Jon_G
No Longer Active
What's the difference between a genuine part and an OEM part?exec said:
so how much of your Accord is an off-the-shelf design
- Thread starter freddofrog
- Start date
Goodluckmonkey
TA Friends
The name on the packet.
Same part but either bought through Honda or the people that manufactured the original.
Like buying a Bilstein damper from Subaru, or direct from Bilstein, like i did with my last car.
Same part but either bought through Honda or the people that manufactured the original.
Like buying a Bilstein damper from Subaru, or direct from Bilstein, like i did with my last car.
Jon_G
No Longer Active
It's amazing how many believe that it's a better part when comes in a box with HONDA written on it though...
Goodluckmonkey
TA Friends
Hahaha. Very true.
For me it was the same part, but for £179 as opposed to £690.
And of course, I needed two of 'em.
When things are like that from the manufacturer, no wonder so many vehicles become cat D's.
Used to do insurance ***essments on motorcycles at the dealer.
Would ask the customer if they wanted is to save it from being written off with some of the less common stuff, because with the price of some components, you could easily spin it either way for the sake of a small nick in the finish.
A fuel tank was typically 10% of the bike price, as was one complete leg of a fork ***embly, with a wheel rim not far behind.
For me it was the same part, but for £179 as opposed to £690.
And of course, I needed two of 'em.
When things are like that from the manufacturer, no wonder so many vehicles become cat D's.
Used to do insurance ***essments on motorcycles at the dealer.
Would ask the customer if they wanted is to save it from being written off with some of the less common stuff, because with the price of some components, you could easily spin it either way for the sake of a small nick in the finish.
A fuel tank was typically 10% of the bike price, as was one complete leg of a fork ***embly, with a wheel rim not far behind.
Channel Hopper
Members
I was going to say - priceGoodluckmonkey said:
There was a parts site for Ducati owners that would bring up alternative non-branded items that were from the same source, quite often they would be a third of the cost.
The car marque industry however is a different matter - Lucas for example
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/JAGUAR-XKE-ASTON-MARTIN-TRIUMPH-MATCHED-PAIR-LUCAS-HORNS-NOS-69219-69220-9H-/332091202978?hash=item4d522d9da2:g:0vkAAOSwKOJYJN~q
or Fiamm
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/FIAMM-ROAD-MASTER-AIR-HORN-COMPRESSOR-FERRARI-MASERATI-LAMBORGHINI-USED-WORKS-/122307998510?hash=item1c7a1ff32e:g:5EIAAOSw241YdntN
freddofrog
won 16.4k on Euro lottery :)
I was being a bit light-hearted when I started this, didn't want to be contentious.
But yes, obviously there are some areas of a car that are "bespoke" (using the word as a design rather than a product such as a bridge). Obviously the body shell and panels and light-enclosures are "bespoke", but, even the actual process for large-scale production of the "bespoke" parts is also "off-the-shelf". All car manufacturers have a close relationship with the companies that produce the "bespoke" parts, but then there are loads of "non-bespoke" or "off-the-shelf" designs and parts.
To my way of thinking, It is the Honda petrol engines (and gearboxes?) that are true Honda, they share little (if anything) in common with other marques. Those are not "off-the-shelf", they are truly "bespoke".
But the problem is that many people who buy cars, whatever the marque and model, think that every single part of their car was designed in-house by some R&D guru, and that includes the ICE, NAVI, aircon, braking system, etc, etc.
But yes, obviously there are some areas of a car that are "bespoke" (using the word as a design rather than a product such as a bridge). Obviously the body shell and panels and light-enclosures are "bespoke", but, even the actual process for large-scale production of the "bespoke" parts is also "off-the-shelf". All car manufacturers have a close relationship with the companies that produce the "bespoke" parts, but then there are loads of "non-bespoke" or "off-the-shelf" designs and parts.
To my way of thinking, It is the Honda petrol engines (and gearboxes?) that are true Honda, they share little (if anything) in common with other marques. Those are not "off-the-shelf", they are truly "bespoke".
But the problem is that many people who buy cars, whatever the marque and model, think that every single part of their car was designed in-house by some R&D guru, and that includes the ICE, NAVI, aircon, braking system, etc, etc.
Genuine is just one bought through the Car manufacturer, it will be stamped as Honda, Toyota etc.Goodluckmonkey said:
OEM obviously as the name states is the original manufacturer that made it, same part but no car manf branding on it.
Good example is my dad has a Kia, which uses a Hyundai engine, when I first serviced it I bought a genuine Hyundai filter from ebay from Hyundai dealer store. Although it was stamped Hyundai etc it did still have MANN (the OEM), so I found the OEM part on ECP, exact same part by MANN so this is classed as an OEM part, was good couple of quid cheaper. Alternatively a pattern part would be a copy/replica of the genuine/oem part, made by a non OEM, sometimes these are cheap poor quality parts, sometimes they are just as good as geneuine or OEM or near enough, usually classed as OE quality, one popular such brand is Blueprint, who also make OEM parts for some brands.
Depends on the context, if your buy a clutch and its made by LUK and you have the option to buy a genuine Honda clutch or buy the OEM LUK branded part, it is pretty pointless, unless of course the genuine is cheaper or same price. In this scenario the most rational choice is to go for the cheapest and save yourself a few quid. But if you have the choice of a genuine Honda part and a pattern part, even an OE pattern part, the genuine part is still better in my opinion. Take for example buying genuine Honda HT leads which cost £100, they are guaranteed (baring any manufacturing fault) to last 10+ years, whereas say a £50 Blueprint OE part you might get half the working life of the genuine part. Fortunately you can get the OEM NGK part for a price inbetween the two.
At the end of the day you want to make a choice that makes the most financial sense. No point getting mugged on a part cos its genuine branded, meanwhile its not always economical buying a cheap pattern part that doesnt last very long.
I think it's an interesting discussion. Some really good points made here. Agree with you there, a lot of people do have that misconception, which is kind of silly, as imagine the cost to the manufacturer if they manufacturered every nook and cranny of the car inhouse. We would probably pay 100k for a Honda Jazz. It makes far more sense to outsource and it also makes sense to use off the shelf where possible as its ultimately cheaper.freddofrog said:
Your right Honda design, engineer and manufacturer all their engines and gearboxes. They have used other brand engine and gearbox in one or two models where they did not have such a product, as mentioned by someone the 1.7 Isuzu diesel when Honda did not have any diesel engines, also used Rover diesel I think and IIRC they have used once a DCT gearbox from another brand when they didnt have a DCT box. But in general they make all their own engine and gearboxes, they actually designed their own automatic gearbox originally as the autobox was patented and everyone had to pay a licence to BorgWarner I believe, so rather than do that Honda went back to drawing book and made their own planetary type autobox called the Hondamatic. 90% of car manufacturers do not make their own gearboxes, they are bought off the shelf, for example VAG group DSG gearbox is not their invention or design, it is BorgWarner and VAG just have exclusive license to it, like with a lot of AWD system in cars like the Haldex etc.
The unique thing with Honda is since they are an engineering company, they often tend to go and do their own thing, which is quite eccentric for a car brand, which they are famed for.
SayamaAccord
And still...
As an outsider to all this I ***ume there are quality as cost reasons for leaving well alone rather than making changes for change's sake.Richard B said:
For example if I was a Honda engineer designing a car's cooling system, I don't think I'd want to interfere with a radiator designed by an engineer at Denso who has spent years just designing radiators and nothing else - certainly not without a very good reason, anyway.
Exactly. If you are on the design team and you want to make a change, you need to convince your boss that the cost of that change translates to profitability down the line, whether it's addressing an outstanding reliability issue, or a cool new thing that attracts new customers.Cliffordski said:
^ Yeh, thats why you will find on Honda's anyway previously they used to reuse the same design and parts over few generations and product ranges. For example the indicator stalks, the rev counter, speedo etc, inside door switches, interestingly the 5th gen had different types, whereas the 6th gen had one very similar to the 2nd gen Accord.
It makes sense to reuse some parts both from financial point of view but also reliability as you mention, when you have a design that works reliably and has been refined you keep using it.
It makes sense to reuse some parts both from financial point of view but also reliability as you mention, when you have a design that works reliably and has been refined you keep using it.