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Dash instruments and lights all dead

T

Tafia

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Location
North Wales
Car
Accord diesel
Hi folks,

Went to my trusty Accord diesel executive ( year 2004, 77,000miles, full history) today, started it up no problems then noticed the VSA, ABS and handbrake warning lights on the dash were lit and everything else was dead. No rev counter and no dash lights.

Wondering if it was a loose connection somewhere, I drove along the drive and found the speedo and the fuel gauge were also dead.

The display for the clock and the radio are OK but if I turn the lights on, that display disappears.

When I locked the car, I noticed the alarm light was not flashing. Hmm.

Anyone have any idea what could cause all that to fail at once? The car was fine last time I used it?

Thanks

T
 
Sounds obvious, but have you checked all your fuses? I've never seen this problem yet..
 
Iv nether seen this nither but will be interested to find what the problem is.
 
Check fuses and switches, its loose connection somewhere for sure. If the car drives ok its some silly thing :)
 
Hi again folks,

Thanks to all for your replies.

As I mentioned, when I turned on the sidelights, the digital display above the sat nav screen disappeared so my initial thought was an earth fault. I checked the earth to the harness near the battery but that was clean and it made no difference when I further cleaned and reconnected it.

I looked on the Honest John car by car breakdown site and he says that a common problem with this car is the failure of the VSA ABS module which can occur after it reaches 4 years old. He says the fix is £1600 but there is a company called BBA-Reman who repair them for ~ £300. I looked on their site and it may be nearer to £520, plus 20% VAT no doubt.

As the warning lights which are on are the VSA and the ABS ( plus handbrake warning) could it be this module? If so, how does that affect the speedo, the rev counter, the fuel gauge and the strange thing with the sidelights and also that the alarm light is no longer flashing?

Have booked the car in for diagnostics tomorrow and will let you know the findings.

Thanks again.

T
 
Pepster said:
get the dealer to look at the green and blue block connectors under dash if the connectors are duff the entire dash stop working.

I am really at a loss to why diesel owner have some many electrical gremlins , on the petrol the battery dies a premature death but the diesel is always blowing bulbs , blowing fuses dash stop working blows the electric tailgate ,and a few two dozen electrical related issues.

none of this is seen on the petrol, it has to be the Big B effect I blame the germans, come on Honda sack all the German vendors.
Click to expand...
Iv got to agree with CJ on this.The only issue with the accord diesel is B parts and the sooner they ditch them the better.
Myself am a diesel lover but unless Honda start using Japanese components in there diesels i might consider buying a petrol for my next cat :ph34r:
 
Pepster said:
get the dealer to look at the green and blue block connectors under dash if the connectors are duff the entire dash stop working.

I am really at a loss to why diesel owner have some many electrical gremlins , on the petrol the battery dies a premature death but the diesel is always blowing bulbs , blowing fuses dash stop working blows the electric tailgate ,and a few two dozen electrical related issues.

none of this is seen on the petrol, it has to be the Big B effect I blame the germans, come on Honda sack all the German vendors.
Click to expand...
Hi Pepster,

Thanks for that. Will pass your thoughts on to him. I have just seen another forum post headed Speedo went off while drivng. Same problem?

Thanks again.

T
 
Me again folks,

Well I went to have the error codes read and they have come up with these.

U0155. F-CAN malfunction gauge control module ECM

P0113. Intake air temperature (IAT) sensor 1 circuit high voltage

and

P 1065 Fuel rail pressure lower than expected.

They did not check the connections under the dash as they say their diagnostics say it is an ECM problem. ( Could a poor connection give the impression it is the ECM I wonder.)

They are a Toyota main dealership and did not charge me for the diagnostics, "Sorry to be the bearer of bad news" he said. " No charge". He then said that the new module would have to be fitted and programmed by a Honda dealer and they could not help further. Does it need to be "programmed" ?

I have not used the local Honda dealer since he tried to make me have new discs and pads all around as: " the car would not pass an MOT " unless they were all changed. I knew the rears needed replacing so said go ahead but do not touch the fronts as they look fine to me. Since then it has passed 3 MOT's with the same front discs and pads!

I have found a module with a 30 day warranty for around £300 at a breakers on line. Could this be fitted by an auto electrician without the need for programming or is it a Honda dealer job? I wonder if they would fit a breakers part or would they ( try to) insist on fitting a new module at £1600 plus labour +VAT.

Thanks to all once again.

Cheers

T.
 
on my last petrol Accord, my dash died on me once, just as you mention above, but pre facelift did not have the VSA so VSA light.... I blame the speed sensor wire which I connected to the dash for my Pioneer multimedia system as it happened about a month after that install. to fix this, I removed the gauge set and unplugged it, leave the battery disconnected for about 10 mins and then put it all back together... after that it was fine...

remove two screws from the dash, underneath... take of the fascia, pull it, it will un-clip, then the speedo set has three screws, remove them and the connector is behind this....

try that mate.... hope it fixes it for you...
 
I'm still researching this issue and have found this.

http://autoforum.classifieds1000.com/Honda-CRV/Honda_CRV_2006_VSA_and_ABS_lights_on

Sheesh, sounds like a known issue with the Bosch ABS VSA module. Who do we sue?

Anyone got contact details for Honda UK?

Regards

T.
 
try what CJ has said first mate... if you have the VSA issue then you would have got a VSA fault code 66-1 but you haven't got that code.... meaning chances are its a wiring problem.
 
CJ is bang on the money here. You need to interpret what the DTC inforamtion is telling you. It's telling you there is no communication between the ECM and the cluster gauge. That means either the cluster is goosed or there is a loss of circuit continuity somewhere in the middle..

Just take the cluster out and check the block connetors and reconnect.
 
Many thanks again to all for your responses.

I went to the Toyota dealer as he looks after my wife's Corolla and, as I mentioned, the Honda dealer I initially used tried to sell me work that was not needed so I now don't trust him.

There is another one a little further away who the Toyota dealer told me yesterday has a good reputation ( ? ) so it seems I will have to ask him to check the wiring for me as I don't have the confidence to remove the facia. I would be wary of causing a short when I put it all back together and end up with even more trouble.

As you are all saying, I too wondered if it really was the ABS - VSA module because none of the 66 posts on the autoforum mentioned loss of all instruments; they just mentioned the ABS VSA warning lights. The fact that the digital diplay over the sat nav goes off when I turn on the sidelights suggested to me initially there was an earth fault but when I saw the 66 posts all complaining of the ABS module fault and that Honda had extended the warranty from 3 to 6 years on the Bosch unit, I presumed that must be the problem.

Some great and very helpful people on this forum. Will let you know how I fare.

Thanks again.

T
 
Thanks for your patience Pepster. So would you recommend that I go to a local auto electrician to have him check the blue and green connector blocks before I go to the other Honda dealer? At least that way I can stand and watch him do it but with dealers now, they whisk the car away and we have to try really hard to get past the "customer service advisor" to get to talk with the mechanic. I asked yesterday to speak with the auto electrician so that I could show him the faults which were not obvious, such as the digital display blanking when the side lights were turned on. They seemed reluctant and eventually sent the foreman out.

I am sure you will understand that many folks are suspicious of dealers. We have no way of knowing if what they tell us is true especially with stuff that is hidden away. I could see the last Honda dealer was trying to lash me when he said I needed discs and pads all around as the discs were on view but imagine if I went back to him with this issue: I would fully expect him to tell me it will cost £2000 to fix and then he may just clean up the green and blue connector blocks and make a mint.

So it looks like either a local auto electrician to look at the connectors or a chat with the second Honda dealer. The Toyota dealer said it was not something they could do as the module needed programming. I guess that was their way of saying they didn't want to get involved.

The car is driveable and I can use my sat nav as a speedo to get the dealer (I mistyped that as healer at first. Freudian hey?)

Thanks again for you patience.

Best wishes

T.
 
I would suggest a reputable auto electrician is a good place to start really.. especially if you're not confident in having a go yourself.
 
Well folks, as suggested I booked the car in with a local auto electrician for next Wednesday. I was going to drive it up there using my sat nav as a speedo.

Just put some papers in the car for his information and noticed the central locking was sluggish. Tried to start the car and it appears the battery is now flat.

The battery is an expensive Varta, about one year old and I can only ***ume that the fault which is causing the trouble is an earth fault which has drained the battery. It started and ran OK after the fault first appeared.

Now it looks like an RAC call out at least to get it to the auto electrician. And if he can't fix it, how do I then get it from him to the Honda folks 25 miles away? Rhetorical questions hey.

On the blocked fuel filter error code P 1065, as stated by others, this relates to a blocked fuel filter which, I am told, is due to poor servicing. I have just checked my records and the fuel filter should have been changed at the 75,000 service which was done by the Honda dealer at 69,000. I asked for the 75,000 service as I had just bought the car and wondered if all was OK with it whilst it was still under the 3 month warranty. The car has now covered just 8,000 since that service and I am wondering if the dealer really did change the filter as he should have. I believe it is an awkward job and mechanics
have been accused in the past of not changing it; easier to tick a piece of paper than struggle.

After a chat with the second Honda dealer, they tell me they charge £85 per hour + VAT and " it's better to spend a few hours finding the fault than to just guess" True, but " a few hours"?

Ho hum
 
Actually I would start with a new Honda battery for this car and then see if it resolves your issues (its possible). Again they need quite a specific battery for the ICTDI and if its not developing enough charge it can cause allsorts of issues..
 
Agree with Fahad we have seen lots of issues related to poor battery's.Your going to need one anyway and its an easy 1 st job to do.
 
Measuring undue drain on the battery is simple, finding the cause nof so much.

With my old battery all seemed fine when testing but it simply would hold a decent charge - five minutes of radio meant it wouldn't start. Once battery has been fully discharged a couple of times it is pretty goosed.

Honda's diagnostic charges are high, but there are lots of gadgets in our cars, and the "smart alternator" doesn't help with simplicity either.

Not sure whether you should go straight to Honda or give your other chap a stab. Suppose it depends on what he will charge you?
 
Latest on dead Honda.

Having measured the battery voltage at 7 volts, I have now connected a 12 V supply across the Honda leads and taken them off the battery posts in order to charge the battery without damaging the electronics. Looking increasingly like an earth or component fault which is also draining the battery.

At present I have it on a trickle charge in the hope I can get enough energy back into the battery to start the car to enable me to get it to the auto sparky.

I am guessing that if I ask the RAC to take it to him and he is not able to sort it out, then they may refuse to take it to the Honda dealer as it is a recall to the same fault which by the rules of some recovery services should have been fixed after their first attendance.

Will keep the forum informed of the progress in the hope it may help others with a similar problem

Thanks again to all who have responded.

Best wishes

T.
 
Well folks, Accord seems to be fixed. £200.

Following the advice and discussion in this forum I took the car to a local auto sparks who has a good reputation within the trade. He had the car for a day and then called me yesterday to say: “Good news, all the warning lights are out and the instrument cluster is working as it should”.

I asked him what the problem was and he told it was a dry joint to a power transistor in the instrument cluster. I was impressed that he had gone so deeply into the system.

I asked why the battery was being drained since this fault occurred – down to 7 volts in 3 days – and he told me, (I didn’t know this) that when we turn off our cars, the various systems take several minutes to shut down and, because of the fault, they were not shutting down as they should and remained powered, thus draining the battery.

He said he always waits 20 minutes after turning off such cars before checking for a leakage of current, which is what I suspected was happening, thus causing the battery to flatten. We went to the car and he showed me the present current flow by connecting a multimeter in series with the battery post and cable. It showed around 1 millivolt. And there is the major benefit of going to a specialist rather than a main dealer. They show you what is happening whereas the dealers I have met just take the car out of sight then bring it back “fixed” with a big bill.

I have just checked the voltage this morning and from 12.7 volts yesterday morning on his meter, it is now 12.65 volts on mine so it seems he was right about the cause of the drain on the battery.

I realise that I may have gone off on the wrong track over this but in mitigation, if a main dealer puts the car on his diagnostics and tells me the ABS/VSA module has gone, doesn’t charge me for the diagnostics and doesn’t want to do the work ( so has no profit motive ) then initially, I believed what he said.

Fortunately, time has taught me to take the word of no one without checking and had it not been for the excellent and knowledgeable advice given on this forum I could have taken the car to a Honda dealer at goodness knows what cost. It was suggested: “A few hours of checking at £85 per hour plus VAT”.

I guess I will have to go to the second dealer in any event to have the fuel filter changed even though the car has just been serviced again and in spite of the fact that the first Honda dealer should have changed this filter at the 75,000 service ( the car had covered around 69,000 at the time but I asked for the 75,000 as it was supposed to be more comprehensive and included the fuel filter) which was just 8,000 miles ago. It is hard to believe the filter has become blocked in 8,000 when the change interval is 25,000 so, as previously stated, it could be that the dealer’s mechanic didn’t bother to change the filter as it is a fiddly job which, I am told can take 45 minutes.

Once again may I thank all those who responded to my query and I hope the above helps anyone who may have a similar problem.

Best regards. T
 
Hi, that's a great result.

I've used decent auto sparkies in the past, and I know people think they're over priced but actually this is exactly the sort of example that demonstrates what a valuable service they provide.

All I will say is that a diagnostics by Honda may still have revealed the fault as ultimately we were right about it being a faulty cluster unit. The only thing is then that Honda wouldn't have repaired it, they would have replaced it.. at a cost substantially more than £200 !!

I remember another member, with a 2.0 petrol (JohnK) had a faulty cluster too, so you're not the first to have it.
 
great result there bud!
 
the BIG BAD MAIN DEALERS !!! tell me about them! ive have some realy bad experaiances myself........................ohh wait..............
 
regards the other dtcs relating to intake temp sensor and fuel preasure. this is most likely a temporary dtc stored when the fuel filter was last replaced. no doubt they turned the ignition on with the iat sensor disconnected. and the fuel preasure dtc can be stored if the fuel filter isnt primed and engine is cranked with low fuel preasure for too long. if your engine light comes back on then obviously get it checked by whoever you prefer.
 
beefy_634 said:
the BIG BAD MAIN DEALERS !!! tell me about them! ive have some realy bad experaiances myself........................ohh wait..............
Click to expand...

Well I guess if you can't beat em... join em... ohh wait :D
 
beefy_634 said:
regards the other dtcs relating to intake temp sensor and fuel preasure. this is most likely a temporary dtc stored when the fuel filter was last replaced. no doubt they turned the ignition on with the iat sensor disconnected. and the fuel preasure dtc can be stored if the fuel filter isnt primed and engine is cranked with low fuel preasure for too long. if your engine light comes back on then obviously get it checked by whoever you prefer.
Click to expand...

So does this mean that the filter may not need changing or should I ask for it to be "changed" again? I guess they will want to do a complete service even though it has just had an interim.

Battery at 12.5 volts today. Not run yesterday.

Thanks to all again
 
^^ plus why are you going to a toyota dealer to diagnose a porblem? its like me taking my accord to fiat to ask them to see what the problem is... and we all know about fiats

seriously m8 as cj has said already stop worrying and reading on websites about vsa faults and sueing and all dat.... just go to HONDA MAIN DEALER get it checked and then go from there but please dont go to another manufacturers dealer to diagnose a problem even if he is your best friend.. they dont have the experience and the knowledge of your honda other than a honda dealer or specialist

oh and about the disks well it is up to the MOT guy to see if they are fit or not.. i once had an MOT technician pass my car even tho one of my tein shocks was leaking and had a small crack in it and clearly visible and my rear disks where completely gone....some insist on changing disks when they are 3/4 worn because at the end of the day if you crash they cant blame him because he did everything by the book and more


ps i didnt realise there was a second page to this so sorry dude

and glad you got it all fixed !!!!
 
quote]So does this mean that the filter may not need changing or should I ask for it to be "changed" again?[/quote]

is your car due a fuel filter change?.......whats your cars mileage?. hondas service schedule for the diesel accord is to change the fuel filter every 25,000 miles. ***uming this has been adhered to it all depends on what service your car is due. every 12,500 miles the filter should be drained to remove water. it is completly up to you whether you want to treat your car to a new filter if it is not due one according to your cars service history.

you say the auto electrican cleared your engine codes?........is your engine light on now? if not i would ***ume there is no problem with either untill your engine light comes on again. if you took your car to a honda dealer they could have told you if it was a temporary dtc or not. we do not know this however. to sumarise..........if your car is due a fuel filter.....replace it. if not, wait to see if the engine light comes back on to confirm there is a problem.
 
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