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Judder when reversing or moving off in 1st

solo

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Hi all.

I have a 2009 8th Gen Diesel EX-GT 2.2 Dtec with about 130k on the clock. In January I had the clutch and DMF replaced after experiencing the typical slippage in 4th and 5th when acccellarating uphil. Both of my local Honda Dealers had closed so, for the first time, I took it to an independent 'RAC' garage that advertised themselves as a Honda specialist.

I intially spoke with the garage and proposed, for future redundancy, that they install the higher rated Type-S clutch (stiffer pressure plate) which this forum has established is a straight swap and costs the same. They seemed amenable to this and I gave them the details for Cox motor parts website. Oddly they then came back with higher part prices in their quote than those on the Cox website so I disucssed with the garage and we eventually agreed that I would supply the parts and they would fit.

Following the install everything was fine; the slippage was of course gone and the car could still pull away and reverse on just the idle as it always had done. The pedal pressure wasn't particularly light though.

However, in September we returned from a week's holiday where I had driven a very new Mazda Diesel as a hire car - a very smooth experience and a light clutch. I immediately noticed that my car could no longer pull away or reverse on the idle without significant juddering at the bite point. Once the clutch is fully engaged its fine but I now have this judder at the bite even with modeate revs. Even my 8-yr old in the back seat commented on why the passenger backrest was shaking - he had never said this before.

I'm positive that its not just me, having had the experience of a week of a newer hire car. I'm sure that something has changed. I also feel confident that it's not that the Type-S pressure plate is too beefy for my 150hp engine as its been fine for 8 months. My research on here and general Google searches has suggested that it could be:
  • Poor clutch installation without the use of the correct Compression Tool.
  • Worn gearbox mounts.
  • Sticking self-adjstment mechanism.
Any thoughts please. Thanks.
 

F6HAD

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Is your car remapped?
 

vile

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Did the garage check your DMF to see if it was in spec
 

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F6HAD

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Sorry I misread your post quickly, I thought you meant it was slipping again.

I would agree it could be a worn engine mount. Otherwise possibly a flywheel.
 

solo

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brett said:
Did the garage check your DMF to see if it was in spec
I don't know. However, I was very specific in what I ordered from Cox's and spoke with them over the phone about it. The invoice description matches the vehicle specification and time period:

Genuine Honda Accord 2.2 I-Dtec Diesel Clutch Kit & LUK Flywheel 2009-2015 - [SIZE=11pt]22105RL1305[/SIZE]
 

Drejc112

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Hi all.

I have a 2009 8th Gen Diesel EX-GT 2.2 Dtec with about 130k on the clock. In January I had the clutch and DMF replaced after experiencing the typical slippage in 4th and 5th when acccellarating uphil. Both of my local Honda Dealers had closed so, for the first time, I took it to an independent 'RAC' garage that advertised themselves as a Honda specialist.

I intially spoke with the garage and proposed, for future redundancy, that they install the higher rated Type-S clutch (stiffer pressure plate) which this forum has established is a straight swap and costs the same. They seemed amenable to this and I gave them the details for Cox motor parts website. Oddly they then came back with higher part prices in their quote than those on the Cox website so I disucssed with the garage and we eventually agreed that I would supply the parts and they would fit.

Following the install everything was fine; the slippage was of course gone and the car could still pull away and reverse on just the idle as it always had done. The pedal pressure wasn't particularly light though.

However, in September we returned from a week's holiday where I had driven a very new Mazda Diesel as a hire car - a very smooth experience and a light clutch. I immediately noticed that my car could no longer pull away or reverse on the idle without significant juddering at the bite point. Once the clutch is fully engaged its fine but I now have this judder at the bite even with modeate revs. Even my 8-yr old in the back seat commented on why the passenger backrest was shaking - he had never said this before.

I'm positive that its not just me, having had the experience of a week of a newer hire car. I'm sure that something has changed. I also feel confident that it's not that the Type-S pressure plate is too beefy for my 150hp engine as its been fine for 8 months. My research on here and general Google searches has suggested that it could be:
  • Poor clutch installation without the use of the correct Compression Tool.
  • Worn gearbox mounts.
  • Sticking self-adjstment mechanism.
Any thoughts please. Thanks.
Hey there, i hope you sorted out the judder. I have a 2.2 types wagon facelift model with same problem you have/had and i wonder if you can share what was the problem ?
 

solo

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Hey there, i hope you sorted out the judder. I have a 2.2 types wagon facelift model with same problem you have/had and i wonder if you can share what was the problem ?
After several conversations with the garage that fitted it, my new favoured garage and then a local Hendy Ford garage that was setting themselves up as a Honda service centre; I concluded that the clutch was at fault and possibly had 'Hot Spots'. Due to personal circumstances I couldn't face spending an arm and a leg opening up the car again and having it inspected so I'm just living with it for now.

All of that said, the car went for an MOT recently and came back with an advisory that one of the rar brakes was binding 'not excessively'. The MPG had dropped to around 30 following the MOT so I jacked the car up with the handbrake off and found both rear wheels to be extremely stiff to turn. I'm basically driving around with the brakes on!! I wonder now whether this is actually the problem with the juddering all along!
 

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That could be the case or not, i had a binding rear left brake caliper, i changed the brake piston and its ok now, soo im my case it cant be the brakes that are makeing the car to judder.
 

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Hi All, new to the thread. I have a 2013 Honda Accord 2.2 I-DTEC 180BHP with same problem, had the car looked at recently by garage. He put the car in park with hand break up and put the car in reverse with the bonnet open. You could see the engine actually jumping a lot more than usual so he immediately said worn engine mounts. In Ireland it is impossible to try and find the parts without having to go to Honda main dealer which in turn costs a fortune. I will be changing the gearbox mount and the driver side mount near the alternator belt this week so I will update later. The shuddering/vibrating/juddering in reverse in my car is very bad.
 

Booleen97

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You should be able to source these parts on ebay a lot cheaper
Yeah I was looking at EBay, lots of the parts coming from Lithuania so might just chance it as would cost half the amount then buying from Honda Main Dealers themselves
 

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Update: I went to my local mechanic who is used to working on Accords, I spent an hour with him looking at the engine mounts and taking them off, the lower torque mount and driver side (upper torque mount) were both perfect when we took them off, no cracks or movement in the rubbers and all the bolts were perfect so I’m back to square one again. I’m bringing the car to another mechanic who recently put a new engine in a friends 2009 accord to see what he might suggest. At this stage I’d rather them tell me it’s the clutch and flywheel and spend the 1200€ getting the job done just so I know what the problem actually is. Car is going perfect other than the shuddering/vibrating in reverse but it’s just getting annoying now. Any updates I have I’ll be sure to post, should have an update by the end of the week.
 

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Did you get any resolution to this? I just picked up my new 2012 Type S and am having the same issue, I’ve just come from a 2008 ES GT with a pretty worn clutch so I put it down to me getting used to the newer clutch, but now I’m beginning to wonder if there is an issue.

Wondering if I should take it back to the dealer and get them to check it.
 

Booleen97

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Did you get any resolution to this? I just picked up my new 2012 Type S and am having the same issue, I’ve just come from a 2008 ES GT with a pretty worn clutch so I put it down to me getting used to the newer clutch, but now I’m beginning to wonder if there is an issue.

Wondering if I should take it back to the dealer and get them to check it.
For me personally I still have the same problem, my lower torque mount on the engine was perfect and so was the upper torque mount so I’m doing the clutch and flywheel in a week or two to see does that anything, I think overall with parts and labour it’s gonna cost about 1,100€ and that’s with parts from Cox Motor Parts and Labour about 350€. If it is still there after the clutch and flywheel replacement then I’m kinda at a loose end as it what it is and as other people mention above you could end up spending a fortune trying to figure it out. If you recently bought your accord from a garage and still have warranty I would definitely take it back to them and point it out, they might have a more in depth look at things to find out why it’s happening. Hope you get sorted. I’ll update in here once I have the clutch and flywheel replaced but I’m fairly sure it won’t change much.
 

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The flywheel does seem like the more likely candidate, mine is a Type S also, wondering if this makes a difference as I believe it's different to the standard. Hope it fixes it for you, would appreciate an update either way.
 

Booleen97

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The flywheel does seem like the more likely candidate, mine is a Type S also, wondering if this makes a difference as I believe it's different to the standard. Hope it fixes it for you, would appreciate an update either way.
Just said I’d give an update on this.

changed the clutch and flywheel, Cox motor parts was great to deal with. The job went perfectly but still the shudder is there. For now, I’m just gonna live with it, I’ve kind of gotten used to it now and I cannot for the life of me figure out what is wrong. The only other solution is to check the other 2 engine mounts to see if they are worn but I’ve put too much money into the carat the moment so just gonna leave it as is.

if anyone every finds a solution to this, I will hail them God
 

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Thanks for the update, sorry you didn't find the solution. Quick update from me, took my car back to the garage I bought it from, both rear calipers were sticking, one wheel wouldn't turn at all, garage fixed no questions asked (Got to love Honda). I also lubricated the clutch which was squeaking. Judder is now far less noticeable than before, don't notice it at all in most situations.

Do you have any squeak in the clutch? It may be that there is some stiction there causing a jerky clutch release.
 

Booleen97

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Thanks for the reply.

I’m really glad you got sorted with your car. I was told before that one of my callipers were sticking which was the rear passenger but that was fixed when I first bought the car.

my clutch isn’t squeaking at all but I’m gonna wait until after Christmas and then take one last look into things.
 

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I've also had the rear passenger caliper stick but have had that replaced. I also have a creaking clutch pedal - had it for years before my shudder started.

I'm starting to wonder whether it is the Type S clutch being too powerful for the lower torque of the standard 150hp tune.
 

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If its the calipers all you need do is touch the wheels if you get burned they are sticking! Try this get the front wheels up against a high kerb set the hand brake on hard, go into 1st gear and and let the clutch out slowly until the engine stalls, This practice will burn off any contamination of the friction plate. Yes I know its a Honda but old fashioned remedies do still work SOMETIMES
 

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If its the calipers all you need do is touch the wheels if you get burned they are sticking! Try this get the front wheels up against a high kerb set the hand brake on hard, go into 1st gear and and let the clutch out slowly until the engine stalls, This practice will burn off any contamination of the friction plate. Yes I know its a Honda but old fashioned remedies do still work SOMETIMES
Purely by coincidence when I got bogged down in a field at the end of last year (I eventually managed to free off the car with a rope, a lot of digging and some paving slabs), I had to engage first and reverse multiple times with the engine just above idle to get some traction.

I have had a slipping clutch since I got the tourer five years ago, but since freeing off it has not reappeared.
 

Drejc112

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Hey,
I nevere got this sorted, but when i read the last post I wonder if my car needs a good old clutch slip to sort this one out. Strangely my car is typeS, even tuned to 210bhp and as I recall I hadn’t have that issue before the tune, after the tune i havent put much attention to the problem. My question is , if the tune was made with mybe a bit lower torque curve at the lower rpm?
 
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