Low power at low revs
- Thread starter olnmfc
- Start date
Dan Robinson
Grand High Plumber
How many miles was on the Bosch?
humour us.. just for a while
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humour us.. just for a while
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CJM
Dr. Diesel
:lol:
nope not going to fall off my stool, I'm just waiting for the time when your filter needs replacing!!
Did you read that thread by Ambrose on the after market filter, clearly your still a non believer on this?
Anyhow glad you've got it sorted, interesting that you didn't complain of any hesitation or jerkiness though.
Update guys - Fitted the Frequency Solenoid and it made no difference! strange why it made a difference when disconnected (although after a while car was back to its low power mode). Got a filter while at Honda but again no difference once fitted. So back to square one Im afraid despite everything on here! Oh well...
So what exactly is the problem now mate? When you say 'low power' at 'low revs' what specifically does that mean and are there any engine malfunction lights or codes that can be read? It could actually be normal on this car as these cars are a bit non responsive before the turbo kicks in (in standard factory maps).
thanks for quick reply - Theres no lights on, and the only code read was EGR restricted flow.
The low power means completely flat from 1300 to 2200. (If you lift off the throttle slightly it actually increases power from about 80% down to only 70% down! - ie slightly improved for a few seconds) When I first got car in Limp mode EML was on but car drove normally upto 2000 - so I know power is down but also just from experience of doing over half a million miles over the last 30 years!
Im wondering EVR, injector rail that two folk have mentioned here but its just what I didnt want to be happening - throwing money at it without really knowing....
The low power means completely flat from 1300 to 2200. (If you lift off the throttle slightly it actually increases power from about 80% down to only 70% down! - ie slightly improved for a few seconds) When I first got car in Limp mode EML was on but car drove normally upto 2000 - so I know power is down but also just from experience of doing over half a million miles over the last 30 years!
Im wondering EVR, injector rail that two folk have mentioned here but its just what I didnt want to be happening - throwing money at it without really knowing....
crespo
TAF Member
Have you tried giving your MAF sensor a clean.? Or even disconnecting it and going for a quick spin to see how the car behaves. It may throw the EML on but that will clear a little while after reconnecting it.
If your sluggishness disappears you can firmly point the finger at the MAF.
They are a barsteward to diagnose as they rarely register a fault on the ECU unless they are really ******ed but can transform the way your car drives. Best of all is that its free to check and is another possibility to cross off the list.
If your sluggishness disappears you can firmly point the finger at the MAF.
They are a barsteward to diagnose as they rarely register a fault on the ECU unless they are really ******ed but can transform the way your car drives. Best of all is that its free to check and is another possibility to cross off the list.
Gordon, restricted flow on the EGR side could actually indicate a knackered EGR valve really. It may be time to leave it with Honda for some proper diagnostics. They can manually check things like EGR and IMRC valve movement i.e. how many degrees open etc
Dan Robinson
Grand High Plumber
sorry bud, i maybe being a dumbass, but that made no sense.
mohammed
TAF Member
I fail to understand why people dont use oem fuel filters??? i am sure even to buy fuel filters seperately they are not that expensive compared to aftermarket ones, im all for PERFORMANCE UPGRADES ETC but some things just should be oem, especially if problems are caused by not using oem,but yet they will spend alot of money of trying to figure out problems with thier cars,rather than buying an oem fuel filter :wacko:
Another update guys! Hope might help someone else with similar probs someday, as Ive found trying to find answers on here a bit hidden in amoungst the other posts. Eg whilst reading that very log juddering post decided to look at the evr filter again I was on about. On the pre facelift its actually easy to remove the little fiter ANd disassemble the actual filter part or it. The paper style filter was dirty so made one up myself going by posts on the juddering topic snd refitted it this afternoon. Result is dramatic improvement. Car now has much better pick up from low revs but is still not smooth as it should be and also judders as I think folk on here have posted before. Remenber tho that ive just fitted a new frequency solenoid so its not that which is causing the juddering as has been diagnosed by others for that issue! Im getting there but progress is slow
I'll tru the maf as not actually had that off yet, just sprayef it eith egr cleaner many many time
P.s I have bougjt honda fuel filter also now...
Soz for typing.. Iphone
One last comment.. Amazed how such a small little filter (which is not supposed to be usually serviceable) can make such a difference... Never had these probs with all thr audi tdis ive had
I'll tru the maf as not actually had that off yet, just sprayef it eith egr cleaner many many time
P.s I have bougjt honda fuel filter also now...
Soz for typing.. Iphone
One last comment.. Amazed how such a small little filter (which is not supposed to be usually serviceable) can make such a difference... Never had these probs with all thr audi tdis ive had
Dan Robinson
Grand High Plumber
Pardon?
Are you saying by lifting the throttle slightly you get a 10% improvement in performance?
Are you saying by lifting the throttle slightly you get a 10% improvement in performance?
Dan Robinson
Grand High Plumber
I'll add some WD to my drinky and think a bit harder next time .
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mohammed
TAF Member
I thought Dan & I were just having a bit of fun until Admin stepped in with the heavy hand... Ho hum...
Anyhoo... to get back to the topic in question, yes I think this is an important issue for Accord owners!!!
The latest is that I disassembled the egr VAVLE but it was just a bit sooty, gave it a clean anyway with WD40... Also took off the MAF, but it was almost like new. Either it has been replaced or the EGR aerosol worked a treat.
BUT here's the interesting bit... I took off the right hand vacuum pipe from the EVR valve and a little hiss of air came out. Put it all back together and took it for a drive. Drove perfect, but within a few mises started misbehaving slightly. Came home took the same pipe off and another hiss of air.
Now this is making me - a) wonder if this air pressure is supposed to be there OR B) the EVR valve isnt working and me manually releasing the air pressure is doing what the valve should and therefore allowing the engine to operate properly for a few miles before resuming into misbehaviour. Im just going for another little drive so will stop and take off/on a few times to check. could also unplug the wiring connector to see if that does the same effect. IF so then I think its pointing to the EVR valve and I'll have bought the Frequency Solenoid in error (no returns accepted at Honda).
so when I changed the filter in the EVR valve yesterday and the car was better or before when the car was better, all thats probably just been a coincidence because I'll have had the vacuum pipes off at the same time... its all beginning to make a bit more sense. I hate problems that you cant ****yse
Will report back later as long as Im not banned by then by Admin... (Admin humour goes both ways) ATB
Anyhoo... to get back to the topic in question, yes I think this is an important issue for Accord owners!!!
The latest is that I disassembled the egr VAVLE but it was just a bit sooty, gave it a clean anyway with WD40... Also took off the MAF, but it was almost like new. Either it has been replaced or the EGR aerosol worked a treat.
BUT here's the interesting bit... I took off the right hand vacuum pipe from the EVR valve and a little hiss of air came out. Put it all back together and took it for a drive. Drove perfect, but within a few mises started misbehaving slightly. Came home took the same pipe off and another hiss of air.
Now this is making me - a) wonder if this air pressure is supposed to be there OR B) the EVR valve isnt working and me manually releasing the air pressure is doing what the valve should and therefore allowing the engine to operate properly for a few miles before resuming into misbehaviour. Im just going for another little drive so will stop and take off/on a few times to check. could also unplug the wiring connector to see if that does the same effect. IF so then I think its pointing to the EVR valve and I'll have bought the Frequency Solenoid in error (no returns accepted at Honda).
so when I changed the filter in the EVR valve yesterday and the car was better or before when the car was better, all thats probably just been a coincidence because I'll have had the vacuum pipes off at the same time... its all beginning to make a bit more sense. I hate problems that you cant ****yse
Will report back later as long as Im not banned by then by Admin... (Admin humour goes both ways) ATB
crespo
TAF Member
A dodgy MAF will look like new. Its the tiny particles of soot etc that get stuck to the little metal elements that cause the issues. Best way to clean them is to spray it with carb cleaner and rinse gently with warm water after. What ever you do DO NOT TOUCH THE METAL ELEMENTS with ear buds or your fingers or anything for that matter. You will kill your MAF.
Out of interest did you try driving the car with the MAF unplugged to see the car picks up better at low revs.
Out of interest did you try driving the car with the MAF unplugged to see the car picks up better at low revs.
I concur, these filters are extremely easy to replace. I've done mine, remove it from the solenoid, pop the top off and replace the filthy filter! (They were absolutely black and clogged). They use the same material that the air filter is made from, I had an old one lying around in the garage, so cut it apart and there was plenty of clean material to cut two small circles out, about the size of a penny. Refit the filters and job done, 10 minutes.
So many items now are considered throw away, when they can successfully be serviced, a sign of times. This is not a bodge or a temporary fix, its a good way to service a part that is deemed disposable and the result will be a good a new part. Be a good engineer and don't throw it, repair it.
PS A drop of WD40 before popping the top off will allow it to come apart more easily, it is very good at lubricating plastic parts and helps them slip!
Ezhik - thankyou thankyou
Ive got some news...
Removing those evr pipes seems to have beem another red herring made no difference. On or off in isolation from doing anything else. There was only one other thing I did today which was to dis ***emble the egr and clean it with wd40. The car has been running fine for another 100 or so miles now which leads me to think it was a dirty egr after all being the main cause. Remember my initial fault code was egr restricted flow.
So in summary Im afraid that wd40 and some time has saved me 700 quid. Dont be so quick to write off engineer fixes as the above poster says. Mechanics these days are unfortunately more often than not nothing more than fitters. They just want to remove the defective part and fit a new one. In todays world of environmental efficiency we should embrace the old values of true mechanicing more. Take a trip out to south eastern asia to open your eyes in that context (not to mention a whole lot of others too!)
Anyway I hope we've learned something... ATB
Ive got some news...
Removing those evr pipes seems to have beem another red herring made no difference. On or off in isolation from doing anything else. There was only one other thing I did today which was to dis ***emble the egr and clean it with wd40. The car has been running fine for another 100 or so miles now which leads me to think it was a dirty egr after all being the main cause. Remember my initial fault code was egr restricted flow.
So in summary Im afraid that wd40 and some time has saved me 700 quid. Dont be so quick to write off engineer fixes as the above poster says. Mechanics these days are unfortunately more often than not nothing more than fitters. They just want to remove the defective part and fit a new one. In todays world of environmental efficiency we should embrace the old values of true mechanicing more. Take a trip out to south eastern asia to open your eyes in that context (not to mention a whole lot of others too!)
Anyway I hope we've learned something... ATB
Dan Robinson
Grand High Plumber
Glad you seem to have a solution. A summarising post might be helpful as you covered a lot here?!
I agree whole heartedly with your engineering principles; a reason I use the products I use in my line of work.
Keep us posted with your results. these faults have proven to be stubborn, a few pictures for context would be nice?
I agree whole heartedly with your engineering principles; a reason I use the products I use in my line of work.
Keep us posted with your results. these faults have proven to be stubborn, a few pictures for context would be nice?
CJM
Dr. Diesel
Ezhik - thankyou thankyou
Ive got some news...
Removing those evr pipes seems to have beem another red herring made no difference. On or off in isolation from doing anything else. There was only one other thing I did today which was to dis ***emble the egr and clean it with wd40. The car has been running fine for another 100 or so miles now which leads me to think it was a dirty egr after all being the main cause. Remember my initial fault code was egr restricted flow.
So in summary Im afraid that wd40 and some time has saved me 700 quid. Dont be so quick to write off engineer fixes as the above poster says. Mechanics these days are unfortunately more often than not nothing more than fitters. They just want to remove the defective part and fit a new one. In todays world of environmental efficiency we should embrace the old values of true mechanicing more. Take a trip out to south eastern asia to open your eyes in that context (not to mention a whole lot of others too!)
Anyway I hope we've learned something... ATB
Fingers crossed for you that issue is solved.
Can you please just confirm whether you have now also fitted the new Bosch filter as you recently suggested that the previous Bosch filter could have been on for 50K and had rust around the top.
In respect of cleaning the EGR, what did you do differently from the other times that you mentioned in the thread?
I understand your point of view on modern mechanics, however unfortunately it is now sadly quite often the case that many parts are either not serviceable in a time efficient way, that would cost less than replacing the part. In respect of the EGR personally I think cleaning it should be tried first and I seem to recall that some dealers have done so. unfortunately your EGR is electronically controlled and therefore you cannot ever rule out and electrical fault 100%, unlike on the vacuum controlled valve, where it is either clogged, lack of vacuum or broken diaphragm. Therefore would you be prepared to pay for the extra labour in cleaning the valve, later to find out it was the electronics.
As previously pointed out the i-ctdi is a very sophisticated engine and when something is not quite right, it will complain about it. I'm not trying to burst your bubble here but personally I would reserve judgement on the fix until after say 1 to 2k, as you have found out the engine can throw out many red herrings, many of which can be the ECU re-learning and initially widening the operating ranges, it is only when the ECU has re-calculated your driving style etc and settles down again generally between 100 to 200 miles that issues can re-appear if not correctly fixed.
Going back to the pipe hissing when removed from the EVR, was this each time, also where did the pipe trace back to ?
Just a link to another couple of threads, more related to turbo issues, which may be of some help. should the issue re-appear.
Foot down but no response
Help intermittent loss of power
Too true. I usually take everything apart to see how it works! I had the P2004 DTC code which was due to the IMRC solenoid. Honda acknowledged the original design was in error and produced an improved part, for £105. I had to get it, but afterwards took the old one apart to see why it might have been leaking vacuum. I suspect it was a poor seal around the top cap, and if re-***embled with some sealer would probably have been OK. I may still do that and put it back on to test
Repair it, where its possible, it won't be a bodge!