Engine light on - engine cut out wouldn't start

[Davy]

Hi All, not having much luck of late with this car (7th Gen Tourer 2006 iCTDi EX on 67k).. it stranded me on the motorway last Thursday, its now at Newton Honda for diagnostics.

Back story: when the car went in for the new heater matrix, the techs reported that the engine management light was illuminated and when they checked it came up with a crank position sensor fault. They cleared the fault and it didn't come back on the test drive so they gave me the car back with a new matrix and a clean bill of health..

The following day, the engine management light came on again, so I called them up and was advised that there was probably an intemittent fault but as the car was running as normal it was ok to drive but I should book it in for a check up - of course when I got back to the car, the light was off and all was fine.. until Thursday evening.

After a smooth drive through London heading out on the M4, just as I moved onto the the M25 interchange I got some juddering, engine management light on and engine dead.

Parked it up on the hard shoulder - failed to start it after a few attempts and made the usual calls.

Recovery turns up after the usual delay and promptly starts the car on first attempt! But it won't idle properly so he sticks it on the back of the truck and after a bit of negotiating drives me back home.

I fired it up this morning, engine light still on but running as normal - so I drop it in to Honda to beat the snow. They are running diagnostics on Monday.


From my bit of googling - looks like an intermittent CPS failure which is going to cost me north of £300 for diagnosis and replacement... Any thoughts?


Ade

 

[Davy]

what the mileage on the car and which year? Is there any engine oil on the car confirm if the oil reading off the dipstick . If that is OK then you could have a timing chain which has snapped.

Thanks for the quick reply

I've modified the original post with more info.

The car started and ran fine this morning, would it do that without a timing chain - didn't check the engine oil level as it was running ok...



Ade

 

[F6HAD]

It won't be a snapped timing chain if the engine is running.

If the MIL is telling you it's a crank position sensor, then it may well be that but I'm not sure I've seen an instance of CPS failure on the ICTDI yet..

Most common faults we see are fuel filter related, which is consistent with the intermittment problems you described.

What is the oil reading and what viscosity of oil have you been using? Out of interest, when was the engine last serviced? Has this only happened since the dealer worked on it? Does the car warm up ok, i.e do you think the thermostat is ok?

 

[Davy]

It won't be a snapped timing chain if the engine is running.

If the MIL is telling you it's a crank position sensor, then it may well be that but I'm not sure I've seen an instance of CPS failure on the ICTDI yet..

Most common faults we see are fuel filter related, which is consistent with the intermittment problems you described.

What is the oil reading and what viscosity of oil have you been using? Out of interest, when was the engine last serviced? Has this only happened since the dealer worked on it? Does the car warm up ok, i.e do you think the thermostat is ok?

The car has a full HSH and was last done at I think 62k or thereabouts in line with handbook. No idea what oil is in it but I would hope that Honda would know what they are doing - last time I checked it (a couple of weeks ago) the oil level was correct - it seems to use no oil as I checked every fuel stop initially... Car warms up ok - its slower than my previous petrol car to reach temp but I've ***umed thats diesels for you. Since they've fixed the heater matrix, all seems fine.

Ade

 

[F6HAD]

Since they've fixed the heater matrix, all seems fine.

Ade

Ade, so the car is ok now?

 

[Davy]

Ade, so the car is ok now?

Sorry no - it was fine until it conked out last Thursday - what I mean is that there were no issues between them fixing the matrix and it breaking down - no smoke, funny noises, engine glitches etc.


Ade

 

[vile]

This will be an interesting one to find the cause.Keep us up to date and see what Honda say on Monday.

 

[Davy]

This will be an interesting one to find the cause.Keep us up to date and see what Honda say on Monday.

Will do - it would be good if its as simple as replacing a sensor - but given my luck of late......


Ade

 

[Davy]

Apparently the fault code is for the crankshaft position sensor as expected. What I didn't expect was the extra hour of labour I've got to pay so they can run through further diagnostics to confirm that the cps is indeed the issue.

I like the thoroughness (I'm told there is a Honda job sheet outlining the tests to be undertaken) but I'm not liking the cost. £80 part, 3 hours labour expected so far....

Let's hope it's not something more sinister....

Ade

 

[F6HAD]

Wow..

Well I can't help feel a bit suspicious somehow about all this mate. Your car seems to have two problems we've never seen before on the ICTDI.. and so close together too - and they're not even related in anyway.

You may have a lemon - or maybe this one was built in Swindon for fun.

I'll be really interested in what caused the part failure if you can get them to tell you.

And good luck

 

[Davy]

Apparently the fault code is for the crankshaft position sensor as expected. What I didn't expect was the extra hour of labour I've got to pay so they can run through further diagnostics to confirm that the cps is indeed the issue.

I like the thoroughness (I'm told there is a Honda job sheet outlining the tests to be undertaken) but I'm not liking the cost. £80 part, 3 hours labour expected so far....

Let's hope it's not something more sinister....

Ade

Now I'm really not happy - after running further diagnostics Honda are reporting back an ECU failure - £928.32 plus a further hour's labour. Rather inconveniently they don't have a spare to hand to run a test, and neither do Honda.

Any idea what would cause this - I could replace it and then have the ECU spiked by whatever and get the same problem again!

I'm going to take this up with Honda customer services - the car will have cost me £2k in one month after six months of ownership and 12k miles.


Any thoughts?

Ade

 

[vile]

Wow mate im stumped for words were did you get the car and was there any warranty on it.
Iv nether heard of these problems before as Fahad said.
Im not sure but perhaps it might be worth giving Honda UK a ring to see what they think.

 

[Davy]

Wow mate im stumped for words were did you get the car and was there any warranty on it.
Iv nether heard of these problems before as Fahad said.
Im not sure but perhaps it might be worth giving Honda UK a ring to see what they think.

Hi Brett

Spoke to Honda UK just now, they've logged it and my general dissatisfaction and will get back to me..



Ade

 

[vile]

Hi Brett

Spoke to Honda UK just now, they've logged it and my general dissatisfaction and will get back to me..



Ade

Nice one Ade im afraid this is all you can do where did you buy the car from.

 

[Davy]

Nice one Ade im afraid this is all you can do where did you buy the car from.

Arnold Clarke... I doubt I'll get anything out of them without a serious bit of wrangling... I believe I'm just out of the 6 months period covered by the sale of goods act too....

Hey ho..


Ade


edit - have to say that Newton Honda have so far been pretty good in terms of keeping me updated, they've followed up my customer services call and have confirmed I should get the car back Wednesday and a confirmation of any goodwill from Honda on the same day. I wish the car was as good.....

 

[F6HAD]

uh oh not another Arnold Clarke jobbie...

ECU failures can happen to any car but so so rare... Has it ever had a voltage spike/alternator problem? Or (don't laugh) been struck by lightning? Or possible water ingress into the ecu from the matrix leaking??

 

[Davy]

uh oh not another Arnold Clarke jobbie...

ECU failures can happen to any car but so so rare... Has it ever had a voltage spike/alternator problem? Or (don't laugh) been struck by lightning? Or possible water ingress into the ecu from the matrix leaking??

Since I've owned it I can't recall being struck by lightening, although looking out the window if I was outside now it would be a distinct possibility if I went for a walk... Water ingress is worth asking about, especially as the engine light had never as much as flickered prior to it going to Newton Honda for the matrix repair. Is the ECU anywhere near the plumbing?

Aside from the issues mentioned on here (intermittent HFT drop out which self rectifies after a while..., heater matrix and now fried ecu) its been as good as gold.

Thanks for replies.

Ade

 

[kpanchev]

It might be worth checking your electrical connections and more specifically the ground links. I have a friend with prelude that had quite a problem with it, the automatic gearbox went mad and switched gears randomly. Honda spent ages diagnosing and finally said ecu is fried and asked £3k for a new ecu. Well, the car costs less than this, so he politely showed them the fingers and got it to our local mechanic. He spent a day testing and rewiring everything and presto, the car works perfect now. Your problem might have the same origin, you never know...

 

[F6HAD]

Ade, I think on the ICTDI it's in the n/s behind the glovebox and side kick panel area.. so I guess that's consistent with where you had the leak.

I've never had the ECU out of my car, I just recall one of the engineers from Elite Remaps telling me where it was. CJ, can you confirm where the ECU is by any chance? I know on the petrol it's in the driver side kick panel?

We might be on to something here. Water damage in an ecu will reak havoc for sure.

 

[Davy]

Note this is a LHD pictures so look at the passenger foot well & remove the passenger's kick panel you find it there. In the 8th gens the ECM has moved under the bonnet next to the battery.

Thanks guys - that all got pretty wet down there and kind of makes sense.... although I doubt it will have tracked that far up - I'd be interested to know how they valetted the carpet to try to remove the smell - jet wash!??

Either way got a call this morning and Honda UK have made a substantial goodwill contribution which brings the bill down a fair chunk which is good, car is ready tomorrow which is also good - thanks to Honda UK and Newton Honda customer service - a little bit of action on their part undoes a fair bit of the aggro.

I'm going to ask for the old ecu, be interesting to open it up..


Cheers

Ade

 

[F6HAD]

Ade, if you want, I may be able to put you in touch with someone that can repair ECU's. One of the other agents for Elite around my way does this as a day job.. Never used him myself but worth a conversation maybe.

 

[CJM]

Thanks guys - that all got pretty wet down there and kind of makes sense.... although I doubt it will have tracked that far up - I'd be interested to know how they valetted the carpet to try to remove the smell - jet wash!??

Either way got a call this morning and Honda UK have made a substantial goodwill contribution which brings the bill down a fair chunk which is good, car is ready tomorrow which is also good - thanks to Honda UK and Newton Honda customer service - a little bit of action on their part undoes a fair bit of the aggro.

I'm going to ask for the old ecu, be interesting to open it up..


Cheers

Ade

If Honda are giving a substantial goodwill gesture, will they want to keep the ECU themselves?

 

[Davy]

In a further twist, the new ECU has not fixed the problem... Honda Technical are being consulted and I'll get an update later today :lol:

What happens if they can't fix it?



Ade

 

[F6HAD]

Have they actually replaced the wiring for the CPS or is that not the culprit anymore?

 

[Davy]

Have they actually replaced the wiring for the CPS or is that not the culprit anymore?

The CPS was mentioned in this evening's progress update.. but apparently the sensor isn't the problem, and I still needed a replacement ECU. It appears they believe they've narrowed it down to two possiblities, CPS sensor belt and or plate? I'll find out more tomorrow after 10.

Will update.

Ade

 

[F6HAD]

I hope you're not being charged for all these unnecesary parts mate?

 

[Davy]

No charge so I'm told & they've got me a civic for Christmas.... Small chance they'll fix mine today, failing that we'll just have to cram into the civic. Better than no car..

Ade

 

[Dan Robinson]

Sorry to hear of your troubles Ade!

Let's hope the new Year brings better news for you and the Accord...?!?!?

 

[Davy]

No developments as yet. The civic is a petrol auto - it's like driving a food whisk! We've managed to squeeze in but I'm missing the comfort & space of the accord..

Ade

 

[TheHole]

have they been open over the last few days to try and sort your car ?

its a little fustrating that they cant diagnose the issue correctly first time, but it looks like HUK is looking after you

even with a food wisk petrol auto.... its better than nothing
have you tried putting diesel in it yet