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Facelift ECU in pre-facelift?

According to this thread, remapping a 2003 is possible? Was there any further progress on this from Farah or anyone else?

http://typeaccord.co.uk/forum/topic/12375-its-official-you-can-remap-a-2003-accod-24-type-s/page__st__40
 
Fahad, was there any news on this?
 
Hi guys,

I'm from Australia and I figured I'd chip in and share what I've found so far, I've been digging into this for a while now, mostly deadends until....

By pure chance I can across a Chinese chip tuner site, they have tuned, using Piasini, an 2006 model Acura TL (can't find the site anymore, pity)

Now that might seem irrelevant, but they were kind enough to leave some pics on their site and I saw the chip board-----> it's identical to the post facelift CL9 (2.4L) ecu I have laying on the desk,

Ie: it looks like this:
http://m1103.photobucket.com/albumview/albums/btg_pics/ECU/IMAG0379.jpg

Therefore it must be the case that Piasini had figured out the TL ECU, in turn it had done the 2.4 Litre CL9 as well.

EDIT: the Russians had flashed the above ecu design as well using piasini:
http://www.drive2.ru/cars/honda/accord/accord_7th_generation/voodoo777/journal/58994/

Which lead to another point, it seems like there are 2 main chip designs for the 7th gen? One for the 2.0 Litre and one for the 2.4 Litre?

Or would that be a preface lift vs post facelift thing?
 
Hi Fredo,

Thanks for the input man. The 2003-2005 CL9s have a different ECU from the late 2005-2008s. I.e. pre and post facelift. The facelift can be remapped no problem. The pre facelift is the tricky one. It's not the engine or the map, simply getting into the chipset in the first instance.

There are reports on this site of a couple of tuners who've cracked it and I believe Premier Tuning (Fahad on here) is looking into it also. There's no doubt the pre facelift can be done, it's just a matter of finding somewhere nearby and not too expensive to do it.

When this thread began, we weren't aware the pre facelift could be mapped at all, hence the enquiry of putting a post facelift in the pre facelift car. However, there are a number of things in terms of Can Bus etc that throw up potential complications. I think it's probably simpler and better to just keep the ECU the car came with and wait for the time when you can access a tuner who can do a good job on the remap.

Anyway, welcome to the forum buddy. How are things down under? Not too sore about the Ashes I hope :blush: . Are you by any chance a Mighty Car Mods fan? I absolutely love them, even if they do make fun of Hondas all the time :lol: .

Introduce yourself over in the new members area and post some pics of your car ;) .
 
Yes they are somewhat :huh: ! But I get what Fredo is saying without the pictures.
 
No worries man. It's clear what you're getting at. :)
 
Stevearcade said:
No worries man. It's clear what you're getting at. :)
Click to expand...
Well just to clarify lol:

This is the same chipset as my post facelift ecu (Remsa CPU, Mitsushiba made)
IMAG0379.jpg


I was referring to this post http://typeaccord.co.uk/forum/topic/12082-facelift-ecu-in-pre-facelift/page__view__findpost__p__135473 remembered you mentioned that chipset is not reflashable, but.....

that chipset looks to be reflash-able using Piasini if this Russian link is of any guide:
http://www.drive2.ru/cars/honda/accord/accord_7th_generation/voodoo777/journal/58994/
if you look closely to the pic down the bottom of the page (ignore the russian, i had to use google translate lol) you can see that chipset in that accord is the same as yours and mine, facelift or not.

there is a Piasini dealer in Australia in the Mazda scene, I might be able to get them to dump the ecu into a Bin file... but i wouldnt trust them to tune it.... I might have to see if I could get a tune from an UK shop of some description, which is why I joined type accord lol (Any suggestions welcome)

Now, regarding the prefacelift, i'll be getting a prefacelift ecu (2004) in a week or 2 from some one who had made the switch to Hondata + TSX ecu, i guess i'll findout then what prefacelift chipset looks like.

My hunch, is that the 2.0Litre CL7's have a different chipset than the 2.4, well at least till they made the switch to all rewritable ecu chipsets back in 2004/05~ish

Guess I'll findout soon enough. :)

PS: re:ashes..... well....... what Ashes..... lol.......
 
That's interesting Fredo. I had conversations about all of this with Milkchicken, the Honda expert on the Mighty Car Mods forum a while back who was adamant that none of this is worth it and I should just go TSX ECU and Hondata Flashpro. But if this riddle can be cracked it would work out half the cost of the Hondata solution and mean you can keep your original ECU.

I know Fahad on here uses Piasini tools for reading ECUs and I know he has an interest in this one, but is also very busy with other things. I think in time, we'll get it sorted and it will become more commonplace here in the UK and hopefully things will make their way over to you down under also.

Let us know how you get on with your plan though.
 
Stevearcade said:
That's interesting Fredo. I had conversations about all of this with Milkchicken, the Honda expert on the Mighty Car Mods forum a while back who was adamant that none of this is worth it and I should just go TSX ECU and Hondata Flashpro. But if this riddle can be cracked it would work out half the cost of the Hondata solution and mean you can keep your original ECU.

I know Fahad on here uses Piasini tools for reading ECUs and I know he has an interest in this one, but is also very busy with other things. I think in time, we'll get it sorted and it will become more commonplace here in the UK and hopefully things will make their way over to you down under also.

Let us know how you get on with your plan though.
Click to expand...


The is the one the Russians reflashed
e9694cu-960.jpg

^^^ Note on the background of the screen on the laptop!!
behind the program looks like a PDF file of a chipset! that must be the soldering instructions from Piasini!!!!!

This is my post facelift ECU

sticker


well, this is your ECU
ECU02.jpg

the only difference between yours and mine (and the russians) is yours is missing 4 chips in the middle of the board, could it be because yours is a manual?
One thing thats interesting however, check here:
http://www.jtune.com.au/products.html
Click on Euro CL9

You'll see they support the reflash of the PRE-FACELIFT ECU.
Look at one of the pictures on the left hand side....
ecu2.jpg

Is it just me? or is that identical to your ECU? :)

One problem tho... That play want to charge $1300AUD for a reflash... which is 760GBP... Lol... no thanks, but none the less you can see that it's do-able.
 
Hi Fredo, a good starting point would be a few details from the VIN of your car.


VIN is made up of:
3 characters for Brand and country where made: mine is JHM (Japan Honda)
3 character Type number: mine is CM2 (Accord Tourer)
2 digits for trim level: mine is 78
1 digit "check digit": mine is 0
1 character/digit for the year it was made: mine is 3 (although my car was first put on the road in September 2004)
1 character for the factory: mine is C
6 digit serial number: this is very specific to your car (so don't give it out)

When we know this, we might be able to get to why the ECU's are different
cheers, Brian

btw, the first 11 characters of Steve's and my VINs are identical, as are the ECUs

PS .....if Oz win in Durham and then at The Oval, then they'll have won a moral victory :lol:
 
Hey Fredo,

That's some interesting stuff there buddy. Nice work, you have a keen eye.

I noticed the codes in the listing of compatible ECUs. For 2003 (the year of my car) it's 37820-RBB-Q01. Mine differs with RBG-E01. Whilst this might be denoting nothing more than a regional thing, perhaps it goes deeper and like you say, the price is very high. But then again, for people in Australia, this seems like a great product. I wish they had an equivalent here :( .

Keep up the detective work though. The more people we get on the Pre-Facelift ECU remap band wagon, the more likely we will be able to crack this nut for a sensible price.
 
Stevearcade said:
I noticed the codes in the listing of compatible ECUs. For 2003 (the year of my car) it's 37820-RBB-Q01. Mine differs with RBG-E01. Whilst this might be denoting nothing more than a regional thing, perhaps it goes deeper and like you say, the price is very high. But then again, for people in Australia, this seems like a great product. I wish they had an equivalent here :( .
Click to expand...
I noticed that too Steve, but the VIN numbers say more about the car differences than the ECU part numbers do
 
My Vin:
JHM (Japan)
CL9 (Sedan 2.4)
63 (standard, no leather, no sunroof etc)
0 (checksum)
4 (although my car was made in OCT 2003 and given to me in Nov 2003)
C (Honda Sayama Factory)

I suspect that Australian CL9's are all 2004 build year, since we started to get 7th gen in June 2003.
Hope this helps

Note the pic of my ecu above is not the one on my car, I've got a post facelift from a wreck, I'll be getting a preface soon a ill share the pic then.
 
Fredoops said:
I've got a post facelift from a wreck, I'll be getting a preface soon a ill share the pic then.
Click to expand...

Hold on! So you've got a facelift ECU in a 2004 CL9? Does everything work as it should? Did you have to wire anything differently in order to get it to work? Can I ask why you changed your ECU?

Because you're basically answering the question here. If it can be done, get a CL9 ECU from a facelift, get it mapped and get it in. Tuners here don't have problems mapping the facelift.

Thanks
 
^ wow yes if that is so, then it is a phenomenal piece of info !!!!

btw ....now you can see why it's useful to always ask for the first 11 VIN characters .....Fredo's Accord really is identical to pre-facelift CL9 found here in the UK (which is what I wold have expected) B)
 
Stevearcade said:
Hold on! So you've got a facelift ECU in a 2004 CL9? Does everything work as it should? Did you have to wire anything differently in order to get it to work? Can I ask why you changed your ECU?

Because you're basically answering the question here. If it can be done, get a CL9 ECU from a facelift, get it mapped and get it in. Tuners here don't have problems mapping the facelift.

Thanks
Click to expand...

Hmm, well I haven't put the Post facelift ECU in the car as of yet, its taken apart sitting on my desk at the moment

However, it's the same concept as putting a post facelift 06/07 TSX ECU into your Accord then do the Hondata Flashpro:
- Ie: you will have to play around with getting the can bus line connected to your obd2 port, other than they it should be plug'n'play.
- and Hondata has guides on doing that (same as here)

I'll findout in october, as im getting a honda HID workshop tool so I can switch ecu and setup immobilizers myself.

IM also getting a pic of the chipset on a TSX ecu (post facelift) so we'll see if the chipset matches, if so, then it's just the matter of following whatever you do to put a post facelift tsx ecu in preface.

That being said, has anyone got a ECU pin out chart?
 
All I can find from Google is:

6916248363_c64b903945_z.jpg
 
Yeah... That's one of the post I commented on Ozhonda forum.

No sweat, I'll get a service manual or something.
 
I thought that the post facelift has some CANbus system (the pre-facelift car definitely has no CANbus at all).

A CANbus ECU that communicates with at least one other device on CAMbus will not like absence of CANbus signals :(

I think that this point has already been discussed in this thread B)
 
freddofrog said:
I thought that the post facelift has some CANbus system (the pre-facelift car definitely has no CANbus at all).

A CANbus ECU that communicates with at least one other device on CAMbus will not like absence of CANbus signals :(

I think that this point has already been discussed in this thread B)
Click to expand...

well considering the guys had been retrofitting the Canbus for prefacelift to put the post facelift TSX ecu in (to use hondata flashpro), i dont see why it cant be done the same for an postfacelift accord ecu.
 
Fredoops said:
well considering the guys had been retrofitting the Canbus for prefacelift to put the post facelift TSX ecu in (to use hondata flashpro), i dont see why it cant be done the same for an postfacelift accord ecu.
Click to expand...
you're missing the point of Steve's thread.

At the time Steve started the thread, to our knowledge, no-one had ever re-mapped a pre-facelift K24 ECU.
i.e. he/we merely want a re-map of the ECU, he/we do not want to chuck in piggy-backing etc etc

As it was known to be possible to re-map post facelift K24 ECU's, what Steve's thread wanted to know was, is it possible to merely swap a post-facelift 7th gen K24 ECU into a pre-facelift 7th gen K24 car, and then get the donor ECU remapped .....hence the ***le of the thread.

EDIT: piggy-backing will mean that any "moans" from the ECU about missing CANbus signals can be over-ridden i.e. the donor Honda ECU merely becomes a slave for some VTEC work that the Flashpro cannot do, the Flashpro becomes the dominant ECU. The job also requires a lot of rewiring, which is the most extensive/expensive part of the procedure (and if that is not discussed in this thread, then it's been discussed elsewhere)
 
Brian has a point. It's one thing doing the CAN Bus trick. That's a quick and simple, once wire hack. No worries. But in a Hondata setup, that's to ensure the Hondata stuff can communicate properly and do its thing.

Suppose you do the ECU swap without ever fitting a Hondata system. What might the effects be without the Hondata system to counter/substitute any stuff needed by ECU that isn't provided by the Pre Facelift car...? I don't know if that sentence really makes any sense, but I guess it's a case of yes you can swap ECUs providing you also do the Hondata thing. But can you swap ECUs and not do the Hondata thing? That's the question...
 
Stevearcade said:
What might the effects be without the Hondata system to counter/substitute any stuff needed by ECU that isn't provided by the Pre Facelift car...? I don't know if that sentence really makes any sense
Click to expand...
might not easily translate into Latin, but makes sense to me ;)
 
freddofrog said:
might not easily translate into Latin, but makes sense to me ;)
Click to expand...
:lol: I just re-read that sentence back, and really is a load of nonsense, but I think I get it :lol:
 
freddofrog said:
I know I keep banging on about it, but are all you guys talking year by your car reg plate, or year by the 10th character on your VIN ?????

(they may not be the same, they're not the same on my Accord)
Click to expand...

build year and reg year are two different things it seems.

Just like how the USA folks had access to TSDX"s since late 2003 but the "year" didnt start till 2004, i think US go by build year.
Same as mine, build year 04, i got the car November 03.

As to whether ECU swap would work or not, guess we'll find out in October when I try it out.
What I've heard so far is that only the USDM ECU's use CanBus, means k-line is used for normal communications, so I wouldnt think setting immobilizer would be an issue

So the only problem remaining is whether the car would run... which i'll findout
 
Fredoops said:
Just like how the USA folks had access to TSDX"s since late 2003 but the "year" didnt start till 2004, i think US go by build year.
Same as mine, build year 04, i got the car November 03.
Click to expand...
yeah I'm puzzled by that, how can they put a 4 for the build year when you got the car in November 03, when my car and Steve's cars are both 3 for build year ?
i.e. has Honda invented a time machine and they can send cars back in time at the factory ?
 
freddofrog said:
yeah I'm puzzled by that, how can they put a 4 for the build year when you got the car in November 03, when my car and Steve's cars are both 3 for build year ?
i.e. has Honda invented a time machine and they can send cars back in time at the factory ?
Click to expand...

May have something to do with "fiscal year"?
so it's fiscal year 2004 while still in calender year 2003.

Oh and also this is a good read about that:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Model_year

Edit
One of my concern was ECU pinout, as in ECU changing which pin sends what signal, (which would cause havoc)...therefore:
I did some more investigations, I remember for a while in Australia the Greddy Emanage was very popular for CL9's as a turning tool (this was years before flashpro)
- I remembered that those who did it used a boomslang harness for the acura tsx, so I went to boomslang site and did a search, the harness they used for the piggyback did not change between the model years (ie: pre and post facelift didnt change any ecu pin out)
- which is a reasonable ***urance that the actual pin out/in of the ecu itself hadnt changed

so i think if there were indeed any possible issues from using a post facelift ecu it would be at the OBD ports for the calibration of the immobilizer for example.... at least i hope/
 
^ useful link that ;)

if you get to swapping a post facelift 7th gen ECU into your car and get it working without piggy-back to begin with, you deserve some high pointage m8 B)
 
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