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CTDi Hybrid Turbo Install

great thread, shame you have some problem but it seems you'll get it sorted soon :)
are you still running pipercros air filter? some memebers had issues with them which gone after going back to oem so maybe it's worth to do it, just added my few pences :)
good luck
 
Thanks Grzesiek!

No - the PC filter was removed very quickly after I had it on - I shouldn't have oiled it, basically.

Other than that it seems to behaving itself - certainly feels like the power's there, but I'm wary of the placebo effect!

I've got a HDS system on the way and have re-built an old laptop with XP to run it, which should allow me to datalog correctly - DashCommand is too laggy and I can't see what it's telling the VNT actuator to do, which is the final thing to check before I look at the EVR valve (not too suspicious of that though). I've also ordered a vacuum fed boost gauge, which should allow me to monitor it constantly to see what's happening.
 
quick question about the cluch, is it workinf with dmf or you changed for smf?
 
F6HAD said:
Does this turbo run off the original vacuum actuator for the vnt? Are the vanes completely different inside this hybrid unit?
Click to expand...
Experiencing similar problems with mine as well.
The actuator is reused and set on the flow bench to Honda specs. (5.6). However the vanes of the compressor
wheel are different. A Japanese made one 'high flow' rated 25% more efficient.
 
Trevor79 said:
Experiencing similar problems with mine as well.
The actuator is reused and set on the flow bench to Honda specs. (5.6). However the vanes of the compressor
wheel are different. A Japanese made one 'high flow' rated 25% more efficient.
Click to expand...
Have the XP laptop, just need the HDS I've ordered to arrive and I can see what's going on. Out of interest, where did you have to adjust your actuator to on yours Trevor, or have you not done it yet? As it's the same compressor wheel, it should be the same on mine, which should eliminate some of the 'test and adjust' that may be needed...
 
Actuator hasn't been adjust yet. Like you am going through the hardware to locate any issues.
So far found a poorly functioning MAF (replaced) - improvement, MAP replaced, no improvement.
Checked for air & vacuum leaks, everything OK.
N75 turbo valve faulty, swapped over with the EGR one, good improvement. Ordered a replacement for that.
one. (2nd hand)
Used the DASH Cmd but like you gives poor response times on Boost PSI. Waiting for a vacuum gauge to
arrive to get a accurate picture.
Suspect I'm not getting the 24 psi that the ECU is asking for. Running the EGR delete custom Stage 2 with
more fulling. No issues with it not getting enough fuel, and not smoking either.
No point making further mapping adjustments until the engine is running to spec.
Soon now I hope!
 
Thanks for update Trevor, I suspect turbo issue too. Hope mike solves it
 
F6HAD said:
Thanks for update Trevor, I suspect turbo issue too. Hope mike solves it
Click to expand...
Call me impatient or what! Been sitting on a Hybrid V1a map for a couple of weeks now, decided to put it
on and give it a try.
A step up from the V1 map, turbo boost comes on strong from 2,000 rpm, part throttle as well.
Don't think there is anything amiss with the turbo, it just needs feeding the right info to respond to.
Should be getting next week the vacuum gauge and N75 valve. Then we can data log and see where
we are.
 
Just replaced the second EVR valve, another gain in doing so.

Success! Traction control is lighting up, car has never felt so quick. (almost, but not quite)
Everything is sorted now, took a while but got there.
icon_biggrin.gif
 
Had a chat with Dave (Elite) we don't think it needs any more mapping.
He is buried under so much work, never seen him so busy.
 
How you getting on Mike, everything sorted now?

Will get round to fitting Boost gauge over the W/End.
Mine feels that it's running spot on now.
 
Still issues Trevor, although the replacement of both EVR valves has made a difference, as before I think tired EVRs were throwing additional issues into the mix! A recent dyno put it at 191 bhp, so they have made a difference, although I'd have sworn it felt like a lot more than that!!

Long story short, I think the actuator's not set correctly, as the issues have now resolved to point pretty much straight at that as being the cause (low boost until high revs and several low boost warning lights between 2.5K-3.5K revs).

The install of a boost gauge today has confirmed this, pretty much. Boost is all over the place initially (15-18 psi), but as engine speed rises it'll hit 22-24 psi consistently. I believe, after discussions with Celtic, that this is just sheer engine speed overcoming the incorrectly set VNT vanes, with the ECU trying (badly) to get things to where they should be before then.

I'm away a lot with work just now, but am now focusing on getting my HDS up and running and getting some proper logged runs to monitor the VNT duty cycle. Once I have that I can tweak the actuator to the correct length and that should sort it.
 
I think you've nailed the problem. Would be good to see a fix..
 
Effing tell me about it Faddy!!! :D

I feel that this is it though - the turbo has shown It can consistently hit 22-24 psi, now I've replaced the EVRs (which is probably why my stage 2 power was down a little bit, although I was happy!!). Now that that's been done, everything points at the actuator. Having just had a quick play with my spare stock turbo, it should be pretty easy to adjust while still on the car, albeit working blind, so I'll just have to do lots of little adjustments to avoid over-cooking it.

I'm away again this week, so probably won't get on it until next weekend.
 
Take lots of pics. I'm not aware of anyone with this setup who has it happily working yet. If you solve it I think you will be the first and probably end up carving out a little niche business for yourself ;)
 
Bu**er that! It's given me enough scars and a bad back just swapping the turbo over on the drive! Next time it's going on a pit! (I will try and get pics, but I suspect the Turbo's location will preclude much of that - we'll see!)

I think Trevor can claim to be the first though, from his last few posts ;)
 
Michael said:
Bu**er that! It's given me enough scars and a bad back just swapping the turbo over on the drive! Next time it's going on a pit! (I will try and get pics, but I suspect the Turbo's location will preclude much of that - we'll see!)

I think Trevor can claim to be the first though, from his last few posts ;)ave
Click to expand...
I think so, will have to have another run on Elite's rolling road to confirm though.
 
Update:

I've had real issues getting HDS to work, so until I get that cracked I had a play with the actuator and a cut down, bent 10mm spanner. Had to use mini mole-grips to turn the actuator's adjusting knob once I'd loosened off the nut, but once I'd worked that out it was quite easy to tweak in-situ. The results prove just how key the actuator is - the power and performance changes dramatically depending on which way you go. I went on repeated test drives, adjusting up or down as I went, and ended up with something that felt better, but still not there. Once I get HDS figured, I should be able to be a lot more empirical about it. A (proper) boost gauge has made a big difference though - I'd say it's impossible to perform any adjustments without one!

Moving on from that, one of the lads on the Civinfo site (ABigSavage1) very kindly offered to have a dig into my current map. All I can say is.... hmmmm! He found several areas where significant improvements could be made, as Celtic had basically left the fuelling at the stock levels, which explains a lot of the lack of power. They did say they'd eased the map back a bit until my fuel pump issue was sorted, but not to that degree! Explains why I could never get more than Stage 1 'ish levels of power!

Since tweaking that, it's made a massive difference! There’s a lot more power, or it certainly feels that way on the butt dyno! It boosts much more consistently and definitely shifts more! I tried to get a dyno run in on Sat, but nowhere had a slot – will get to it next week as soon as I can. but I'm confident there's a big change and, TBH, I'm now pretty happy with it the way it is - although I'll still keep plugging at it to see what can be done still, as the actuator issue is still there, slightly, but once HDS is sorted I should be able to dig into that more effectively.

The only problem experienced since then wasn't map related. After the full-fat map went on it’s died twice with P0087 (Low Fuel Rail Pressure) and P1065 (Low Fuel Pressure) codes. I reset the codes and all was well, but it definitely seems to struggle when demand is high – I thought changing the fuel pump would solve this – obviously not!

I'm now planning on replacing the Over-Pressure Relief Valve, as an injector leak-back test (using common household materials :D ):



produced only about 40ml total from all 4 injectors - well within spec:



The only remaining thing that could be causing these issues, realistically, is the Over Pressure Relief Valve. When I did a leak-back test on that:



there was some fuel in the container. I suspect it's a bit tired (after 165K miles that's not surprising) and the additional demands placed on the system by my current setup is exposing it a bit. I've ordered a new one from Amazon, as Honda only stock the complete HP fuel rail (at £2K ish they can whistle) so hopefully it’ll be a simple fix. If not, then I’ll make sure it’s not the fuel filter being blocked, or something similarly daft.

So! Progress, but not there yet. The direction is right though...
 
Pleased to see you are making good progress. If your map wasn't adjusted for more fuelling not surprised you were down on power. Have found
the injectors / fuelling maps able to supply more than enough fuel required.
Nice to hear Alan has managed to help with your mapping, top man!
 
Excellent progress Michael and hats off to you for persevering.

Those errors are most likely the filter and possibly the pressure relief valve as you've already identified. You really shouldn't have to mess with the actuator to make this setup work, that was the job of the turbo manufacturer...

You're so close now I can taste your victory
 
My own actuator settings haven't been messed with, they are as set by The Turbo Clinic. The issues I have found have all been sensor related.
Running spot on now and getting excellent MPG on long runs. Gone onto using Shell or Esso diesel which has noticeably increased by 3 miles per gallon.
 
What type of sensor issues?
 
Both EVR valves. Air flow sensor on intake pipe, and air pressure sensor on throttle body. Renewed them all in troubleshooting stages.
 
And they weren't exhibiting any problems on the original turbo?
 
F6HAD said:
And they weren't exhibiting any problems on the original turbo?

Hard to say as the turbo wasn't in the best of condition. Maybe it was the sensors/valves that was giving the drop in performance?
Click to expand...
 
Trevor79 said:
And they weren't exhibiting any problems on the original turbo?
Click to expand...
Hard to say as the turbo wasn't in the best of condition. Maybe it was the sensors/valves that was giving the drop in performance?
Click to expand...
I think that's partly my issue too - certainly with the EVRs - MAF and MAP were pretty new, but the prime culprit so far has been the unchanged fuelling map!
 
I think it's worth noting that with a car that's a few years old everything is not in 'as new condition'
With a Hybrid turbo besides the obvious map needed to run it, the ECU and vacuum sensors, fuel rail, injectors all need to all be in spec.
What has become clear is one cars issues can be different to another one. It's not all plain sailing but credit to everyone we all soldier on
to achieve the result!
And what a result it is. Talk about a Q car! :)
 
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