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Not happy with the brakes

-Rich-

-Rich-

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Messages
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Location
Rickmansworth
Car
2.4 Tourer Auto
I know the tourer is a big heavy car but the brakes just feel too soft for me and there is abit of travel in the pedal before anything really happens, despite having the fluid flushed and replaced.

Looking at the service history the fronts are standard Honda discs and pads, the rears and standard discs but pattern pads. I've already stripped the rear brakes down to clean and grease them but I'm going to do the fronts as well. There is probably 1/3 of material left on the pads so I'm thinking of changing them and the discs at the same time.

I've always been a fan of Mintex but have read Pagid are popular on here but ECP list 2 different discs, which ones would I need?

If that doesn't improve things will changing the flexi hoses help, if I do all 4 and would I benefit from getting braided ones?
 
do you ever do a running brake test? if not try this, pick a clear stretch of road no followers! get up to 30mph, and slam the brakes on you will soon know if they are working as they should, expect lots of shuddering as the abs comes into play, if none of this happens then get them replaced asap.
 
TBH - I had the same problem with my tourer. Replaced the existing pads that has mileage on them with Genuine Honda and the stopping grab increased no end!
 
you won't notice much difference if you change just pads and discs, try to upgrade calipers for some twin pots from ATR or from ATS which have even bigger discs, then braided hoses and this should work for you ;-)
 
I've upgraded pads, rotors (into slotted), brake lines and new fluid

Didn't make much difference, it's just how it's designed I guess
 
edgeoftime said:
do you ever do a running brake test? if not try this, pick a clear stretch of road no followers! get up to 30mph, and slam the brakes on you will soon know if they are working as they should, expect lots of shuddering as the abs comes into play, if none of this happens then get them replaced asap.
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Yes the brakes do work fine if you slam on but with gentle braking it doesn't really feel like anything is happening until you've pushed the pedal in quite abit. I'm used to cars with sharp brakes, my missus Civic is like that even with gentle braking. Even she had commented on how soft the Accord brakes are.

brodziu said:
you won't notice much difference if you change just pads and discs, try to upgrade calipers for some twin pots from ATR or from ATS which have even bigger discs, then braided hoses and this should work for you ;-)
Click to expand...
I think that might be overkill for a family car :lol:

Fredoops said:
I've upgraded pads, rotors (into slotted), brake lines and new fluid

Didn't make much difference, it's just how it's designed I guess
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It does sound like this is how they are as standard but I'll change the discs/pads soon anyway and go from there. The car has done 100k miles now so I might do the flexi hoses anyway. The rears on the tourer are known for going bad anyway but with most of the braking done by the fronts I don't think that would be causing them to feel soft.
 
-Rich- said:
It does sound like this is how they are as standard but I'll change the discs/pads soon anyway and go from there. The car has done 100k miles now so I might do the flexi hoses anyway. The rears on the tourer are known for going bad anyway but with most of the braking done by the fronts I don't think that would be causing them to feel soft.
Click to expand...
I personally think it's the firewall flex thats causing the "mushy pedal"

Pity they dont make something like this for our cars:

http://www.cusco.co.jp/en/parts_product/products/brake_master_cylinder_stopper.html
 
Honestly - I too had poor stopping response from my car. I thought it was the norm but then I replaced by front pads with new OEM ones (there was plenty of left on them) as the discs had a significant lip on them and the improvement was incredible. So much so, I'd to re-adjust my braking style to smoothen the stops out.
 
jayok said:
Honestly - I too had poor stopping response from my car. I thought it was the norm but then I replaced by front pads with new OEM ones (there was plenty of left on them) as the discs had a significant lip on them and the improvement was incredible. So much so, I'd to re-adjust my braking style to smoothen the stops out.
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I've not been on for a while so only just seen this. The front brakes are already OEM and there is still plenty of meat on the pads. They definitely work ok, I've had to do a couple of emergency stops in the wet recently and they were fine. It's when I'm braking gently, it just seems to take forever for the car to stop and they feel alot softer.

When they're due a change I'll see if things improve...
 
Hi Rich, Are you sure there is not a slight bit of air left in the system as I don't think you'd notice when slamming the brakes on but on gentle braking it could cause the lack lustre feel you getting?
 
Pete1958 said:
Hi Rich, Are you sure there is not a slight bit of air left in the system as I don't think you'd notice when slamming the brakes on but on gentle braking it could cause the lack lustre feel you getting?
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It's possible but the garage I use are pretty spot on and I think they would've bled them properly. I'm going to go down there this week and get them to take it for a test drive, I'm still not happy.

This morning I pulled out of my drive and braked gently at the end of the road (doing 10mph) but the next time the pedal felt really spongy and there was alot of travel before the brakes worked. I hadn't used the car over the weekend (I don't usually) but it was fairly warm this morning, I'm wondering if that might have contributed?

Are the master cylinders reliable on the 7th gen?

As mentioned before the front brakes are Honda ones and there is still plenty of material left. I don't want to spend £100 replacing them and I still have the problem so I'm thinking of changing the flexi hoses first. It looks like standard replacement ones will cost around £80 to do all 4 but would braided hoses cost the same or improve the feel on a road car?
 
You could try braded brake lines, this will eliminate any possible flex when pressure is flowing through the lines. Shouldn't be too expensive but set aside a few quid if you arn't going to DIY.
 
hey Rich, I recently bought a tourer s type and I'm not happy with the brakes at all. Actually, your problem sounds exactly like mine - nothing happening at first, until you press the pedal almost half the way through..
thought it was from the old tyres or pads - got new tyres, new pads at front, new fluid and system bled - still the same.. not sure if it's by design or what, I also used to drive a car with very sharp pedal and braking
there's one more thing though - when at full stop, if I press the pedal 7-8 times rapidly, the next time it stops like it should, which sounds like a faulty servo/mc or air somewhere in the system?

will be changing all brake lines next week and will let you know if there's any improvement. hoping it's not the master cylinder gone.. ($$)
 
might be worth changing the callipers - could be pistons in the callipers could be slightly seized or slow moving hence the soft brake feel. its not cheap to replace all the callipers but could be something to think about
 
I have Front Mintex pads and disks grooved with holes, i highly recommend them they can take a lot and have some serious stopping power.
 
Hmmm... I am dubious about drilled discs/rotors. For the Accord heat dissipation is not really a massive issue (unless you're tracking) and in reality the drilled brakes offer less surface friction than a solid disc. It would be different for say a Porsche that has massive calipers and discs, but for the Accord... hmmmm...

Not doubting the pads help, but would they not be better with solid discs?
 
dynacord said:
hey Rich, I recently bought a tourer s type and I'm not happy with the brakes at all. Actually, your problem sounds exactly like mine - nothing happening at first, until you press the pedal almost half the way through..
thought it was from the old tyres or pads - got new tyres, new pads at front, new fluid and system bled - still the same.. not sure if it's by design or what, I also used to drive a car with very sharp pedal and braking
there's one more thing though - when at full stop, if I press the pedal 7-8 times rapidly, the next time it stops like it should, which sounds like a faulty servo/mc or air somewhere in the system?

will be changing all brake lines next week and will let you know if there's any improvement. hoping it's not the master cylinder gone.. ($$)
Click to expand...
Hi mate, have you changed the lines yet, was there any improvement?

If I press the pedal several times it makes no difference, they still feel soft but they do the job and stop the car.

accord_n22 said:
might be worth changing the callipers - could be pistons in the callipers could be slightly seized or slow moving hence the soft brake feel. its not cheap to replace all the callipers but could be something to think about
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I replaced 3 calipers on my last car and I don't fancy doing it again, hopefully they just need a good clean, which I'm going to do soon. I'll inspect the discs and pads as well, it could be a pad or 2 is seized in the carrier.

Roberts14 said:
I have Front Mintex pads and disks grooved with holes, i highly recommend them they can take a lot and have some serious stopping power.
Click to expand...
When I do replace them I'll be getting Mintex, used them for years and they're very good, just a little dusty.

r3dd3v1l said:
maybe its due new fluid or a bleed.
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This was done a couple of months ago so it's not that and I don't think there is air in the system still, the pedal doesn't go any harder if I pump it.
 
Hi Rich,

not changed the lines yet, planning to do this on thursday. Actually, two pads were seized on the rear calipers (guess they were very old and some cheap brand, needed a BIG hammer to get them out?!), replaced them, but nothing really changed, still there is a lot of travel of the pedal to stop braking.
I was planning to get this kit http://www.demon-tweeks.co.uk/performance/brake-line-kits/car/honda/accord-03-08/2003/2-4-cl9/goodridge-stainless-brakeline-kit-zinc-plated-fittings-4-line-kit, but the delivery time is way too much to my country, so I will be changing to OEMs. Will tell when this is done.

Regards, Alex
 
I finally got around to stripping the front brakes today after buying a 7mm hex socket. The discs looked pretty rusty with the inside face having a ring of rust which the pad makes contact with. I measured the brake thickness with a ruler so not accurate but it was 23mm minus a fraction to account for the lip. The min thickness is 23mm.

I decided to check the MOT history online and it got an advisory for front pads at 68k miles. At 74k miles it failed on them and they were replaced.

This is the only mention in the full history I have about the front brakes, there is nothing about discs being replaced. The car has done 102k miles now so I have to ***ume they have never been replaced! Unless they were done around 50k miles but the paperwork was left out.
 
You mention discs and pads were changed,When was the brake and discs changed? If recent they need a suitable amount of miles to bed in. Approx 500 ish miles of braking.

The upgraded brake lines won't make much difference unless you are on track or pushing the car really hard. For normal driving the stock brake lines are perfectly fine.

When was the last time brake fluid was flushed? Brake fluid is hygroscopic so it takes on water over time. My bet is the spongey feeling is old brake fluid.


Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk
 
accord_n22 said:
You mention discs and pads were changed,When was the brake and discs changed? If recent they need a suitable amount of miles to bed in. Approx 500 ish miles of braking.

The upgraded brake lines won't make much difference unless you are on track or pushing the car really hard. For normal driving the stock brake lines are perfectly fine.

When was the last time brake fluid was flushed? Brake fluid is hygroscopic so it takes on water over time. My bet is the spongey feeling is old brake fluid.


Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Brake discs and brake pads have been changed 5.000kms ago, same for brake fluid because I've repaired my rear calipers.
 
When you changed your brake discs did you remember to degrease them first before fitting?
 
If you're still getting spongey brakes I'd have a good look around the car for leaks in the system. Check underneath for rusting and leaking brake pipes and check the rubber hoses for leaks too. If they're ok then maybe have a go at bleeding the system again.
 
Alans27 said:
If you're still getting spongey brakes I'd have a good look around the car for leaks in the system. Check underneath for rusting and leaking brake pipes and check the rubber hoses for leaks too. If they're ok then maybe have a go at bleeding the system again.
Click to expand...
If no leaks then keep bleeding the system.

My mate's old Civic had an issue with spongy brake feel, we bled the system numerous times before we got that solid brake feel again.
 
My car passed MOT test without any problem a month ago, so I don't think there is a leak somewhere.

BUT I saw yesterday that there is some kind of deposit in the master cylinder tank.

zkqh.jpg


5a2a.jpg


I think disassemble the tank to clean it and then do a full purge of the brake circuit
 
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