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Poor Fuel Consumption on 2.4 Auto

danny35 said:
Okay, thanks Brian! Well I might as well try it now that I've ordered it and see what happens. If it detects the error code or gives me any information that solves the issues that I am experiencing it will be worth the money. I have read that it displays Lambda Sensor details which is useful, if the problem is with the injectors then I am not sure it will be of much use.
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You've been reading section 4.6 "I/M Readiness Testing" in the PDF
"I/M is an Inspection and Maintenance program legislated by the Government to meet federal clean-air standards" ....USA that is. This actually relates to the VW emissions scandal in the US.

OBD2 originates in the demand from US Federal laws to have a universal application for vehicle faults, but the I/M Readiness Test is only that, a test. It's not going to show anything other than a PASS/FAIL.
 
My car Tourer type s 2.4 around the town 30 liters pb = 154 miles
about 19-20 mpg
 
Hi all, had an annoying issue today with the car. The car has been making whining noises recently, particularly recently. It mostly happens when steering at lower speeds. Well today the problem has got worse to a point where the whining noise is louder, the steering felt heavy and the car was struggling to accelerate.It felt like it had suddenly lost a lot of it's power. I think there is a problem with the power steering pump, so does this sound right?

It is not permanent and only intermittent. After parking the car for a couple of hours and coming back,the car was running normally again until just before when the whining sound had again started.


I also received the diagnostic machine today so have plugged it in. No codes showed up which is a bit disappointing. I did get some live data which can be seen below, however am not sure that this tells me anything.

FUEL SYS 1 - CL
FUEL SYS 2 - 0
CALC LOAD - 26.6%
COOLANT TEMP - 87 Degrees
STFT B1 - 9.37%
LIFT BI - 7.03%
M.A.P - 34 KPA
SPARK ADV - BETWEEN 8 - 10 BTDC
I.A.T - 42 Degrees
 
The whining could be the auxiliary belt (aka serpentine belt) depending on what you mean by "whining", but that wouldn't cause a loss of power unless something was causing the belt to slip ....but then you should smell smoke from a belt slipping enough to cause loss of power.

Live data is better taken as a data stream and then shown as graph(s), rather than "one-offs" like that.

I've never checked the IAT (inlet air temp) on my car, so I don't know if 42 is high or not (I presume that 42 is after 10-ish miles of driving).

STFT B1 - 9.37% = Short Term Fuel Trim
LIFT BI - 7.03% = Long Term Fuel Trim (presuming it's LTFT not LIFT)

Problem with STFT and LTFT is that you need to record them and display them as graphs, along with other key performance indicators
 
On my n/a Subaru, IAT was typically 0.5 to 1 degrees above the ambient temperature.
However in heavy traffic it would heat soak to the point where I it'd run rough. Stuck on the A303 one summer it reached 69 degrees!

I'm ***uming this was taken while driving and not stationary otherwise the calculated engine load signifies a problem with one of the components used to form that calculation.
 
freddofrog said:
The whining could be the auxiliary belt (aka serpentine belt) depending on what you mean by "whining", but that wouldn't cause a loss of power unless something was causing the belt to slip ....but then you should smell smoke from a belt slipping enough to cause loss of power.

Live data is better taken as a data stream and then shown as graph(s), rather than "one-offs" like that.

I've never checked the IAT (inlet air temp) on my car, so I don't know if 42 is high or not (I presume that 42 is after 10-ish miles of driving).

STFT B1 - 9.37% = Short Term Fuel Trim
LIFT BI - 7.03% = Long Term Fuel Trim (presuming it's LTFT not LIFT)

Problem with STFT and LTFT is that you need to record them and display them as graphs, along with other key performance indicators
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The best way I can think to describe the noise is is similar to the noise of the engine that you hear when a bus drives off from stationary. It's not easy to describe :)
 
At idle, engine load should be zero, or close to it, if that's what that output is.
 
Goodluckmonkey said:
At idle, engine load should be zero, or close to it, if that's what that output is.
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The car was stationary but had been driven around beforehand. What problem would this indicate, or is it too vague to have any idea? I may check the temp again in an hour or so after the car cools down to see if it makes a difference.
 
I think I will just have to bring the mechanic with the Honda Software to scan my car again and write down all the information. I am absolutely fed up with all of this now. I have issues with the power steering pump, one of either the lambda sensors or injectors (I think), possible problems with the spark plugs/coils and a poor quality radio, oh, and I need to get the alignment sorted out as well.

Wonder if I can get all these checked and fixed for £350 (excluding alignment) by buying used/cheap parts on ebay and getting them fixed by an affordable mechanic all in one go. Probably being a bit ambitious.
 
In the eBay advert, and In section 3.3 of the PDF (link in #177) it says "record and playback". But there is no other info.
Find out if it is possible to actually record data, if not you could send it back (you can send anything back in eBay B.I.N.)

IMO you won't be able to diagnose anything without the ability to record data ....and then graph the data afterwards on something else.
 
danny35 said:
I think I will just have to bring the mechanic with the Honda Software to scan my car again and write down all the information. I am absolutely fed up with all of this now. I have issues with the power steering pump, one of either the lambda sensors or injectors (I think), possible problems with the spark plugs/coils and a poor quality radio, oh, and I need to get the alignment sorted out as well.

Wonder if I can get all these checked and fixed for £350 (excluding alignment) by buying used/cheap parts on ebay and getting them fixed by an affordable mechanic all in one go. Probably being a bit ambitious.
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If there are no codes on the device that you have bought, no-one is going to be able to help without recording data while the car is being driven. And then someone needs to interpret the data.
 
danny35 said:
The best way I can think to describe the noise is is similar to the noise of the engine that you hear when a bus drives off from stationary. It's not easy to describe :)
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record it, upload to youtube, and give us the link
 
Hopefully there's a way to do it, and then get it into a text file. If you can do that, the text file can be read into Excel to make graphs.

I forgot to say that if those fuel trims are always that low, then it indicates that the engine is always running rich, but without other data while driving, can't say why.

regarding the noise, ***uming it's not terminal, then try to record the noise too. I hope it doesn't sound like a bus, it could be something very ominous ....make sure the A/C is OFF btw
 
Unfortunately there doesn't seem to be anyway to record live data on this thing. Useless scanner I guess.

I did however find a few more measurements options, but again not sure how usefull these are. Please see below:

TPS (absolute throttle position) - 13.72%

O2SL ( oxygen sensor bank x - sensor x) 1112

O2S12 (oxygen sensor, bank 1, sensor 2) 0.740 v

SHRTFT 12 (short term fuel trim) - 5.46%
 
I'm not sure where that scanner is getting those "names" for the data, it looks to me as if it has its own internal "names" that it is ***igning to the data, based on some short-codes being sent with the data i.e. it's a generic tool, mainly for DTC's, and its abilities for display of live data might be open to interpretation on a Honda.

(as I said, you can send B.I.N. back, provided the seller can easily re-sell it)
 
Danny, where abouts in London are you?
 
freddofrog said:
I'm not sure where that scanner is getting those "names" for the data, it looks to me as if it has its own internal "names" that it is ***igning to the data, based on some short-codes being sent with the data i.e. it's a generic tool, mainly for DTC's, and its abilities for display of live data might be open to interpretation on a Honda.

(as I said, you can send B.I.N. back, provided the seller can easily re-sell it)
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So it looks like this cheap scanner is only useful to find codes as and when they appear, otherwise it is a waste of time.
 
Bit far to NW Kent where I am then.
Always welcome to bring it to me in Kent if you want to plug it into my HDS and have a look.
 
Goodluckmonkey said:
Bit far to NW Kent where I am then.
Always welcome to bring it to me in Kent if you want to plug it into my HDS and have a look.
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Thank for the offer. Where in Kent do you live?
 
danny35 said:
So it looks like this cheap scanner is only useful to find codes as and when they appear, otherwise it is a waste of time.
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I would think so (seller copied "record and playback" into his ad, but it doesn't)

Goodluckmonkey said:
Bit far to NW Kent where I am then.
Always welcome to bring it to me in Kent if you want to plug it into my HDS and have a look.
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you can listen to his "bus engine" noise too
 
Haha! Mine's the bus, with its diesel.

Danny, in in Snodland, just NW of Maidstone.
If you want to make the trek over, let me know and we can arrange a suitable time and day.
 
Goodluckmonkey said:
Haha! Mine's the bus, with its diesel.

Danny, in in Snodland, just NW of Maidstone.
If you want to make the trek over, let me know and we can arrange a suitable time and day.
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Thanks Matt! Can I ask you if the HDS measures the Spark Plugs & Coils as well?
 
The Chinese ones do, they come with a tiny man who jumps into the engine and looks at it all for you :lol:

Basically, no, HDS is an OBD tool that gets data from the ECU (and also DTC's if there are any).

Difference between HDS and generic OBD tools is that the HDS software "dovetails" properly to the data stream from the ECU, and, it will also read DTC's from all electronic units in the car (if there are any DTC's).
 
Lol, I thought maybe they could check the current of the spark plugs or something like that...
 
;)

As far as the petrol engine goes, it merely does the same as that OBD scanner does, except it runs on a laptop, and it "knows" what the elements in the data stream are. As such, the data needs to be interpreted in conjunction with physical examination of items.
 
What Freddofrog said.

It'll tell you what's what in the same way an OBD2 reader will. It just has the capability of looking beyond the ECU at the rest of the systems in the car too.
 
So I think I have now at least confirmed one thing that needs to be changed. As previously mentioned a few posts ago, I keep intermittently get a whining noise, particularly when steering left or right. Well I checked the fluid reservoir today after driving with the engine on and the power steering fluid was brownish with lots of air bubbles visible. This pretty much confirms what I already knew that something is wrong with the pump. The fluid doesn't seem to be leaking though and is still on the max line.

Would the Pump need to be replaced or could it be a bad connection allowing air into the reservoir?
 
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