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Idle dips when in traffic

P

Paul Davis

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Messages
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Location
Western Surer Mare
Car
2004 accord cdti
Hi All, I am a new owner of a 2004 Honda Accord 2.2i CTDi Sport 5drs with about 125k on the clock. It is a nice car to drive compaired to the Mondeo that i had, really pleased with it. I do not know much about the service history from about 80k (dealer stamped). I was hoping if some of the more experianced accord owners could help me out with a small issue i have with the idle at stand still. It drops to about 500rpm and the it goes back up to about 1100 rpm and then back to normal 800rpm. The car seems to drive well with no smoke.As i do not know the service history the first few jobs that i am going to do is oil and oil filter change(Honda unit), fuel filter change (Honda unit), trasmission oil change, erg system clean and a coolant change all in good time.
My qeustion is will any of the above jobs solve the idle issue or will i need to do any other tasks / fault finding first. I have pluged in a code reader and the only fault that came up was a P1065, I have cleared the fault and it has not come back.
Thanks,
Paul
 
Welcome to the forum. I'm sure the diesel guys will be along very shortly to help you out mate.
 
P1065 is a common DTC and relates to rail fuel pressure having been lower than expected... usually crops up when the fuel filter needs replacing, but could have been stored in the ECU since before the fuel filter was previously replaced.

Maybe cleaning the EGR valve will fix the idle dropping... make sure that when you've cleaned it you also test it (Jayok made a video clip of how to do this by applying an electrical feed). If not, then I suggest that the throttle position sensor may need a clean.
 
Is it the air con / hot gas heater kicking in? Try switching the air con off and set the temp to 'Lo'. My revs dip a bit because of this, though not as pronounced as you describe.
 
Cold air does this on my petrol, have to make sure I switch air con off when cold air is on
 
Aircon kicking in
 
Turning off the aircon helped with the idle, but i had two issues when the car revs dropped to 0 rpm and stalled when coming to a stop.
Any ideas what could cause this? I have not pluged the scanner in to see if any fautls have been recorded.
Thanks,
Paul
 
Throttle position sensor but check the errors first
 
It's actually the accelerator Pedal Position sensor but people use the term interchangeably.

It's at the back of the engine behind the airbox under a black plastic cover. You will see the throttle cable going into it.

Scan the ecu for errors first to establish possible root casue
 
Hi all, just a update on the idle stall issue. I have plugged in the scanner and no faults have been recorded. The car did not stall on the way home so i can safley say the problem is intermittent. :(
If i remove the TPS and give it a clean will i have to do a reset on the postition or is it just a matter of taking it of cleaning and putting it back on with no worries. :eek:
Thanks
Paul
 
Found this on the web. Not sure if it is a US fault guide.

Engine stalls (MIL
works OK, no DTCs
set)

1. Do the ECM/PCM idle
learn procedure (see
ECM/PCM IDLE
LEARN PROCEDURE ).

2. Check the fuel pressure (see
FUEL PRESSURE
TEST ).

3. Check the idle speed (see
IDLE SPEED
INSPECTION ).

4. Troubleshoot the brake
pedal position switch signal
circuit (see BRAKE
PEDAL POSITION
SWITCH SIGNAL
CIRCUIT

Intake air leaks
Faulty harness
and sensor
connections
2007 Honda Accord
2003-07 ENGINE PERFORMANCE Fuel And Emission System - Accord
 
Not sure! And how would you measure the fuel pressure without a Honda Diagnostic System anyway? Did you find a TA guide on cleaning the APP/TP sensor?
 
Jon_G said:
Not sure! And how would you measure the fuel pressure without a Honda Diagnostic System anyway? Did you find a TA guide on cleaning the APP/TP sensor?
Click to expand...
No guide found yet, but have seen something about cleaning the plug connections and checking the cable tension for any slack.
 
Just a quick update. Run the car with aircon off today and it did not stall. Could the aircon be at fault i.e draining to much power from the engine when kicking in? If so what will the repair be?
Thanks,
Paul
 
Maybe your auxiliary belt is due a change, or a bearing is failing in the cog attached to the air con putting too much resistance to rotation and too much strain on the aux belt causing the engine to stall?
 
Car has gone back to the garage where i bought it as i have fumes in the cabin. Will let you know what they find with the idle issues. But looking at the aux belt it still the original belt i.e no mods have been done to remove the idle pulley.
 
Fumes in the cabin could well be a cracked exhaust manifold, which is a known problem.

I doubt the aux belt would cause the engine to dip/stall, whether it's the original layout or the modified shorter routing.
 
Jon_G said:
I doubt the aux belt would cause the engine to dip/stall, whether it's the original layout or the modified shorter routing.
Click to expand...
ditto

The revs on the ECU also change in idle if you move the steering wheel. Check whether there is a fault on that too.
But anyway, it sounds like there is a fault on a signal wire to the ECU that indicates that the compressor clutch has pulled in.
 
freddofrog said:
ditto

The revs on the ECU also change in idle if you move the steering wheel. Check whether there is a fault on that too.
But anyway, it sounds like there is a fault on a signal wire to the ECU that indicates that the compressor clutch has pulled in.
Click to expand...
Will the wire fault be recorded? As when i do a scan it has no faults. Lets hope the garage can sort it out as it is such a nice car to drive. They have give me a ****roen as a replacetment
 
I would think that there has to be a wire for it to know when the compressor kicks in, but it won't know if there is no "wire". If it was CANbus then maybe, but not just a single wire.
 
Hi All,
Just a quick update. Spoke to the garage today they say that it is the high pressure fuel pump at fault. When they put the car on test they found that the pressure was dropping on the fuel rail by about 20%. Honda want £1700.00 for new unit. The garage managed to get one from bosch for half the price, hope it will be okay as i know that the car is very fuel sensitve. I think it will be fine as long as the pressure is good. Any thoughts?? They also say that this could be the cause for the diesel fumes???? unburnt fuel.
 
This really doesn't sound right to me.

The fuel rail pressure varies from 200bar (min) and 1600bar (max) under normal operation anyway... so way more that 20% variation on a car that's working fine!

If the fuel rail pressure drops unexpectedly, then the ECU will flag a P1065 diagnostic trouble code, and if the system can never achieve the highest demanded pressure then the ECU will flag a P0087 DTC (google those DTCs for more info). These two codes are usually raised when the fuel filter is overly-restricted, so we know that the vehicle ECU is very sensitive to flagging these codes. You mentioned having a P1065, but also that you cleared it and it never came back.

Yes, Honda do charge a fortune for fuel pumps, but they are made by Bosch. In my direct experience, when I had a problem with the pressure delivered by the pump, then it was the solenoid regulator fitted to the pump (it's the removable part with the electrical connector next to the air filter box). These regulators can be obtained from Bosch for less than £100, but Honda do not stock them and will tell you need to buy a whole pump (you don't!).

A worn pump would cause problems when under heavy load, not when settling to idle!

Lastly, how on earth could a 20% reduction in fuel pressure lead to an increase in unburnt diesel fumes??? That makes no sense!

I strongly urge you to take the car to another garage.
 
I agree with you Jon, but the car is under warranty at this garage, so if it is not repaired it will go back to them until it is repaired. So they will have it in there best interest to get the car sorted first time as it will cost them very time the car goes back. If i am not happy with the repairs and the dont do anything about it i will ask for my money back. I just hope they do not bodge the repair.
 
Fair enough.

Let them waste their money on a new fuel pump... so long as it gets fixed you may as well get loads of unnecessary new stuff!

Fumes in the cabin is either a cracked manifold (fairly common) or can also be a leaking injector seal (less common, but reported a few times)... do make sure that this is also addressed, as either of these faults would be costly to sort out. Removing the engine top cover (4 nuts/washers) will soon reveal a leaking injector seal and the leak from a cracked manifold is usually worse when first starting from cold and can be best witnessed by looking (bonnet up, from above) between the rear of the engine and the bulkhead while someone else starts the engine whilst cold.
 
Got car back on Saturday, all seems well with the idle and has not cut out yet, they changed the solenoid for the diesel pump. Needs to go back as they failed to fix the fumes in the cabin :mellow:
 
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