't know a TSSOP from a MSOP I am sure but I curious what components are replaced and how you do it.

I know a TOSSPOT when he writes nonsense.

"I curious what components are replaced and how you do it. " .....I don't expect Sergey or anyone else to tell you anything.

Why don't you email Honda and suss it yourself ....."Dear Mr Honda, I am curious about the ECU in my car, can you send me a circuit diagram of the ECU and a description, maybe I can return the favour in the future with a time travel machine I am making, it could become part of Honda Dreams"