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Cost effective lowering options?

Tiberious SG

Tiberious SG

Members
Messages
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8
Location
Ribble Valley, Lancashire
Car
04 Reg CDTI 2.2
Up until yesterday I was convinced that I should buy the Blistein B12 Pro kit in order to lower my Accord.

My second choice was the BC Coil-overs which I know a lot of the Forum Members are running.

I'm now reconsidering the BC Coil-overs so wondered if anyone can help sway me in either direction here are my pro and cons list for either option:

BC Coil-overs RH Series
br-series-group.jpg


Pro's

  • Recommended by TA Members and alot of other sources
  • comes with top mounts and some camber correction
  • may be easy than the the Bllstein for my mechanic to install

Con's

  • Will have to dial them in to level of lowering and dampening I require.
  • Believe that coil-overs have less longevity than spring and damper combo
  • slightly more expensive than the Bilstein B12 pro kit (£130 more)

Bilstein B12 Pro - Kit
images.jpg


Pro's
  • Brand reputation - Bilstein & Eilbach are pretty highly recommended.
  • Damper and spring combo are thought of as more reliable and have better longevity
  • no adjustments needed as fixed
  • cheaper than BC coil-overs
  • Monotube design is better than twin tube hence why I'm not considering the Koni SSK

Con's
  • May be more difficult for my mechanic to install
  • Although I plan to only drop car to around 30mm - to 40mm there is no camber adjustment built into this setup so will probably need extra kit which i might not need with the BC coillies?
  • B12 kit comes with uprated Bump stops and sleeves but does not mention top hats /mounts so unsure if original OEM will work

Extra info :
Originally was going to go A-spec route but kit discontinued and unable to find new one,
04 i-cdti exec,
daily motorway driver not track weapon, (yes I know that any lowering + the below wheels are going to reduce comfort)
I have a set of 19" rages to go on later in the summer when current tyres have finished their life.
I'm taking faddys advise and changing all bushes front and rear and checking all links and joints prior to the install

If anybody can help persuade me which way to vote with my cash I would appreciate it, all opinions are welcome.
 
I should add that I want a lower ride for the following reasons:

Better handling less wallowing and lurching and flatter in the bends hopefully (within reasonable expectations shes a weasel so i'm not expecting type S handling).

Better visual appeal - hate how high the 7th gen is on my epsilons and believe it will look only worse on the rages.

Current OEM setup is nine years old and has done 140k so will probably have to be replaced soon anyway.

Caught the modding bug thanks and really want to lower the car.
 
a good spring and shock setup is much better that coilovers .

coilovers need to be set up professionally or can actually make the ride worse that stock. they need alot more time to set up too.

for a set height and ride on road the shock spring setup will be perfect ;)
 
My car are 150000miles,and probably still with the same dampers.Last year I put eibach springs on oem dampers,and till now dampers are ok.You can put koni sport dampers with eibach springs.Go to check your dampers in garage,maybe they still fine,and just need to buy springs.
 
Tomas44 said:
My car are 150000miles,and probably still with the same dampers.Last year I put eibach springs on oem dampers,and till now dampers are ok.You can put koni sport dampers with eibach springs.Go to check your dampers in garage,maybe they still fine,and just need to buy springs.
Click to expand...

Im hoping to get a few years out of the car yet, and am betting on its reliability so I'll probably have to replace the Damapers and Spings anyway so now seems as good a time as any.
I just came into some unexpected funds :D so i'm doing the mod just not sure which way im going.

I've discounted the Koni's as they cost pretty much the same as the Bilsrtiens.
The Koni's use a Twintube design rather than the Bilstiens monotube design. also the Bilsteins come with macthed Eilbachs springs which I prefer to the Koni's non matched H & R Springs
 
Coilovers are great value and really not that hard to setup! I would have though it would be slightly firmer than the bilstein setup but use Function&form coilover myself. BC's wont have camber adjustment as far as i know, for this you would need front adjustable camber arms, the pic is a generic kit i think but someone can correct me if i'm wrong. After owning several sets of coilovers I would never purchase a shock/spring kit, what if you think i wish it was 10mm lower? Your stuck, with coilovers wheel off wind the perch up/down :) More pro's for coilovers:

Can adjust height to suit many situations including if you change wheels
Can be professionally corner weighted/setup if you want even better handling
Don't have to re-use oem parts meaning you can sell or store your originals in one piece
 
Egap... unfortunately you are very wrong with your coilover 'pros'.

yes you can simply wheels off and wind down the perch to change ride height. but then your Geo will be incorrect, the cars corner weight would have changed causing a decrease in ride &handling quality.

with cheap coilovers like the above... yes you can change ride height but by doing so you also change the characteristics of the shock...

with coilovers, the lower you go the stiffer they get... with decent coilovers you can adjust ride height without altering the springs loading.


if you want a 100% reliable way of lowering a car they buy a good shock and spring setup...
with this you can literally fit to the car and forget once they are set up.

with coilovers... the shocks are more prone to leak, the threads on the body corrode stop the effective use of the spring perch movement. they are a pain to get setup as its not as simple as wind each shock to same level and fit... corner weighting of the car will have a HUGE influence on the ride height and the overal handling of the car
 
OK thanks for the info chaps.
I know the Collies Vs Damper & Springs debate continues (a few hours of goggling definitely did not help me make a decision), I can see the plus points of both types of equipment.

In this instance I decided that as I would be happy with a modest drop and the improved handling. The versatility of the BC set was unnecessary. I'm also not convinced about longevity / reliability and my ability to correctly adjust a coil over.

So I decided to make a decision and go the Bilstein B12 Pro Kit route and have ordered the kit.
I'll provide feedback in the future.
 
The hole is right in a way about the setup on collies...they do need alot of work to get right with both the ride height and damper settings as well as geometry. ..BUT....if done properly the handaling on collies would be much greater than shock and springs...rememeber bc is not just another generic builder of coilovers... they specialise inbthier field..look at the time attacks cars and most of the track cars are now running bc racing coilovers...they are huge in the american market as well as japan. But remember if you do decide to get the bc racing coilovers dont skimp out on getting them setup properly..and a camber kit for the rear wont hurt either.with the wheels you wont really need any adjustment. ..its the rears on the accords which tend to give natural camber..
 
ukaccord said:
The hole is right in a way about the setup on collies...they do need alot of work to get right with both the ride height and damper settings as well as geometry. ..BUT....if done properly the handaling on collies would be much greater than shock and springs...rememeber bc is not just another generic builder of coilovers... they specialise inbthier field..look at the time attacks cars and most of the track cars are now running bc racing coilovers...they are huge in the american market as well as japan. But remember if you do decide to get the bc racing coilovers dont skimp out on getting them setup properly..and a camber kit for the rear wont hurt either.with the wheels you wont really need any adjustment. ..its the rears on the accords which tend to give natural camber..
Click to expand...

I've gone the Bilstein B12 kit route this time,

Do you think I should order a rear camber kit now and get it fitted at the same time rather than wait till after I've had the new setup installed and get an alignment?
If so there seems to be two main rear camber sets the Eilbach and the Ingalis, any recomendations?
 
Sounds great man. I'm very excited for you. Make sure you get plenty of pictures (while the work's being done if possible).

:)
 
If you lowering your car,go for camber kit too.Was in the firm who fited my springs and showed how rear tyres was.Inside wearing more.So now I put new tyres and soon make oder for camber kit.Ingalls are really good camber kit,good feedback from members.But for me expensive,so just buying japspeed camber kit for 90£.
 
^ Ditto. Really interesting and insightful. What the forum's all about.
 
Tomas44 said:
If you lowering your car,go for camber kit too.Was in the firm who fited my springs and showed how rear tyres was.Inside wearing more.So now I put new tyres and soon make oder for camber kit.Ingalls are really good camber kit,good feedback from members.But for me expensive,so just buying japspeed camber kit for 90£.
Click to expand...

I wasn't aware of the Japspeed rear kit. done a bit of googling and decided to cut costs and get the Japspeed myself as the Ingallis would push my budget a little.

This lowering business can get expensive:

Blisten Kit
Camber Kit
New Bushes
Possible ARB links
Fitting all of the above
Hunter Aligment
 
As mentioned ingalls do make a superb camber kit and is recommended by alot of accord owners and tsx owners..but as tomas mentioned they are not cheap!!but if a job is worth doing then it is worth doing correctly and doing the job once rather than having to go back and change in 6 months due to cheaper parts...its also worth doing the bushes and checking for any play in the general suspension setup as it is now...after everything has been istalled make sure you get a 4 wheel alignment done ...best machines for these are the hunters.
 
yep, complete suspension IS expensive. It is one of the most expensive parts of a car aside from the complete engine.

A car with proper sports suspension , you can see why it costs far more than a standard car.
 
toffee_pie said:
SG: all that work is going to be well over a grand.
Click to expand...

I know, parts alone I'm past £900 already. It took me a year to source the Rage Alloys on e-bay they were another £900 plus they need rubber.

Hence why I decided to save a little on the camber kit.
(worst case scenario I uprate it to ingallis later on when my bank account has stopped weeping)

I'm just hoping that aside from Front an rear bushes their is no major wear on the current suspension that requires more parts ARB Links / Top Mounts / Control Arms etc.
 
you are far better off getting ALL the bushes done (f/r) while doing this.

they only cost 10/20 quid each and can be put on with the rest of the work. No point *****ing a few months time about getting them done and wishing it was done with the suspension.

brand new suspension on a car 10 years old will put a lot of stress on parts like bushes etc its best to start fresh.

will be super once its done right though. !
 
toffee_pie said:
you are far better off getting ALL the bushes done (f/r) while doing this.

they only cost 10/20 quid each and can be put on with the rest of the work. No point *****ing a few months time about getting them done and wishing it was done with the suspension.

brand new suspension on a car 10 years old will put a lot of stress on parts like bushes etc its best to start fresh.

will be super once its done right though. !
Click to expand...


Hello mate time for a Noob question, sorry in advance.

I'm swapping out the front and rear ARB Bushes and the Front Compliance Bushes, on monday when I have my car booked in for new brake pads.

Are they any other Bushes I should ask them to replace? When you say all bushes are these all the bushes or are there others I need to have replaced?
 
Doing some late night web searching on uprated bushings (just out of interest not really considering it)

and found this kit list:

Kits Available:

Kits Available:

•Front & Rear Car Kit
•Front Control Arm Kit
•Control Arm Lower - Inner Front Bush
•Control Arm Lower - Rear Bush
•Steering Rack Mounting Bush
•Sway Bar Link Bush
•Sway Bar Mount to Chassis Bush**
•Lower Rear Engine Mount Front Bush Insert
•Lower Rear Engine Mount Front Bush
•Lower Rear Engine Mount Rear Bush
•Beam Axle Pivot Bush

I'm guessing Sway bar is ARB bushings, but aside from that I'm not sure which bush's I need to replace.
Faddy advised the front compliance bushes, are these control arm bushes?
 
There are compliance bushes mate

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/03-04-05-06-07-Honda-Accord-Compliance-Bushing-NEW-OEM-/110792043113?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&fits=Model%3AAccord&hash=item19cbb86a69

Obviously whilst it's on the ramp, check them all but the compliance and ARB bushes are most common to fail.

Also when you have the compliance bushes pressed in, ensure that whoever does it puts a marking against the edge of the wishbone to indicate which direction the slits in the bush are facing. These slits are designed to take in some of the flex/movement of the vehicle as essentially they are taking the load on the wishbone.

The slits are positioned in a certain way to allow flex/lateral movement. Hard to explain like this but it will become obvious when you have them pressed in.
 
TheHole said:
Egap... unfortunately you are very wrong with your coilover 'pros'.

yes you can simply wheels off and wind down the perch to change ride height. but then your Geo will be incorrect, the cars corner weight would have changed causing a decrease in ride &handling quality.

with cheap coilovers like the above... yes you can change ride height but by doing so you also change the characteristics of the shock...

with coilovers, the lower you go the stiffer they get... with decent coilovers you can adjust ride height without altering the springs loading.


if you want a 100% reliable way of lowering a car they buy a good shock and spring setup...
with this you can literally fit to the car and forget once they are set up.

with coilovers... the shocks are more prone to leak, the threads on the body corrode stop the effective use of the spring perch movement. they are a pain to get setup as its not as simple as wind each shock to same level and fit... corner weighting of the car will have a HUGE influence on the ride height and the overal handling of the car
Click to expand...

Hardly very wrong. Ok initial setup can be a bit more difficult but for the average driver ride height and geometry is all that need playing with and I said the extras could be done professionally if required. Only suggested it was a pro if you changed to a new set of alloys at some point say 17" to 18" you could compensate with ride height adjustment, whereas shocks only you couldn't. If you only did a minor 10mm adjustment geo would hardly be affected, probably less than a standard shock settling and drooping over time!

BC's are hardly a cheap coilover and have independent height adjustment so the characteristics remain the same at any height! As i believe corner weight would be adjusted by spring compression again independently adjustable. Only cheap ebay stuff tends to have single adjustments these days but i was referring to the OPs chosen model.

Good quality like the BC's shouldn't be prone to leaking, threads do need taking care of but no problem really if you are aware, just adjusted mine with no problems after a year of hard use, grime and flood water!! If you are competent with a few spanners fitting will take around 4 hours, install with shocks set roughly same height, drive for 10 miles to settle, make needed adjustments for leveling, get geometry set, enjoy

No stressing, more flexibility, more performance when done right


Back to the thread, another vote for ingalls camber kit, make sure you dont get a kit with the ball joints attached as if the ball go they are more expensive to replace than normal ones :)
 
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