Menu
What's new
By:
Advanced search...

Bio Fuel in Yer Actual Diesel

C

Crookie

Members
Messages
13
Reaction score
0
Location
Stroud, Glos
Car
Tourer i-ctdi Ex
Chaps

I live and work in the darkest West Country and people are fond of shoving bio fuels in their diesels, filtered chip fat, corn oil etc. I tried it in my P38 Rangie (2.5 BMW unit) and the engine liked it but the fuel filter hated it so I abandoned the experiment.

Has any one used bio fuels in their Honda? And if so what was the result? Cheaper fuel may not be better overall and I note that some blokes are using V fuels but I dont have the evidence to suggest that this is good use of money.

I had a Power Box in the Rangie which helped it a lot. Fahad speaks of re-mapping which sounds like a good idea. I don't have a trip computer in my car and in any case the one in the Rabgie was ludicrously optimistic and I used to work things out on a calculator. My Accord Tourer has done a fraction over 45 mpg on its first full tank in general driving conditions. Seems OK to me. Does a re-map improve this?

Any info?

Crookie
 
Bio diesel and veg oil is generally rather thicker than petroleum diesel, especially at low (ie winter) temperatures.

This is a problem for the fuel pump(s) and the injectors.

In old BMW and merc diesels with mechanical injection there's generally no problem with using these fuels, other than the strain on the pumps (eg the E34 BMW 525tds was known for weak lifter pumps in the tank and bio/veg could hasten their demise).

However, modern high-pressure, common-rail, etc diesels can not cope on the injector side with these thicker fuels. It is almost universally recommended not to use biodiesel on any modern diesel engine such as the honda unit (and equally applies to current bmw, merc, ***, psa, etc units also).
 
Isaac is spot on here. Don't risk it Phillip, you may end up causing irreversible damage to the fuel system.

These cars have such a low tolerance for fuel quality variation that even supermarket fuels can cause problems/poor running.

If I knew your car was running on substandard diesel, I personally wouldn't take any remapping work on from you - that's how strongly I feel about it.

When you say you have no evidence of premium fuel being a worthwhile investment, have you tried it for yourself?
 
I-S said:
Bio diesel and veg oil is generally rather thicker than petroleum diesel, especially at low (ie winter) temperatures.

This is a problem for the fuel pump(s) and the injectors.

In old BMW and merc diesels with mechanical injection there's generally no problem with using these fuels, other than the strain on the pumps (eg the E34 BMW 525tds was known for weak lifter pumps in the tank and bio/veg could hasten their demise).

However, modern high-pressure, common-rail, etc diesels can not cope on the injector side with these thicker fuels. It is almost universally recommended not to use biodiesel on any modern diesel engine such as the honda unit (and equally applies to current bmw, merc, ***, psa, etc units also).
Click to expand...
 
Thanks for that. I reckon that I will leave the veggie oil on the salad where it belongs. Besides it makes the car smell funny.

How about V fuels and re-maps any one?

Crookie
 
F6HAD said:
Isaac is spot on here. Don't risk it Phillip, you may end up causing irreversible damage to the fuel system.

These cars have such a low tolerance for fuel quality variation that even supermarket fuels can cause problems/poor running.

If I knew your car was running on substandard diesel, I personally wouldn't take any remapping work on from you - that's how strongly I feel about it.

When you say you have no evidence of premium fuel being a worthwhile investment, have you tried it for yourself?
Click to expand...
 
Fahad

Thanks, very useful. No I have not used the V fuel on cost grounds alone. Do you think it is good stuff?

Crookie
 
Philip, at the moment as far as I am aware Shell's V Power Diesel is the most pure and advanced diesel on the market.

Read up on their website, it's basically a Gas To Liquid, synthetic fuel - chemically perfected in lab conditions with additives then added. It follows a totally different manufacture/distillation process to conventional diesel.

Fuels such as BP Ultimate are also good, but they are conventional diesel with additives.

It all depends on how well you know your car, but me personally I can feel the difference with V Power and only use that in my engine.

Regarding remaps, where do you want me to start :) As you are a pre member at the moment you can't see the Elite Remaps section, there's plenty of info and feedback in there to help you make your mind up.

I know some members have tried Total Excellcium.. but I can't comment on that as I haven't.
 
Philip,

The Accord is a beautiful car to drive, however very picky on what she drinks, stick to premium especially shell (if in your area) and avoid supermarket if you can.

like Fahad says you notice the difference in V power in both petrol and diesel, it just drives smoother.

Personally I use Shell where I can, not always V power and now mainly the fuelsave stuff, which also has cleaning additives in it.

I would imagine once remapped (which I am soon joining the club with Fahad ***istance ) it is even more important to get the right fuel.

I also feel that I get better economy with Shell than with supermarket stuff in theory diesel is diesel so it should do the same mileage but it just doesn't seem to (it may all be in the mind), plus in many cases Shell now seems to be cheaper than many of the other brands.

As you will see on the forum and certainly on the old forum, the biggest complaint is the fuel filter and personally i wouldn't want to risk messing it up even once.

In respect of economy and re-maps a lot of people have noticed an improvement and soon I'll be able to share my own experience, but much of it also depends on how you drive and how the car is maintained.
 
I have used total excellium alot my car seems to like, however Ive been in contact with Total technical team and after alot of dodging the question its not a GTL fuel. Therefore my first choice will always be VPD when Im in the area.

You have three shell stations around stroub all reporting to sell VPD so your spoilt for choice.
 
Monksy, respect to you fella for challenging them on the question!!
 
Many thanks to all of you for this which is very informative. I shall try the V Fuel in due course as I am off to France for two weeks on Set so will have to use the French equivalent.

Just got the car back fm August Honda in Salisbury who put a new exhaust manifold on for me. No probs, all very efficient and car now quieter and doesn't leak gases into the passenger copartment.

And if it was not for this web site I might have gassed myself and my family on the trip so big thanks to you all. Very good news and they checked the timing chain and reported all was well there. I still have 10 weeks on the warranty so all is well pro tem.

Anyway, good site, good advice, good result, thank again.

Crookie
 
Happy to help mate - enjoy your road trip ;)
 
DONT DO IT!

dont put biodiesel in the 2.2 engine, I have not tried it, not even read the spec for the honda's fuel but I did put it in a 52 plate 2.0 TDCi mondeo and it was very difficult to start (in the summer too) lost about 15% power ran lumpy and that was with 50/50 normal diesel.

The BS spec on road fuel does allow for 10% mix of biodiesel.

My mates landrover discovery runs on it OK but thats more tractor the exec car.
 
hi lads,
did anyone try boidiesel with accord or can share experience about biodiesel.
Heared a lot diferent opinions..... :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
 
gedutism said:
hi lads,
did anyone try boidiesel with accord or can share experience about biodiesel.
Heared a lot diferent opinions..... :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
Click to expand...
I wouldn't touch it at all mate your asking for trouble with are cars.
 
i think me personally all diesels are meant to run on this stuff.... vpower is just overkill they are tractors after all :D
 
Intresting thing,but
Friday night me and my friend had really hot discution about that and he recons its really safe and healthy do use it.We checked internet and guys there say that a lot happy drivers are here and cleaner engines are after biodiesel.
I said that you can use that diesel only with german cars :p :p :p
 
thanks CJ and.......Sorry for being too quick.. to rise a question :eek: :eek:


And coming back to same topic...
just spoke with friens about it and they using it already and do not noticed any diference.
1 drives Vectra 04 reg 2 drives Volvo S60 05 reg.Both are very happy with economy and savings(still)
so who need to believe then.
 
You will find a lot of arguments on the net about biodiesel. A lot of which is rubbish. WELL MADE biodiesel, fully converted with all soap removes will be fine on ANY diesel engine without a DPF (DPF is a no go due to the higher flash point of bio). I have been making biodiesel for 3 years now and have clocked up around 50k on a Landcruiser 4.2, and about 60k on a vectra DTI.

To be clear, I have not yet used on my Honda, as the Landcruiser and Vectra are a lot more tolerent then common rail lumps like the Accord, so until I know 100% that I have got my process consistent and am 100% getting regular pass rates when testing I will avoid. Also need to wait for the warrenty to run out.

I do need to make somthing clear though, BIODIESEL IS NOT JUST WASTE OIL WITH THE BITS REMOVED/ white spirit added!!!! It is an actual CONVERSION using chemicals etc.

Rumor has it that Honda runs its site vehicle on bio, but I won't go in to that was a have no real evidence!

Jake
 
I think samebody needs to try and tells us truth about Honda and biodiesel.
If something goes wrong then its not worth that money what you save becouse it can cost you hundreds and hundreds of pounds.
untill you save it you have to run about 1 year on boidiesel(driver like me)
 
gedutism said:
I think samebodu needs to try and tells us truth about Honda and biodiesel.
If something goes wrong then its not worth that money what you save becouse it can cost you hundreds and hundreds of pounds.
untill you save it you have to run about 1 year on boidiesel(driver like me)
Click to expand...

What makes you think you need to run it for a year? I make mine for around 12ppl when I get free oil. I agree there are not facts, but most manufactures are scared to warrent it due to the varying levels of quality of home made bio. There are lots of peaople who don't know what they are doing.

If it helps, there is a chap on one of the Civic forums who has been runing a remaped civic on bio for a while now, and like most, have found the engine runs smoother and quieter. My Vectra loves it.
 
Jake, the proof is in the pudding.

I'd be interested to know more about this remapped Civic running bio diesel - bearing in mind these engines have a low tolerance for poor fuel, even having problems with supermarket fuel sometimes!

If anyone wants to try it in their ICTDI... let us know how you get on. But that's definitely one queue I'll be at the back of.
 
I don't know and a bit scared to try but .......probably now I gonna live with that idea..
and maybe that map is for bio fuel only :eek:
Who knows?
Thanks for informative responce
 
F6HAD said:
Jake, the proof is in the pudding.

I'd be interested to know more about this remapped Civic running bio diesel - bearing in mind these engines have a low tolerance for poor fuel, even having problems with supermarket fuel sometimes!

If anyone wants to try it in their ICTDI... let us know how you get on. But that's definitely one queue I'll be at the back of.
Click to expand...

F6HAD, here is a link to the chap that is using it http://www.civinfo.com/forum/engines-transmission/22949-rolling-road-100-biodiesel-results.html he doesn't state how many miles he used it for on that particular post though.

Biodiesel has been said to be better for an engine the regular dino dues to it's viscosity. They recon even adding 1% bio to diesel can increase lubricancy by up to 60%, hence running smoother and quieter. I believe that's why the french starting adding 5% to thier pumps years ago, as when sulphur was banned due to it's link to acid rain, they needed a substitute (bearing in mind the sulphur was mainly present to lubricate)

I agree you will never find much evidence from Honda, or any other manufacturer for that matter, but quite frankly- it's not in thier interest too. Far to much hassle. There is no control over domestic bio making(although don't get me wrong, there are several quality tests I can, and do do before it goes anywhere near my car) so it's far safer to say an outright no- and I don't blame them.

In germany, you can apparently by a kit for BMW that allows you to use biodiesel (more common at the pumps over there). Apparently all that is changed is some low pressure pump and the fuel lines (although supposedly the pumps are rubbish on normal diesel anyway)

J
 
I think the issue is with the seals in the high pressure pumps on modern diesels, not the low pressure side. But anyway, I'm not going to rubbish something I don't understand or know enough about.. but I am sceptical until someone proves it works properly in one of our cars.
 
Can't say fairer then that. I will report my findings when my warrenty runs out!

Jake

F6HAD said:
I think the issue is with the seals in the high pressure pumps on modern diesels, not the low pressure side. But anyway, I'm not going to rubbish something I don't understand or know enough about.. but I am sceptical until someone proves it works properly in one of our cars.
Click to expand...
 
Was there not an issue with it being too harsh of the injectors? Ethanol content or summut... Can't really remember if I being honest. :rolleyes:
 
Dan Robinson said:
Was there not an issue with it being too harsh of the injectors? Ethanol content or summut... Can't really remember if I being honest. :rolleyes:
Click to expand...

If all of the methanol is not removed, it can damage seals and injectors. This makes the difference between a good processor and a bad processor. A good processor distils all of the methanol out.

If you get all the methanol out it also helps remove soaps, as soaps cannot stay suspended in bio if the methanol is removed. The mains tests I do each batch is 1. Check Incomplete reaction 2. Soaps presence 3. Methanol presence.
 
I used to run my old A6 on biodiesel. Would generally run it at 100% in the summer months and switch to about 50/50 in the colder months. The big audi loved bio, i got around 5% less mpg and the car did feel like it had lost a little power, but not much (it was also about 40p per litre cheaper. However, the engine did run a heck of a lot smoother with it and was a lot quieter.

I didnt have the guts to try it on the accord though, mainly due to me reading about how fussy the i-ctdi is regarding fuel.

If you want to try it on another car, and that car has a lot of miles on it, carry a spare fuel filter with you. Biodiesel acts as a great engine and fuel line cleaner and you will find that any gunk in the tank and lines will soon make their way to the filter, but a quick filter change and you have a clean, smoother running engine and nice shiny fuel lines.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top