impne
Members
Mine has just started to go now, not what I need after just getting alloys and full exhaust made up over the last couple of weeks. Going in for manifold in the next week or so as well.
Just gone 50k
Just gone 50k
How long has your clutch lasted
- Thread starter vile
- Start date
impne
Members
Just searching through old clutch posts and a couple of people where looking at having clutch changed under warranty?
I've just extended mine, I didn't think a clutch would be covered?
Anyone had theirs done under warranty?
I've just extended mine, I didn't think a clutch would be covered?
Anyone had theirs done under warranty?
Im at 120k miles
0-43k miles... no idea what type of driving or whether clutch was changed
43k-115k miles - mainly spirited motorway driving
115-120k - mix of local and motorway, mix of driving style too
I've not changed the clutch since I've owned the car, and it is not re-mapped.
0-43k miles... no idea what type of driving or whether clutch was changed
43k-115k miles - mainly spirited motorway driving
115-120k - mix of local and motorway, mix of driving style too
I've not changed the clutch since I've owned the car, and it is not re-mapped.
Dan Robinson
Grand High Plumber
That was a long journey - hope you took rest breaks....
.
.Hot Fuzz
TAF Member
Mine's on 86K as far as I can tell from the service history it's the original clutch and had no problems so far. Mixture of driving both slippers and spirited h34r: I also think being sympathetic to how the car is driven and treated makes a difference, a bit like how you use your brakes if you're on your brakes all the time they'll wear quicker.
h34r: I also think being sympathetic to how the car is driven and treated makes a difference, a bit like how you use your brakes if you're on your brakes all the time they'll wear quicker.Terry124
Members
Hi guys
As explained previously my car is 56 plate CDTI with 34,000 miles, full Honda service history and clutch slipping when accelerating.
Contacted Honda dealers recommended in London and chose South Ruislip as they were the supplying dealer, were recommended and could look at the car this week.
Nice people, they have provided me with a courtesy car whilst mine was being repaired and agreed to represent early failure to Honda UK.
They stripped car today and invited me into Workshop to see the clutch.
Looks original, friction plate appeared to have no wear (7.62mm thick friction plate) have fitted new plates with less meat on them.
Pressure plate again looks standard honda supply, no blue marks or high spots and surface of plate looks excellent.
I saw what appears to be torsional springs on the outside of the clutch spring fingers, but the plate did not seem to have any means to self adjust spring tension onto friction plate.
The smaller springs around the plate appear to offer a little damping to clutch engagement rather then adjustment
Can anyone tell me how this works please?
Mechanic also advised that Dual Mass Flywheel was slightly out of spec.
He had marked the outer edge of flywheel and a single point on flywheel, there was 36mm free movement and he explained that the Honda tolerance was 35mm
That apart fly wheel was unmarked and no ridges, blue/ high spots on clutch face.
Decision pending re Honda UK decision.
Second question is does anyone know what the Dual mass fly wheel tolerance should be and if mine is at the outer tolerance edge, how big an issue is that likely to be?
Fahad your post mentions yours was checked, what was your measurement please?
Car drove fine prior to slippage, smooth engagement, no vibration or miss fires.
Would appreciate your views as no doubt a little negotiation will occur and whilst I have years of motor vehicle repair experience I am not familiar with Honda's, rumour used to be that they never go wrong?
ps fuel filter really easy to change once the gear box is removed lol
Many thanks
As explained previously my car is 56 plate CDTI with 34,000 miles, full Honda service history and clutch slipping when accelerating.
Contacted Honda dealers recommended in London and chose South Ruislip as they were the supplying dealer, were recommended and could look at the car this week.
Nice people, they have provided me with a courtesy car whilst mine was being repaired and agreed to represent early failure to Honda UK.
They stripped car today and invited me into Workshop to see the clutch.
Looks original, friction plate appeared to have no wear (7.62mm thick friction plate) have fitted new plates with less meat on them.
Pressure plate again looks standard honda supply, no blue marks or high spots and surface of plate looks excellent.
I saw what appears to be torsional springs on the outside of the clutch spring fingers, but the plate did not seem to have any means to self adjust spring tension onto friction plate.
The smaller springs around the plate appear to offer a little damping to clutch engagement rather then adjustment
Can anyone tell me how this works please?
Mechanic also advised that Dual Mass Flywheel was slightly out of spec.
He had marked the outer edge of flywheel and a single point on flywheel, there was 36mm free movement and he explained that the Honda tolerance was 35mm
That apart fly wheel was unmarked and no ridges, blue/ high spots on clutch face.
Decision pending re Honda UK decision.
Second question is does anyone know what the Dual mass fly wheel tolerance should be and if mine is at the outer tolerance edge, how big an issue is that likely to be?
Fahad your post mentions yours was checked, what was your measurement please?
Car drove fine prior to slippage, smooth engagement, no vibration or miss fires.
Would appreciate your views as no doubt a little negotiation will occur and whilst I have years of motor vehicle repair experience I am not familiar with Honda's, rumour used to be that they never go wrong?
ps fuel filter really easy to change once the gear box is removed lol
Many thanks
Terry I can't remember mine, I think it was around 16mm or 20mm or something - it was very healthy that's all I remember.
If you read my thread on the clutch install, you will see there is a small self adjuster. It sounds like you have the classic pressure plate problem. Ensure they check your cruise control pedal switch after the new clutch installed.
If you read my thread on the clutch install, you will see there is a small self adjuster. It sounds like you have the classic pressure plate problem. Ensure they check your cruise control pedal switch after the new clutch installed.
The Dual mass fly wheel tolerance should be between 3.5 - 35.0 mm i believe. If its out of that spec i think it can cause heat build up and will cause premature were of a new clutch.Guys correct me if im wrong on this.
Terry124
Members
Thanks for the updates guys.
Fahad, I am a little unclear about the clutch pedal switch as I cannot see how this would cause clutch wear. It appears that the switch is only used to disengage the cruise control if the clutch pedal is depressed, unless the switch prevents the pedal from returning to a fully released position mechanically; though if that happened one would expect the cruise control to not work?
Can appreciate that the pressure plate cover can be set up to load the friction plate during installation, ie depress plate fingers via the tool in your clutch photo's, then twist pressure plate to load torsional springs but thereafter there appears to be no relationship between the clutch pedal and self adjustment mechanism. These springs can I guess fail with age/lose tension which leads to clutch slippage.
What am I missing, was a mechanic/engineer for 20 years (albeit some time ago) hence trying to understand the technology as I am likely to debate this with Honda tomorrow
Fahad, I am a little unclear about the clutch pedal switch as I cannot see how this would cause clutch wear. It appears that the switch is only used to disengage the cruise control if the clutch pedal is depressed, unless the switch prevents the pedal from returning to a fully released position mechanically; though if that happened one would expect the cruise control to not work?
Can appreciate that the pressure plate cover can be set up to load the friction plate during installation, ie depress plate fingers via the tool in your clutch photo's, then twist pressure plate to load torsional springs but thereafter there appears to be no relationship between the clutch pedal and self adjustment mechanism. These springs can I guess fail with age/lose tension which leads to clutch slippage.
What am I missing, was a mechanic/engineer for 20 years (albeit some time ago) hence trying to understand the technology as I am likely to debate this with Honda tomorrow
The pedal switch was long thought to be a contributing factor to the ictdi clutch slippage issues. The theory backed up by TSB is that the incorrect adjustment of the switch leads to the clutch pedal resting in a very slightly depressed position much the same as someone riding the clutch.
Over the years we have been running these motors I think we have come to realise its actually a pressure plate issue.
Over the years we have been running these motors I think we have come to realise its actually a pressure plate issue.
wobbin
Members
My tourer is on 64k now, not mapped <if only...> and not used for towing by me (although it was ex lease from Lancs County Council so who knows what it's been used for ?)
Still on original clutch. I have experienced boost slip just the once whilst on holiday in August with the car fully loaded plus 5 people but that was it.
I was wondering - of you that have had a clutch replaced, how many of you have also had the 'creaking clutch' pedal syndrome as well, prior to the clutch needing replacement ? Mine had this problem but it cleared with the application of a suitable grease as per the forum how-to's.
Incorrect brake switch adjustment has been pointed to as a potential cause for premature clutch failure. I'm not sure that I really buy that unless it's grossly misadjusted, but what about if the clutch pedal cylinder is sticking - creaking is a sign of sticking after all ?
The clutch master cyclinder will have a larger internal volume (in comparison to the internal volume of the clutch slave cylinder) to allow a relatively small pressure from the pedal to operate the clutch. When the pedal is released the pressure plate will push the clutch fluid back towards the master cylinder but it can only push back with less force due to the clutch master/slave cyclinder volume situation being reversed, so could stickiness in the master cyclinder cause the clutch to be 'ridden' unwittingly ?
Could be complete tosh of course....
Oh, compliments of the season to all
Cheers
Robin
Still on original clutch. I have experienced boost slip just the once whilst on holiday in August with the car fully loaded plus 5 people but that was it.
I was wondering - of you that have had a clutch replaced, how many of you have also had the 'creaking clutch' pedal syndrome as well, prior to the clutch needing replacement ? Mine had this problem but it cleared with the application of a suitable grease as per the forum how-to's.
Incorrect brake switch adjustment has been pointed to as a potential cause for premature clutch failure. I'm not sure that I really buy that unless it's grossly misadjusted, but what about if the clutch pedal cylinder is sticking - creaking is a sign of sticking after all ?
The clutch master cyclinder will have a larger internal volume (in comparison to the internal volume of the clutch slave cylinder) to allow a relatively small pressure from the pedal to operate the clutch. When the pedal is released the pressure plate will push the clutch fluid back towards the master cylinder but it can only push back with less force due to the clutch master/slave cyclinder volume situation being reversed, so could stickiness in the master cyclinder cause the clutch to be 'ridden' unwittingly ?
Could be complete tosh of course....
Oh, compliments of the season to all
Cheers
Robin
Original clutch for me, afaik anyway ... done ~142k, ~6k on a stage 1 map ... I do a lot of foot down round town, because of the noise it makes, but has to be said that at least 75% of the miles I cover is motorways/dual carriage ways and big A roads, usually in the middle of the night with cruise control on ... no slipping yet
At 150k I'll take a clutch change rather lightly, considering a petrol would be approaching the end of it's life ... or useful, reliable life anyway ...
At 150k I'll take a clutch change rather lightly, considering a petrol would be approaching the end of it's life ... or useful, reliable life anyway ...
Jakkle
New Member
Have had my Accord from new (2005) and it's done 138k on the original clutch. Starting to feel a little judder here and there though so I guess it's on it's way out :wub:
Jakkle
New Member
It's a 2.0 petrol one chap, I have to say i'm extremely impressed with this car from a reliability perspective, apart from the general consumables i.e brake pads, tyres, the only thing that i've had go wrong is the alternator. Even then it didn't fail completley, rather the bearings started to rattle, so I had it replaced at around 90k. Never broken down on me and still drives like new. Will be getting a 2.4 one next as i'm that impressed
Jakkle
New Member
Whoops
Terry124
Members
Guys
Given my recent experiences regarding my clutch slipping, I researched the Self Adjusting Clutches (SAC) currently installed on most new cars as my experience in changing clutches predates this technology.
With engine power outputs increasing, clutches needed more spring pressure applied to the friction plate to prevent slippage, in my era this meant fitting an updated pressure plate which resulted in a very heavy clutch pedal during application.
SAC allow higher levels of applied pressure without stiffer pedal operation + have a degree of self adjustment to take up wear on the friction plate, which should lead to far longer periods before clutches need to be replaced.
This is what concerned me on my Accord as the clutch removed looked unworn, though the Self Adjusting element of the clutch was in a de adjusted position.
It made me wonder if the cause of the failure was that these clutch pressure plates self adjusting mechanism were failing in service, hence not taking up any wear which leads to slippage or perhaps that the pressure plate had not been set up correctly during installation?
The LUK clutch on the Accord is VERY similar to the clutches installed on the VW/Audi PD Engines and BMW 320 Series, these engines have a similar power output to our own and do not endure early clutch failures, thus it would appear that the clutch itself is not inherently faulty or we should see other makes failing.
Indeed even amoung our members some cars appear to cover many miles without a fault?
If the links below do not work, please Google LUK Self Adjusting Clutches (very good literature if you click the links) or Google - Set up Self Adjusting Clutches and watch the fitting instructions on "You Tube". Various other links also show Dual Mass Flywheel faults which is also interesting.
www.luk.co.uk/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1zT2mGAvT1M
Spoke to the Engineers at LUK Technical Support and they impressed upon me that setting up the SAC Pressure Plate correctly was critical.
Many of the pressure plates are pre set at the factory, however these settings can be moved in transit or during installation.
Type of issues that can occur are - lack of clearance making the clutch pedal feel very hard/heavy - clutch judder if the plates had been tightened up unevenly and early clutch failure due to slippage is the self adjusting mechanism not set up correctly.
In effect once the friction plate starts to wear the pressure plate is unable to self adjust hence slippage occurs.
Sorry no answers but hopefully the above information is helpful
rgds
Terry
Given my recent experiences regarding my clutch slipping, I researched the Self Adjusting Clutches (SAC) currently installed on most new cars as my experience in changing clutches predates this technology.
With engine power outputs increasing, clutches needed more spring pressure applied to the friction plate to prevent slippage, in my era this meant fitting an updated pressure plate which resulted in a very heavy clutch pedal during application.
SAC allow higher levels of applied pressure without stiffer pedal operation + have a degree of self adjustment to take up wear on the friction plate, which should lead to far longer periods before clutches need to be replaced.
This is what concerned me on my Accord as the clutch removed looked unworn, though the Self Adjusting element of the clutch was in a de adjusted position.
It made me wonder if the cause of the failure was that these clutch pressure plates self adjusting mechanism were failing in service, hence not taking up any wear which leads to slippage or perhaps that the pressure plate had not been set up correctly during installation?
The LUK clutch on the Accord is VERY similar to the clutches installed on the VW/Audi PD Engines and BMW 320 Series, these engines have a similar power output to our own and do not endure early clutch failures, thus it would appear that the clutch itself is not inherently faulty or we should see other makes failing.
Indeed even amoung our members some cars appear to cover many miles without a fault?
If the links below do not work, please Google LUK Self Adjusting Clutches (very good literature if you click the links) or Google - Set up Self Adjusting Clutches and watch the fitting instructions on "You Tube". Various other links also show Dual Mass Flywheel faults which is also interesting.
www.luk.co.uk/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1zT2mGAvT1M
Spoke to the Engineers at LUK Technical Support and they impressed upon me that setting up the SAC Pressure Plate correctly was critical.
Many of the pressure plates are pre set at the factory, however these settings can be moved in transit or during installation.
Type of issues that can occur are - lack of clearance making the clutch pedal feel very hard/heavy - clutch judder if the plates had been tightened up unevenly and early clutch failure due to slippage is the self adjusting mechanism not set up correctly.
In effect once the friction plate starts to wear the pressure plate is unable to self adjust hence slippage occurs.
Sorry no answers but hopefully the above information is helpful
rgds
Terry
mohammed
TAF Member
^^^lol, never mind bud but glad the petrol serving you well...
Terry that's very interesting and to my mind backs up the argument that installation of the clutch should be done by Honda who have the tools and expertise to do this right. I'm not saying every Honda dealer gets it right, as some can't even manage to fill the right level of engine oil!
If you check my thread on the clutch install from last year, you will see that my friction plate was also as new but the self adjuster was at the last setting. Bearing in mind that this was the second clutch (at least) in around 60k miles then something obviously was amiss.
Your investigation also does lend itself to the original argument/explanation presented by Honda TSB relating to incorrect adjustment of cruise pedal switch. Again if there is play in the pedal then it will have the effect of riding the clutch.
You're right, how can the same part last over 100k miles in one car but less than 30k in another. Yes a lot of it is down to driving style, but really how hard would someone have to drive to kill their clutch so easily - I would argue that those same people probably haven't killed a clutch so easily in previous cars (me included).
The only real explanation is incorrect installation of the clutch and/or related components such as the cruise pedal switch which are causing the pressure plate to adjust itself. Finally, the fact that Honda have covered some clutches under warranty, even in the third year, suggests to me that there is somewhat an admission of guilt.
Oh, and I do remember Holdcroft checking that the self adjuster on my new pressure plate was at the first setting before installation - but good tip. Never ***ume that a mechanic will check these things before installation...
If you check my thread on the clutch install from last year, you will see that my friction plate was also as new but the self adjuster was at the last setting. Bearing in mind that this was the second clutch (at least) in around 60k miles then something obviously was amiss.
Your investigation also does lend itself to the original argument/explanation presented by Honda TSB relating to incorrect adjustment of cruise pedal switch. Again if there is play in the pedal then it will have the effect of riding the clutch.
You're right, how can the same part last over 100k miles in one car but less than 30k in another. Yes a lot of it is down to driving style, but really how hard would someone have to drive to kill their clutch so easily - I would argue that those same people probably haven't killed a clutch so easily in previous cars (me included).
The only real explanation is incorrect installation of the clutch and/or related components such as the cruise pedal switch which are causing the pressure plate to adjust itself. Finally, the fact that Honda have covered some clutches under warranty, even in the third year, suggests to me that there is somewhat an admission of guilt.
Oh, and I do remember Holdcroft checking that the self adjuster on my new pressure plate was at the first setting before installation - but good tip. Never ***ume that a mechanic will check these things before installation...
jardinec
Members
95k miles, mix of urban an motorway. Developed slippage at full throttle in 3rd - 5th.
Not had it fixed yet.
Not had it fixed yet.
entwisi
Members
155K on original clutch as far as I can tell. I have a full detailed printout from the lease company owner detailing down to each bulb and no mention of a clutch anywhere on it.
I did find out from teh previous owner the car has led what is an almost idylic life, the first 130K was just trundling from London to Edinburgh twice a week. serviced on the nose with whatever it needed. from my ownership at 130K its daily workload is a 54 mile each way mainly motorway trundle. again, serviced on the nose. For a car it doesn;t get much easier. Properly warmed up every time, 5th gear, 2-2.5K revs, job done.
Mine is starting to show a little slip in 3/4th at 2.5K if I'm booting it but I reckon with gentle care i should get another 3-4K out of it before it needs doing. Only problem with that is that I want to get it mapped and I daren't till the clutch is done!
I did find out from teh previous owner the car has led what is an almost idylic life, the first 130K was just trundling from London to Edinburgh twice a week. serviced on the nose with whatever it needed. from my ownership at 130K its daily workload is a 54 mile each way mainly motorway trundle. again, serviced on the nose. For a car it doesn;t get much easier. Properly warmed up every time, 5th gear, 2-2.5K revs, job done.
Mine is starting to show a little slip in 3/4th at 2.5K if I'm booting it but I reckon with gentle care i should get another 3-4K out of it before it needs doing. Only problem with that is that I want to get it mapped and I daren't till the clutch is done!
Ian, to be honest I ran mine like that with a bit of slip for 6 months before I changed it and it would have kept going. A few of us have done that and it's caused no damage to the DMF.
entwisi
Members
Thanks for that, mate, it was playing on my mind a little as I dont fancy shelling out for a DMF. I may see if I can stretch it a bit further then! ( although I'm off to Paris in March so might chicken out before I make that journey)
Slip has been getting worse. It was under full throttle in 6th only but is now 3rd/4th/5th and 6th..
Booked into Hemel Honda at a fixed price £585
Plus a £300 service
Joy..
Mileage is 46K
They have offered to MOT both the Accord and the wife's Jazz for free which has taken some of the gut wrenching pain from the bill but still, bad month.
Booked into Hemel Honda at a fixed price £585
Plus a £300 service
Joy..
Mileage is 46K
They have offered to MOT both the Accord and the wife's Jazz for free which has taken some of the gut wrenching pain from the bill but still, bad month.
Just thought I'd update here.
Car was booked in to Honda and they called to advise that yes the clutch was gone but there was also excess play in the flywheel.
Nightmare I thought. However, the Service manager spoke directly to Honda (without my knowledge) and they have agreed to replace the clutch and flywheel FOC having been sent photos of the gearbox!
Happy days for my (today is my birthday too!) Clutch was quoted at £585 and flywheel at £900 so thats a good result for me.
They have always been a good service centre and have looked after my wife's Jazz and my previous S2000, DC2 and EP3 Type-r's all with excellent service.
Well surprised!
Len
Car was booked in to Honda and they called to advise that yes the clutch was gone but there was also excess play in the flywheel.
Nightmare I thought. However, the Service manager spoke directly to Honda (without my knowledge) and they have agreed to replace the clutch and flywheel FOC having been sent photos of the gearbox!
Happy days for my (today is my birthday too!) Clutch was quoted at £585 and flywheel at £900 so thats a good result for me.
They have always been a good service centre and have looked after my wife's Jazz and my previous S2000, DC2 and EP3 Type-r's all with excellent service.
Well surprised!
Len
