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f2raf said:
Very sad jokes
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LOL... I think you got off lightly. I was going to ask if you also washed your clothes without taking them off, but thought you might be a bit sensitive after the nightmare job you did yesterday!

But whatever, it's done now and I hope it stays working for you.
 
Those aren't rivets or set screws, they are called shear-bolts.
You fit them and tighten down the fastener and the head shears off leaving a dome which is meant to discourage tampering.
http://www.securityfastenersandfixings.co.uk/Info/shear-bolts-19.aspx
The only way to remove them is to use the method described with a hacksaw to make a slot for a screwdriver or to drill the head off.
You can buy a spurious sensor on its own from ebay item # 332165149597
 
Bounder said:
Those aren't rivets or set screws, they are called shear-bolts.
You fit them and tighten down the fastener and the head shears off leaving a dome which is meant to discourage tampering.
http://www.securityfastenersandfixings.co.uk/Info/shear-bolts-19.aspx
The only way to remove them is to use the method described with a hacksaw to make a slot for a screwdriver or to drill the head off.
You can buy a spurious sensor on its own from ebay item # 332165149597
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Whatever the head is, a "bolt" that screws into a tapped thread, is called a set-screw --> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Set_screw

A bolt has a nut on the other end --> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Screw#Differentiation_between_bolt_and_screw

So strictly speaking, a shear-bolt that doesn't have a nut on the other end should be called a shear-screw.

But note that the APP senor on the Civic uses Torx head set-screws to secure it, so using a shear-screw on the Accord seems a tad perverse in comparison. I'll have to look at them on my car .....one day.
 
Jon_G said:
Meh, sometimes bashing things about shifts dirt or vibrates a contact point into making a better connection.
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Could've just used the Irish screwdriver then
 
Bounder said:
The only way to remove them is to use the method described with a hacksaw to make a slot for a screwdriver or to drill the head off.
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A Dremel (or similar) model grinding disk is a bit less cumbersome.


Neurosurgeons would have a suitable tool in their arsenal

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KVpnogBTeoA
 
Channel Hopper said:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KVpnogBTeoA
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LOL but that looks fake to me, he's wearing the wig that he wears when he does his transvestite gig
 
Please stop giving advice to spray switch cleaner into this sensor, because there is NOWHERE that it can be sprayed into and I dont want other people with the same problem thinking there is some kind of quick fix. . The sensor is factory sealed. It can be sprayed on the male plug connectors, but to do that, you dont need to remove any bolts, you can just unplug and spray it on the prongs, but the solution wont really find its way inside the sensor. The only way to do that would be drill a hole in the side of the sensor and feed it in, again for that the sensor or whole thing does not need to be removed. Have a go at your own peril and be careful of the advice you receive.
 
f2raf said:
Please stop giving advice to spray switch cleaner into this sensor, because there is NOWHERE that it can be sprayed into and I dont want other people with the same problem thinking there is some kind of quick fix. . The sensor is factory sealed. It can be sprayed on the male plug connectors, but to do that, you dont need to remove any bolts, you can just unplug and spray it on the prongs, but the solution wont really find its way inside the sensor. The only way to do that would be drill a hole in the side of the sensor and feed it in, again for that the sensor or whole thing does not need to be removed. Have a go at your own peril and be careful of the advice you receive.
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Imran, you're wrong, switch cleaner CAN be used on this.

I thought I'd take a look at the APP on my car. I've taken it out to look.

If you wish to attempt to clean the APP on a 2.2 diesel or 2.4 petrol, this is what to do.

1. make sure you have switch cleaner with a straw/nozzle
2. remove the 6-pin plug from the sensor
3. undo the two 10mm bolts (they screw into/out of captive nuts) that hold the plastic cover, and remove the cover
4. undo the nut that holds the accel cable in place, and then remove the accel cable (similar to removing a cable from a push-bike lever)
5. undo the two 10mm bolts (they screw into/out of captive nuts) that hold the bracket onto the car, and remove the bracket with the APP ***embly attached
6. carefully remove the captive tie-wrap that holds the wiring cable in place
7. take the APP ***embly to a bench then either [a] remove the set-screws on the sensor by cutting slots in them, remove the sensor, turn it on its side, and liberally spray switch cleaner onto the side of the part that rotates while rotating it back and forth (see pic 7a) or leave the sensor in place, drill a small hole in the centre (see pic 7b) and then spray through the hole with it upside down, then when it has dried, put tape over the hole

7a - turn this on its side and spray liberally onto the side of the part that rotates while rotating it back and forth (fluid will work its way inside as the part rotates back and forth)

s-l1600.jpg




7b -drill a hole as per the picture (no need to pull it open) , hole just big enough to get the straw/nozzle in

214205103.jpg


7b - as per pic below (but will be on the ***embly and now have a small hole in centre), turn upside down, spray in though hole while rotating the mechanism back and forth

s-l1600.jpg





edit: do not drill a hole in the side of the sensor or you may damage the wiper(s)
 
The method is not fool proof, its impossible to drill a hole through the top without damaging the blue electric tape inside, because you cant see where to drill the hole. The picture you just posted, I have seen on the internet before, it clearly shows that the top plastic part has been cut all the way around and the hole is drilled rather from the inside. The throttle cable and black plastic cover dont need to be removed, providing you place a towel on the base of block, to protect the air filter cover from being scratched. In fact I did libererally spray a fluid down the center spring section and guess what! nothing happened, it stayed in there and did not work its way down, infact I had to pour it back out, so there is no possible way the fluid makes its way through that section. If you want to post a picture of your sensor, I expect to see your smiley face against it as i doubt that the picture posted is of your sensor. I hope anybody with the same issue, does NOT attempt any of this, as it is fruitless.


freddofrog said:
Imran, you're wrong, switch cleaner CAN be used on this.

I thought I'd take a look at the APP on my car. I've taken it out to look.

If you wish to attempt to clean the APP on a 2.2 diesel or 2.4 petrol, this is what to do.

1. make sure you have switch cleaner with a straw/nozzle
2. remove the 6-pin plug from the sensor
3. undo the two 10mm bolts (they screw into/out of captive nuts) that hold the plastic cover, and remove the cover
4. undo the nut that holds the accel cable in place, and then remove the accel cable (similar to removing a cable from a push-bike lever)
5. undo the two 10mm bolts (they screw into/out of captive nuts) that hold the bracket onto the car, and remove the bracket with the APP ***embly attached
6. carefully remove the captive tie-wrap that holds the wiring cable in place
7. take the APP ***embly to a bench then either [a] remove the set-screws on the sensor by cutting slots in them, remove the sensor, turn it on its side, and liberally spray switch cleaner onto the side of the part that rotates while rotating it back and forth (see pic 7a) or leave the sensor in place, drill a small hole in the centre (see pic 7b) and then spray through the hole with it upside down, then when it has dried, put tape over the hole

7a - turn this on its side and spray liberally onto the side of the part that rotates while rotating it back and forth (fluid will work its way inside as the part rotates back and forth)

s-l1600.jpg




7b -drill a hole as per the picture (no need to pull it open) , hole just big enough to get the straw/nozzle in

214205103.jpg


7b - as per pic below (but will be on the ***embly and now have a small hole in centre), turn upside down, spray in though hole while rotating the mechanism back and forth

s-l1600.jpg





edit: do not drill a hole in the side of the sensor or you may damage the wiper(s)

Click to expand...
 
Jon_G said:
LOL... I think you got off lightly. I was going to ask if you also washed your clothes without taking them off, but thought you might be a bit sensitive after the nightmare job you did yesterday!

but you cared enough make the comment anyway... not appreciated
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f2raf said:
LOL... I think you got off lightly. I was going to ask if you also washed your clothes without taking them off, but thought you might be a bit sensitive after the nightmare job you did yesterday!

but you cared enough make the comment anyway... not appreciated
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Stop moaning, it's becoming embarrassing (and thanks for cutting off the part of my post where I wished you well with the repair).

Just because you failed to repair your APP sensor does not mean that a more experienced and more sensible DIY mechanic couldn't... I can't imagine why you attempted to repair it without actually undoing the two bolts and removing it!
 
Nobody here is moaning or trying to be a stand up comedian. You only worry about not embarrassing yourself and don't worry about others. As I said before and say again this part is not repairable in the manner claimed here.
 
f2raf said:
Nobody here is moaning or trying to be a stand up comedian. You only worry about not embarrassing yourself and don't worry about others. As I said before and say again this part is not repairable in the manner claimed here.
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I stand by all the advice I have given in this thread without embarrassment.

All I've learnt here is that YOU could not repair your APP sensor with it still bolted to the bulkhead. Personally I have never attempted to repair an APP sensor, nevertheless I suspect it should be possible to drill a small hole somewhere to allow a cleaning aerosol to be deployed.

But genuine congratulations for trying... at least now you can shell out for a replacement safe in the knowledge that you did at least try to fix the original one. Good luck in finding a cheap secondhand sensor!
 
Jon_G said:
All I've learnt here is that YOU could not repair your APP sensor with it still bolted to the bulkhead.
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?? All 4 x 10mm bolts were removed, it was never bolted to the bulk head. This part is not a repairable part. Any attempt to do so remains fruitless. Despite the relentless effort being made to convince me otherwise there is Not a shred of evidence to support this from any member on here so far who has actually removed it cleaned it and fixed it. None what so ever.
 
f2raf said:
?? All 4 x 10mm bolts were removed, it was never bolted to the bulk head. This part is not a repairable part. Any attempt to do so remains fruitless. Despite the relentless effort being made to convince me otherwise there is Not a shred of evidence to support this from any member on here so far who has actually removed it cleaned it and fixed it. None what so ever.
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Unfortunately you are again still missing my point about how to remove it... repairable or not, the whole APP sensor ***embly and bracket is held to the bulkhead with 2 conventional bolts (and of course the throttle cable needs disconnecting)... I've looked at mine and also studied the Honda service manual to confirm this. I suggest that you would have found it far, far easier to have removed the complete bracket and APP sensor ***embly and then started to disassemble the tamper-proof screws, etc, on a workbench in an attempt to get in some switch cleaner (which it turns out you couldn't). At least then you wouldn't have wasted so much time working awkwardly and causing damage to your air filter cover, which is a shame.
 
f2raf said:
The method is not fool proof, its impossible to drill a hole through the top without damaging the blue electric tape inside, because you cant see where to drill the hole. The picture you just posted, I have seen on the internet before, it clearly shows that the top plastic part has been cut all the way around and the hole is drilled rather from the inside. The throttle cable and black plastic cover dont need to be removed, providing you place a towel on the base of block, to protect the air filter cover from being scratched. In fact I did libererally spray a fluid down the center spring section and guess what! nothing happened, it stayed in there and did not work its way down, infact I had to pour it back out, so there is no possible way the fluid makes its way through that section. If you want to post a picture of your sensor, I expect to see your smiley face against it as i doubt that the picture posted is of your sensor. I hope anybody with the same issue, does NOT attempt any of this, as it is fruitless.
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There is no blue electric tape inside, those copper tracks are on a solid blue PCB. If you've seen that picture before then you will have found out who posted it and how he and others fixed the APP sensor .

You probably did get fluid down into the tracks, but you need to keep it in there for a while and rotate the mechanism back and forth. And yes I did remove the ***embly from my car, I don't need to prove it to you, I did it to be sure that your DIY is cack-handed.

f2raf said:
?? All 4 x 10mm bolts were removed, it was never bolted to the bulk head. This part is not a repairable part. Any attempt to do so remains fruitless. Despite the relentless effort being made to convince me otherwise there is Not a shred of evidence to support this from any member on here so far who has actually removed it cleaned it and fixed it. None what so ever.
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Why would we make this up ?

Why would we waste our time typing out information to you to try to help you ?

Why would I go to the trouble of removing the one from my own car to check how simple it all is ?

I am a Chartered Electronics Engineer, I started off as a hobbyist on valve radios and TV's over 40 years ago, and I have a Bachelors and a Masters in Electronics. Up until 20 years ago I worked in various industries as an Electronics Design Engineer (including automotive test beds), after which I moved into Mobile Phone Networks as a Radio Planning Engineer.

I don't appreciate someone calling me a liar, or implying that I am complicit in some gang giving out bad advice.

You now have several choices, listed in descending order of cost

1. take your car to a dealer to get the work done
2. take your car to an independent to get the work done
3. buy a new APP ***embly and fit it yourself
4. buy a new sensor from that link on ebay.com (which was not originally provided by me)
5. buy a 2nd hand ***embly from a breakers (but you don't know how long it will be before that starts to throw APP codes)
6. continue to put switch cleaner into the one that you have
7. leave it alone and continue to use the cruise control when driving

The choice is yours, but if the APP starts throwing codes on the CM2 in my possession, I certainly would not bother with the first 5 or the last 1 in that list.
 
Since I actually went to the trouble to take mine apart I'm going to agree to disagree and rest my case here, it's a pointless pursuit.
 
f2raf said:
Since I actually went to the trouble to take mine apart I'm going to agree to disagree and rest my case here, it's a pointless pursuit.
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Since I removed the ***embly from my car, I can say that it's not difficult to do.
However, since my car is not showing APP DTC's I cannot prove whether switch cleaner will work or not.
But, since there are people on the internet who have solved the issue using switch cleaner on the Honda APP, it satisfies me that it is an easy task to cure an issue related to tracks inside the Honda APP.
 
The app sensor can be cleaned if you are not happy with help on here then don't complain we spend our free time unpaid to help other members put some of you new members have no idea how involved this is freddo is an respected member of the forum and is very reliable with his information. If you are not happy with our help then drive to honda dealers and be prepared to be charged well for diagnostic and replacement of complete ***embly, obviously for ripping you off they will give you one year warranty as they replace whole ***embly, good luck you will need and if you decide to use this forum fix up your attitude as it's not appropriate or welcome here.

Sent from my C6603 using Tapatalk
 
That's a bit harsh Saj, at least he made the effort, which is more than many do. Also, if he chooses to do so, he now has the DIY knowledge to replace the entire ***embly with the one that Don101 presently has (and no longer requires). He could then take the actual sensor apart that he already removed, or PM me and I'll pay for postage so I can do so. But IMO he'd be wasting money getting the one from Don101.
 
I'm not sure what all the fuss is about, (Saj) you possibly haven't read through the entire thread and most likely shooting from the hip. My attitude is, was and remains perfectly fine, of course I didn't appreciate constant mickey taking at my expense particularly when I followed guidance here and went through the effort to remove and clean the sensor and discovered actually the method initially suggested of dousing the sensor does not clean the PCB internally. I stand by that as I removed it again, doused it over night and there was no infiltration. I then used a 1.5mm drill bit and made two holes in safe areas at opposite ends and the fluid now flows through and comes out other side. I since doused it and refitted it. On initial start it gave same error codes but since deleting they have not come back and I have yet to go on a long run. My point was always that without opening it the cleaning process for me anyway was fruitless. I have always appreciated the help here and likewise contributed. If you did your homework Im not entirely new here but neither am I a self professed expert. However if you are a moderater and you feel typeaccord.co.uk will be a cheerful happy place without me then go ahead and terminate my membership, I'd hate to think this was giving you sleepless nights. Finally to add, the seriousness of this fault code is that the engine shuts down when driving on the highway. So some newbie thinks he can clean it by dousing it, goes for a run on the highway, engine shuts down because the dousing didn't penetrate the PCB and potentially be subjected to accident and open serious injury or worse. I know it's a worse case scenario, but possible. I don't really want to comment again here but since it getting like the wild west..
 
I'm very glad that you've fixed it, Imran. It might be useful for others in the future if you could explain exactly where you drilled these holes?

And TypeAccord would not be a better place without you!
 
Hi f2raf

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