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Tyre Rotation

Dan Robinson

Dan Robinson

Grand High Plumber
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Henlow, Beds
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06 EX Tourer i-CTDI
OK, with the imminences of MOT, A-Spec suspension and refurbs to both nearside rims I was wondering what people do with regards to tyre wear management. I know it was discussed the other forums, but I couldn't find anything here so though I would start the debate again.

Both the Honda and my tranny wear their fronts down much quicker than the rears - obvious I know!

Currently the Honda is on 3mm and the Tranny not far off. So I am wondering what to do.

I know convention says to put the newer tyres to the back, but I am not entirely convinced on that stance on the grounds that you would want more grip under braking/accelerating at the front and as long as your rears are legal and of decent quality there should be enough grip to maintain traction. Bearing in mind that there is the better part of 2 tonnes pushing down onto the front tyres under braking... the rears are going to be less reliant on tread depth and more on friction whereas the fronts will be under more compression so tread depth is more vital.

Thems are my thoughts anyway.

What you guys think?

*edit* This was a poll - dunno what happened to it... the forum lost it under posting.

1) Swap the fonts and rears and change all 4 together.

2) Change the fronts as and when and put new rubber at the rear.

3) As with 2) but put the new rubber at the rear.
 
this should open a whole tin of worms

2 things i will say towards this
1. never swap wheels diagonally as this then stresses the tyre turning it in the opposite direction and more likely give you a blow out
2. the theory is to have the better tyres at the rear as you're less likely to get a puncture as the front wheels flick things up for the rears to run over
 
Can of worms? I thought so two ;)

I thought you WERE supposed to swap diagonally... something learned there!

I would have thought the fronts would either send debris out to the side, or up round the wheel arches? I thought the theory was to reduce rear end kick under braking - which I would have thought was secondary (albeit closely secondary) to maintaining front end traction.
 
If you are low enough on tread at the rear to worry about things popping your tyre more that normal i suggest replace all 4!

But using logic I recommend new on the front as they do everything

Garages put new on the rear as a safety thing as understeer is "safer for the average driver" than oversteer
 
I have no idea what the rears are like, but oversteer is not much of a worry for me, and the missus would never be in a position to worry (she won't even drive in heavy drizzle).

Marcus I ***ume then, is following my logic - which has the benefits of spreading costs of changing the rubber over the course of a years driving.
 
I'd have thought it would be more logical to put the new tyres on the front, being a front wheel drive. But then what do I know, lol.

I've heard this discussion before, and I've heard good cases for both.
 
I truthfully never understood the logic of putting better tread on the rears..

Coincidentally I had mine swapped front to rear on Monday this week gone. I've done maybe 12k or so now on the Falkens (maybe more even) and want them to wear evenly so I can change them together.

Had them balanced up again and 3 of them were out by between 5 - 15g.. so in doing so I have perfectly balanced steering again and it feels a bit sharper with the better tread upfront.
 
By replacing old tyres with new you get a significant increase in grip. I heard that swapping the rears to the front means that the change in the cars behaviour is minimised - so less likely to catch the driver out (nanny state!). It also means that the rear tyres are replaced more regularly with new rubber so you reduce the risk of tyre failure due to degredation.

M
 
montempeaux said:
By replacing old tyres with new you get a significant increase in grip. I heard that swapping the rears to the front means that the change in the cars behaviour is minimised - so less likely to catch the driver out (nanny state!). It also means that the rear tyres are replaced more regularly with new rubber so you reduce the risk of tyre failure due to degredation.

M
Click to expand...
That's part of what I heard, tyre degredation. That and the front tyres turning over all the crud on the road ready to puncture the rears. The other argument I heard was that a loss of grip at the rear was more serious than the front. I don't believe that for a second on a FWD.
 
The thing of putting the best tires in the rear is that its much easier to control the car if the front-end looses control. If the rear looses control its much hard to control it.

Two videos showing this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gSz7cm6MwH0
 
Looks like fun :lol:.

Not sure about the lady in comfortable shoes though.

Interesting vid though, thanks.
 
When I get my tyres at Costco, they won't sell them to you unless you have them put on the rear. There's a notice from Michelin on the counter explaining the reasoning.
Can't remember the full details, but it's to do with having more grip at the rear, rather than the front so people don't get caught out.
 
i replace my tyres at 3mm, i would never run with anythin below that on the rear. I rotated my tyres a few weeks ago to even out the wear so i can replace all 4 at once. I've got about 4mm on the rear now after swapping from the front and i get mad shoogles in heavy standing water due to the -2.5 degrees of camber im runnin on the rear, so i plan to replace them early before the snow arrives in a couple of months.
 
Oops,

I just rotated mine at the weekend and followed Honda handbook advice and rotated diagonally, that's next weekend taken care off!


Can understand the logic on the stressing the tyre by rotating in opposite direction.

my biggest problem is I want to get off the Michelin and get four other tyres possibly Falkens as they seem to be getting good reviews for everything, however I have two tyres with about 6mm and two with about 3 - 4mm.

What I'm not sure off and don't particularly like the thought of is having two Falkens and two Michelin, as i would suspect this would mess up the VSA, plus I don't think it wouldn't feel right on the road.
 
I remember seeing a poster in a garage a while ago saying you shouldn't rotate your tyres at all as it increases the wear rates...

That said, I'm now running a couple of Goodyear Optigrips and Goodyear recommend that they are rotated every 6,000 miles. So it seems there is a lot of difference of opinion out there. I would personally put new tyres on the rear for all the above reasons (although I didn't this time as I was more concerned with getting rid of tramlining).

tyre degredation
Click to expand...
I just changed a michelin of the rear that had been on since 2006!

Carl, I'm sure most people will be aware of this, but just incase, never diagonally rotate directional tyres. I don't think the VSA is that sensitive, when I got my car every tyre had a different wear (from new to almost done), never had any problems.
 
nodrogs said:
I remember seeing a poster in a garage a while ago saying you shouldn't rotate your tyres at all as it increases the wear rates...

That said, I'm now running a couple of Goodyear Optigrips and Goodyear recommend that they are rotated every 6,000 miles. So it seems there is a lot of difference of opinion out there. I would personally put new tyres on the rear for all the above reasons (although I didn't this time as I was more concerned with getting rid of tramlining).

I just changed a michelin of the rear that had been on since 2006!

Carl, I'm sure most people will be aware of this, but just incase, never diagonally rotate directional tyres. I don't think the VSA is that sensitive, when I got my car every tyre had a different wear (from new to almost done), never had any problems.
Click to expand...


Good point to make about the directional tyres, I had read that in the handbook and the Michelin I have are non directional, but all the same i'm going to change them over at the weekend to a linear rotation.

In respect of the VSA were your tyres different makes and tread patterns on the front to on the back? It's just that I read somewhere that for VSA to work properly etc you should have four of the same tyres (maybe a sales pitch of course!)
 
I had on the front one new Goodyear GSD3 and a half worn GSD3. On the rear I had one nearly worn GSD3 and a nearly worn Michelin. VSA only activated once, spirited acceleration.

I now have 2 GY Optigrips on front, as new. On the rear I have the old new GSD3 (still plenty of thread) and a new "mohawk" (don't ask!). Haven't had any VSA activity yet that I'm aware of. Someone will correct me if I'm wrong but the VSA activates if the system detects wheel spin (or locking). The only way different tyres would affect the VSA is presumably having different levels of grip? I would have thought the same tyres on the same axle would have been ok. In all honesty though I do prefer to have all 4 tyres the same, its just the previous owners tyre management and a blowout thats prevented me.
 
I would have thought that VSA would work fine as long as the tyres were in pairs front and back? Which leads me onto my next question:


What if one was to have two spares set with winter/snow tyres. What would be the best place to put them - front or back?

Or would this definitely be a case of 4 tyres the same?

I would ***ume for rain alone 2 would be OK, but snow would require 4.
 
Due to the UK road system the tyres wear differently to each other.

In order of wear top being the highest

Front Left
Front Right
Rear Left
Rear Right

This is for a fwd car, So by rotating the least worn with the worst worn you can balance the tyre life. Though this is not what I do as I stated above I put new on the fronts

*To Oz, are you running low on rear tread on the insides? or you not running that much camber? If you are can i suggest flipping the tyres so have Rear left inside on the outside of the Rear right outside etc. This is what I did yday on my fronts, and works a treat, just added 50% to my tyre life. Though you have to catch it right the tyre generally needs to have reasonable amount of tread left otherwise its too late
 
Marcus, I presume this is because we have roundabouts and go clockwise?
 
:D
 
Dan Robinson said:
I would have thought that VSA would work fine as long as the tyres were in pairs front and back? Which leads me onto my next question:What if one was to have two spares set with winter/snow tyres. What would be the best place to put them - front or back?Or would this definitely be a case of 4 tyres the same?I would ***ume for rain alone 2 would be OK, but snow would require 4.
Click to expand...

I'm guessing the issue with rear wheel grip only really becomes a problem at high speeds. With snow, you shouldn't be going at these same high speeds! As a minimum you would need the snow tyres on the front, otherwise you'll be just like the rest of us and sit there spinning! You can also get "all-weather" tyres which are a sort of compromise, you could just put them on the back and leave them on all year (to save getting 2 extra alloys)?
 
Judging form the cars in that vid I would be surprised if they had ABS or certainly any VSA type abilities anyway - we have both on our 7th gens so I wonder if we would be affected in the same way?
 
Dan Robinson said:
Judging form the cars in that vid I would be surprised if they had ABS or certainly any VSA type abilities anyway - we have both on our 7th gens so I wonder if we would be affected in the same way?
Click to expand...

Does anyone recognise the cars - are they front or rear drive?

When they show the car spinning, it doesn't look like the driver has taken any action at all to control the slide (or possibly even turning so as to make it worse).

I'd also dispute their logic - in my 20 years of driving I've aquaplaned exactly once, and on that occasion the understeer nearly killed me. (If you're on a bend and fail to turn, there';s a good chance you're going into oncoming traffic). On the other hand, I've had to brake to avoid an accident a number of times, and had to take avoiding action (by accelerating or turning) a few times too. In all those cases, you want the better tyres on the front of a front wheel drive car.

If I went to a garage that insisted on putting the better tyres on the back, I'd take my custom elsewhere!
 
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