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To part exchange or not part exchange that is the question

T

teddy123

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Location
Portsmouth
Car
Honda Accord
Hi,
I own a 2005 Honda Accord 2.2 diesel sport saloon which at the moment drives very well..
It has covered 95,000 miles and has a full Honda service history.

I bought the car from Honda main dealer 3 years ago I paid £3,999 plus I got £2,000 for my fab Honda Shuttle total £5,999 which I thought was a bargain.
When I drove it home that day I stopped off at another Honda dealers and asked for a free health check. He pointed out that I desperately needed among other things 4 new brake disc and pads, he even put it in writing for me. Took it back to where I bought it I was pumped up and expecting a lot of hassle but Honda to thier credit were brilliant and done the work and more without any fuss.

It is now 7 years old I have just 6 weeks left on Hondas extended warranty mainly the expensive Timing chain (£2500) and manifold (£1,000) problems.
Also and especially with the 2005 Accord diesel I could be facing VSA modulator failure (£1,800) clutch and DMF (£1,700) and possible turbo failure which when added altogether is a hell of a lot of money.

I know Honda will sometimes contribute to cars that are out of warranty but I want to avoid the expensive problems and I am thinking about part exchanging for another Accord. I would like to get another diesel maybe 07/08 if I'm lucky but even these have problems so I might even think about a petrol model. I don't mind problems it's just the huge expense that comes with it.
Would it be unethical of me over the next 6 weeks to approch Honda dealers and say " I have a rattle it must be the timing chain" or " there is fumes in my car it must be the manifold" or any other thing (even though there isn't) just to get warranty work done. Or should I cut my losses and get a part exchange from Honda who value the car at £3,000 - £3,500.
 
Barry.

I may be in the same seat as you...Whilst the diesel is a great car... on going issues are making me think about another car. I dont need a diesel as i dont do the milage anymore, but i do love all the torque.

I will be closely watching this :)
 
TheHole said:
Barry.

I may be in the same seat as you...Whilst the diesel is a great car... on going issues are making me think about another car. I dont need a diesel as i dont do the milage anymore, but i do love all the torque.

I will be closely watching this :)
Click to expand...

Alright Adam,

Yeh, it's through reading forums like this and seeing your problem and many other Accord especially the 2005 diesel's that makes me think do I really need a diesel not to mention the DPF problems on newer cars.
Like you I don't do the miles anymore. Plus I now got a works van which I can use for private use but I got to move fast as the missus has got her eye on a Jazz.
 
Why not just buy another Honda Extended Warranty for peace of mind and keep the car you have? Or buy the Jazz ;)
 
kinda in the same boat, just the thought of getting 3.5k for the accord annoys me. what else do you get for that money.
without starting another petrol v diesel argument,
maybe some views on here are starting to rub off on me,
will miss the torque though :(
 
I kinda feel the same, reading all the threads on here makes me paranoid summat is going to go wrong and also the fact it only does around 45mpg when I bought a diesel for economy, kinda wish I kept the Civic VTIS it used to do nearly 38mpg driving it like I drive the Accord and its still going strong with just over 206k on it now.
 
davecmr said:
Why not just buy another Honda Extended Warranty for peace of mind and keep the car you have? Or buy the Jazz ;)
Click to expand...

Looked into Honda extended warranty it is £299. For a start it doesn't cover everything and Honda will not do another year (they only cover for 8 years) after that.
If I took out the warranty and wanted to sell my car next year I would lose another £1,000 on value of car so overall extended warranty wouldn't work for me.
Actually I might do a bit more research into a Jazz as it's not as small as I thought.
 
my problem is i need a good sized car, it needs to be accord sized , maybe even tourer sized.
 
I don't really see the issue. You're worrying about problems that 'might' happen. That's what warranties are for. There are plenty of private warranty companies out there, just shop around get one and continue enjoying the car.

What's to say the car you replace it with isn't riddled with problems?
 
F6HAD said:
I don't really see the issue. You're worrying about problems that 'might' happen. That's what warranties are for. There are plenty of private warranty companies out there, just shop around get one and continue enjoying the car.

What's to say the car you replace it with isn't riddled with problems?
Click to expand...

Aah Fahad...... with age comes wisdom my son,

It's the price of these repairs that I have an issue with and anticipating problems before they happen is part and parcel of buying/selling cars.
The car that I replace it with will be newer and will come with a warranty and as I have said before a warranty on my car is out of the question for reasons I have already given. Warranties don't cover things like VSA for instance and Hondas 7 year or 62,000 miles (on a diesel?) means drivers like me will miss out on a £1,800 VSA free repair. From what I have read there are an awful lot of people driving around quite happily for years in a 04/05 high mileage Accord diesel with a permenant VSA light on but will now have to get it fixed or fail the new MOT rules from April onwards. It does annoy me. Anyway it will all work out in the end I'm sure.
 
hobnob said:
The car that I replace it with will be newer and will come with a warranty
Click to expand...
Tell that to the people who bought a new Saab last year!! My mates '56 9-3 estate has a trac error light on, and he's told they can't get the unit at all let alone it being expensive!! That's that car scrapped at the next MOT then.
 
HuskyMan said:
Tell that to the people who bought a new Saab last year!! My mates '56 9-3 estate has a trac error light on, and he's told they can't get the unit at all let alone it being expensive!! That's that car scrapped at the next MOT then.
Click to expand...

Wow. That is incredible. Can your mate not get the part even in a breakers yard? Well at least I can rule out a Saab.
 
I think he's going to hunt around, this is basically Saab UK saying they can't get parts and all warranties are void even on brand new cars from last year!! I wouldn't think it's impossible to find parts really.
 
Some times this forum depresses me, I wish someone would compile a proper list of "known" faults and then do a survey of how many of these faults have emerged and to whom. That way we would be able to see if the fears can be justified. For myself I bought the Accord diesel Tourer on the strenght of a comparison report against the Mazda 6, in 12 months the Mazda had had almost everything that could go go wrong during the same period the Honda had suffered one fault, the "alarm" failed to set. mine had done 90,000 when I got it, a 54 model it is now approaching 170, 000 all I have go wrong is Brakes discs and pads, one new caliper r/n/s and flexible pipe, rear drop links and anti roll bar bushes, front nearside lower suspension joint. Change the oil every 6.000 and add a oil filter at 12,000. Oh yes I had to take it a dealer to get headlamps clipped. Very Very Happy Bunny. As I have stated before on here if you want a "racer" then go for vtec.
 
Problem is this is a car forum, and nobody ever comes on here to say 'oh look how well my car is running'. I'm not saying your fears are unfounded, but things like VSA modulator only go if someone strikes it whilst undertaking some other work under the bonnet. Timing chains don't just go one day, they get progressively worse and if you're maintaining a good servicing regime now, there is no reason it will give you problems..

Clutch failures are a genuinely common problem, but DMF failure is rare. A clutch will cost your £600 from Honda with a 12 month warranty. And turbo failures? It's a Honda, not a Vauxhall or Ford.
 
F6HAD said:
Problem is this is a car forum, and nobody ever comes on here to say 'oh look how well my car is running'. I'm not saying your fears are unfounded, but things like VSA modulator only go if someone strikes it whilst undertaking some other work under the bonnet. Timing chains don't just go one day, they get progressively worse and if you're maintaining a good servicing regime now, there is no reason it will give you problems..

Clutch failures are a genuinely common problem, but DMF failure is rare. A clutch will cost your £600 from Honda with a 12 month warranty. And turbo failures? It's a Honda, not a Vauxhall or Ford.
Click to expand...

Sorry but I am not convinced with the work under the bonnet VSA theory. The VSA modulator can and will fail (I am talking about the 05 diesel) at anytime it is a manufacturing fault hence the extended warranty which is a joke at 62,000 miles for a diesel. The work under bonnet thing is only theory and can not possibly be the cause of every failure as you make out. If I had a VSA failure I would be quite happy driving around with a perm light on but the new MOT rules is putting paid to that.

The price of a clutch replacement is definitely £850 and that is Honda Happiness prices and I have read (on here I think) drivers have had to change clutches even after that because of the common problem. And yes timing chains on any car not just the Accord (thats why they issued ex/warranty) do snap without warning as do turbo failures. To be fair to some Honda dealers they have been very good with replacing the timing chain if you can prove there is a rattle but if a dealer says there is no rattle what do you do?.

If I had all the thousands of pounds of extended warranty work done free which some people (and good luck to them) have had done I would be very, very happy and wouldn't even consider changing my car. The issue for me is not 'oh look how well my car is running' but to learn from other Accord owners especially this 05 diesel model with all it's known faults and get their views on wether the expensive repairs VSA, Timing chain, Manifold etc that they have had/will have is worth it or get £3,000 as part ex Thanks by the way to those who have replied so far.
 
Cars are a gamble, you can buy an expensive car with the best reviews and have all sorts of trouble, or you can buy an old cheap banger and run it on consumable parts for the next 10 years, you just don't know. Going for the well reviewed reliable car gives you the best chance of being trouble free, but makes it harder to take when you have loads of problems.
You sound like the kind of person who wants peace of mind though - the fixed rate mortgage kind of guy, will pay half a percent more for the security etc. - so I'd suggest looking at 3rd party warranty deals, I don't know much about them but I know you can get them to cover additional faults that manufacturer warranties don't. Then it's just a case of getting whichever car you want/can afford, keep yours if you like it or get a new one.

Personally I agree with Faddy, not so much on the technical side of things but on the problems of looking on forums. I was stressing over having driveshaft failure on my car when I started feeling some vibration, I asked the garage when I happened to be in there and the guy said in the 6 years he's been there he doesn't remember any Accord coming in with driveshaft/CV issues!! Yet this forum makes it sound like a certainty on the diesel once you hit 80-100k.
 
^^ and that's my point. Issues become amplified here because a few members will have had them, and then it sounds like everyone has had them.

Also the VSA modulator failures are not 'theory'. Please bear in mind we've been running with this community for over 4 years now on a daily basis. I am yet to see a VSA failure that did not happen long after some relatively major work under the bonnet. Even the last one I saw a few weeks back happened 2 weeks after a clutch install, and it wasn't until I mentioned it to the guy that he made the link.

Trev's right - your perspective is possibly a little different to most people. And it goes back to my original point, if you want peace of mind, buy a warranty (and I wasn't refering to a Honda warranty).
 
No trev's wrong I am not in anyway a fixed rate mortgage kinda guy LOL far from it. Thanks for the summing up tho trev it made me smile anyway.
I would be interested to know what 3rd party warranty company you could recommend and would they cover the parts that are a problem? I don't mind finding out.
As regards to the VSA theory of yours we shall just have to agree to disagree on that one .
 
Not a theory, more an observation ;)

But yes, let's agree to disagree.
 
hobnob said:
No trev's wrong I am not in anyway a fixed rate mortgage kinda guy LOL far from it. Thanks for the summing up tho trev it made me smile anyway.
I would be interested to know what 3rd party warranty company you could recommend and would they cover the parts that are a problem? I don't mind finding out.
Click to expand...
Haha sorry no offence meant, I'm a fixed rate mortgage kinda guy anyway :D .
I'll ask my mate when he gets in what he's using for his Saab, he's had quite a few bits go including large parts of the wiring loom and the ECU, saved a good few grand with his warranty! Think it's WarrantyDirect but not sure.
 
OK so I got it wrong, his warranty didn't cover the loom that went, but it does cover the VSA module under the ECU section - he had to argue it with them apparently but they caved quite easily.
http://www.aawarranty.co.uk/cars_mbi.htm
He has the 5 Star one which cost about £600 for 3 years. He's had about £2k in repairs from it in the last year!
 
No worries Trev and thanks for the info. It is easy as you say to get paranoid about things. I just opened the fridge to make a salad just now, and I swear I could hear the Bee Gees singing in there …


… it was just some Chive Talking.
 
Interesting debate - good reading.

My VSA module went 6 months after clutch changed, so not sure if that is linked or not.
These can sometimes be repaired, which is far cheaper option.

Warrantywise - Quinton Wilson sponsored company quoted £500 PA to cover everything including wear and tear for an Accord Tourer
 
Well.....The VSA light came on and stayed on when starting the car on Saturday morning. Gutted. I did have to break very hard to a stop the night before.
I had to go to the New Forest Saturday morning so popped into dealers who confirmed the VSA failure. They said they would give Honda UK a ring for me and let me know.
Got a call from dealer this morning (Monday) and Honda has agreed as a gesture of goodwill £435+vat for the modulator. The whole job including labour comes to £762 I know it is still a lot of money but I am so happy. It could have been so much worse. I have booked it in.

Now I know your not going to believe this but I was in on the road today North Hampshire (won't mention where just yet) and popped in to a Honda dealer to have a look around some used cars. I asked the salesman for a part exchange price (explained the VSA issue) and he asked me if I had the timing chain replaced, I said no. I nearly said I have already had it checked out and was told it was OK. Glad I kept my mouth shut.
So he got the technician to hear it running and he said it should be replaced. He said he would get the ball rolling and it would be done under warranty.
He phoned me later to ask when I wanted to bring in the car and a courtesy car will be waiting. Awesome. I have booked it in.
Great start to the week for me. It was all doom and gloom last week now it's all gravy.
 
Wow how freaky a coincidence is that!! It's like you almost willed it to fail.. but I'm glad you're getting it sorted, and of course the timing chain is a bonus.

So I guess you've just proven my theory wrong - it's not always down to someone having been under the bonnet recently... although it does seem related to any sort of severe shock.
 
F6HAD said:
Wow how freaky a coincidence is that!! It's like you almost willed it to fail.. but I'm glad you're getting it sorted, and of course the timing chain is a bonus.

So I guess you've just proven my theory wrong - it's not always down to someone having been under the bonnet recently... although it does seem related to any sort of severe shock.
Click to expand...

Thanks mate. Freaky ia an understatement. I must admit it has been playing on my mind for a while all these problems. The night before I was doing about 60 nothing else on the road and coming round a bend I had to break very hard to stop. Someone had left a mattress in the road, it was soaking wet but I moved it out the way. I was only half a mile from home. Next morning I had the VSA failure so maybe your right (or half right) to. It seems a severe shock of some sort can cause the failure. I think Honda were great and that is one reason why I would consider getting another car from them. I am well happy.
 
Well as it's the pressure sensors in the modulator that fail then I guess any shock, either externally or internally could cause the failure..
 
The most important thing and the biggest expense is getting the timing chain and injectors replaced under warranty that's a big relief.
When I had the VSA failure I asked the dealer who is carrying out the work to checked the timing chain and manifold and he said that both was OK. The dealer that is going to do my timing chain under warranty has said as far as he can see the manifild is OK.
I only have about 5 weeks left before the extended warranty on the manifold runs out and seeing how fickle dealers can be I may keep trying.
Does the manifold have to be cracked before I can get a warranty replacement or can fumes enter the cabin without a cracked manifold?
Has anyone had a manifold replaced just because there is a warranty on it?
Thanks.
 
After giving it a lot of thought I have decided to keep my 7 year old diesel Accord.

I spoke to City Honda in Basingstoke who done a very good job of my timing chain and they are going to let me have a Honda backed extended warranty of 1 year with wear and tear for £300. I read somewhere that these warranties on older Honda's were 3rd party ones sold by dealers and not so good but City Honda have told me that's not the case and is the same Honda warranty they give on approved cars.
I was also informed that after this year I could carry on buying (don't know how much) a yearly warranty from them but I would only be able to claim for up to £1,000 and I put the rest. Taking on board the advice I have been given and having had all this work done I would be mad to sell the car now.
 
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