CTDi Hybrid Turbo Install
- Thread starter Mike_Mac
- Start date
Hi Sam, thanks for the comments and sorry for the late reply - work been a bit hectic!makkan00 said:
I got my suspension from Holdcroft Honda, the site's affiliated Dealer - not sure if they can still get them though - they were very pessimistic about mine turning up, but worth a try!
Fitted the Boost Gauge last week and booked it in for a Rolling Road session with my friends at Elite.
Was hoping for some decent outputs, but it wasn't to be. From 3600 boost was hitting 30 Absolute psi and staying there! Thank GOD the fuelling maps wouldn't supply the fuel to run at those pressures, something would have gone bang! Only making 181 bhp as well which is much less than was the OEM turbo outputs on previous maps.
Dave then had put on Stage 1 egr delete mapto trouble shoot. Well down on power, only 126 bhp / 308 NM. Confirmed it wasn't a mapping issue at work.
Went and booked it in at Turbo Clinic yesterday for them to check / adjust actuator settings etc. Meanwhile had dug out info on Turbo Creep, also looked at Garretts flow charts.
They found that the vacuum pressure was @ -5 psi measured off the disconnected solenoid, it should be -5.2 to FULLY CLOSE THE VARIABLE VANES. Swapped over the EGR one that was measuring -7 and that again was only doing -5 on the actuator side!
That explains the engine being down on power and the turbo over spinning.
Now we know the solenoid is capable of producing the vacuum asked of it, so it must be down to the electrical signals being sent to it.
Oh, Paul did lengthen the Actuator to 5.5, tried 5.9 first but engine ran flat. Will run it and see if it makes any improvement, jury out on this one.
Was hoping for some decent outputs, but it wasn't to be. From 3600 boost was hitting 30 Absolute psi and staying there! Thank GOD the fuelling maps wouldn't supply the fuel to run at those pressures, something would have gone bang! Only making 181 bhp as well which is much less than was the OEM turbo outputs on previous maps.
Dave then had put on Stage 1 egr delete mapto trouble shoot. Well down on power, only 126 bhp / 308 NM. Confirmed it wasn't a mapping issue at work.
Went and booked it in at Turbo Clinic yesterday for them to check / adjust actuator settings etc. Meanwhile had dug out info on Turbo Creep, also looked at Garretts flow charts.
They found that the vacuum pressure was @ -5 psi measured off the disconnected solenoid, it should be -5.2 to FULLY CLOSE THE VARIABLE VANES. Swapped over the EGR one that was measuring -7 and that again was only doing -5 on the actuator side!
That explains the engine being down on power and the turbo over spinning.
Now we know the solenoid is capable of producing the vacuum asked of it, so it must be down to the electrical signals being sent to it.
Oh, Paul did lengthen the Actuator to 5.5, tried 5.9 first but engine ran flat. Will run it and see if it makes any improvement, jury out on this one.
Happy New Year to you all! 
Not much to update really.
From the last RR sessions in Nov the cars fulling maps on full throttle could be set higher. Part throttle settings are spot on in power,
the cars response is excellent. Turbo pressures taken from the inlet manifold side are still indicating 28 psi max so am happy leaving
the quest for full throttle power on hold for the time being.
Toying with having TerraClean carried out on the engine before making further mapping adjustments. Will wait for the Spring I think.
Not much to update really.
From the last RR sessions in Nov the cars fulling maps on full throttle could be set higher. Part throttle settings are spot on in power,
the cars response is excellent. Turbo pressures taken from the inlet manifold side are still indicating 28 psi max so am happy leaving
the quest for full throttle power on hold for the time being.
Toying with having TerraClean carried out on the engine before making further mapping adjustments. Will wait for the Spring I think.
Dixon
Members
Hi. I read your all topic and is really nice and big performance of you car. I am interested about your clutch in car. Can you send me web side link where you buy clutch?? How is work is still good??? Thanks
Nothing much really, car is running well. Recently started using Shell Diesel all the time and have noticed much improved performance and better MPG. Engine bedded in now, boost control sorted, the car just flies.
Going to be selling my beloved CR-V soon, coming up to 11 years old and better than it has ever been. Someone is going to get a peach of a car. The longest I have ever owned a car.
Waiting on delivery of a new Audi Q3 S Line Plus, (remap to 205 bhp from Elite) doubt it will be quite as quick but looking forward to it!
Going to be selling my beloved CR-V soon, coming up to 11 years old and better than it has ever been. Someone is going to get a peach of a car. The longest I have ever owned a car.
Waiting on delivery of a new Audi Q3 S Line Plus, (remap to 205 bhp from Elite) doubt it will be quite as quick but looking forward to it!
To be honest, not really. I started having issues with the Twin Plate Clutch just after I last posted - basically it was becoming impossible to change gear, so I re-installed the original 325 Clutch, which kind of stopped any more Stage 3 work, where I was having issues with fuelling, with the car dying because of lack of fuel rail pressure.
Therefore, I reverted to my Stage 2 EGR off map, which it's been on since then and I've not had time to do anything beyond that, as my other car needed a lot of tinkering and I was focused on that for quite a while, plus there's been a lot of personal stuff going on (wife ill), so it wasn't the time to start ripping my daily driver apart!
I doubt I'll be pushing this much more now. The car's done 182K miles and, while it's not showing any signs of age, I'm still doing 20-30K a year, so it won't be long before I start looking for something else (have been fighting the 'itch' for a while now...). I may have one last go at mapping it via Celtic, just to see what they can do with it, now that I know the stock fuelling system is good, but I suspect that they will encounter the same issue beyond 200 hp, where it just seems to keep on boosting...
Thing is - it works fine with the S2 map, so possibly there's a safe intermediate level it can go to - the problem is I don't know enough about mapping and it comes down to money, which I don't really have after the other car sucked it all up this year!
To add to that, just now I've got an ABS/VSA/'!' set of lights on, which the dealer thinks is rear ABS sensors rather than the ABS/VSA module, so that's the main focus just now.
The annoying thing is the car is still in excellent order otherwise - the A4 I've got as a courtesy car while it's being MOT tested is on the same mileage and is an absolute dog!
Therefore, I reverted to my Stage 2 EGR off map, which it's been on since then and I've not had time to do anything beyond that, as my other car needed a lot of tinkering and I was focused on that for quite a while, plus there's been a lot of personal stuff going on (wife ill), so it wasn't the time to start ripping my daily driver apart!
I doubt I'll be pushing this much more now. The car's done 182K miles and, while it's not showing any signs of age, I'm still doing 20-30K a year, so it won't be long before I start looking for something else (have been fighting the 'itch' for a while now...). I may have one last go at mapping it via Celtic, just to see what they can do with it, now that I know the stock fuelling system is good, but I suspect that they will encounter the same issue beyond 200 hp, where it just seems to keep on boosting...
Thing is - it works fine with the S2 map, so possibly there's a safe intermediate level it can go to - the problem is I don't know enough about mapping and it comes down to money, which I don't really have after the other car sucked it all up this year!
To add to that, just now I've got an ABS/VSA/'!' set of lights on, which the dealer thinks is rear ABS sensors rather than the ABS/VSA module, so that's the main focus just now.
The annoying thing is the car is still in excellent order otherwise - the A4 I've got as a courtesy car while it's being MOT tested is on the same mileage and is an absolute dog!
Not sure Trev - just got progressively harder to engage gears - kept on meaning to get back to the Coy, but, with one thing and another, just haven't got 'round to it!
Might be a fault with the Clutch, might be the G-Box, might have been incorrect installation, don't know!
Might be a fault with the Clutch, might be the G-Box, might have been incorrect installation, don't know!
Goodluckmonkey
TA Friends
So what does the torque curve look like on these hybrid-turbo'd CDTI's?
Do they just have more over-rev, or do they pull harder everywhere?
Would love to see some numbers and a dyno print out, because in this thread I can only see max boost pressures listed, which doesn't mean anything in the real world.
My tractor with standard turbo makes 1.5bar peak, but it's irrelevant as it just can't hang on to it till the redline.
Do they just have more over-rev, or do they pull harder everywhere?
Would love to see some numbers and a dyno print out, because in this thread I can only see max boost pressures listed, which doesn't mean anything in the real world.
My tractor with standard turbo makes 1.5bar peak, but it's irrelevant as it just can't hang on to it till the redline.
Thanks Faddy!F6HAD said:
Just realised I forgot to put my last Dyno plot on here - I'll get it put up in a bit, but basically, compared to a normal S1/S2 map there's a bit more lag initially, then it takes off, with much more under the graph in the latter half of the rev range.Goodluckmonkey said:
Goodluckmonkey
TA Friends
Cool. Sounds interesting.
As with these things it's always a case of robbing Peter to pay Paul, do you find its still a good daily and can be driven economically?
As with these things it's always a case of robbing Peter to pay Paul, do you find its still a good daily and can be driven economically?
Absolutely fine! When I had the Twin Plate in and working it was fine, if a bit heavy for others to use, but I quickly got used to it (until it really started making changes difficult). In terms of driving it was great - loads of power, but delivered in quite a linear manner and high enough in the rev range that you didn't inadvertently 'go'.Goodluckmonkey said:
As I was saying earlier - see below the various Dyno plots I made up to see what was going on. I've included my stock Dyno from many years back, along with a Celtic S3 Dyno from their website (which I don't quite believe!). Set alongside that are my three Dynos with the hybrid: 185 is when it was throttled back to pretty much S2 levels, 191 is when Allan was playing with the fuelling a bit and 199 is the best I could get with it. notice that the Stock initially outperforms the Hybrid, but as soon as the latter comes on boost it takes off!
Notice also, though, the massive spike in both power and torque that causes (particularly visible on the 199 Torque line). My belief is that the turbo is boosting way too much, the fuelling system can't keep up and then staggers - which explains the rapid fall off, low fuel pressure warning and the engine dies. At that point I'm seeing potentially over 30 psi on the boost Gauge!
As the image isn't too clear:
Light Blue: Stock
Orange: Celtic S3
Grey: Hybrid (185 Bhp)
Yellow: Hybrid (191 Bhp)
Dark Blue: Hybrid (199 Bhp)
This chat has made me keen to have another go at seeing if anyone can get it to work. My first priority, though is to make sure my VNT Actuator is correctly set. When I was first having issues, I played around with it and am not sure it's back exactly where it should be. If it isn't then the vanes may not be controlling boost correctly at higher load - hence the spike.
True - problem is, as ever, finding someone down here who knows what they're doing with aftermarket stuff! Plus when I took the clutch off I didn't feel inclined to investigate it further. It was kind of a 'sod it - had enough' moment!Trevor79 said:
(Someone's looking at it now...)
Goodluckmonkey
TA Friends
Must feel really strong when it comes in, given the rate of change on that curve.
As you say, could be a lean condition generating that spike, or a delay with the vnt causing overboost till it catches back up with itself.
As you say, could be a lean condition generating that spike, or a delay with the vnt causing overboost till it catches back up with itself.
True, what I really want to do is speak with whoever the bloke was who had the Civic used for the Stage 3 map shown on Celtic's website! That seemed to be a good output (even allowing for a slightly 'optimistic' Dyno').F6HAD said:
Just stuck the 'best' S3 map on (call it nostalgia!) - it certainly does! Big difference to the S2. 325 Clutch seems to be coping with it too (although I will keep it toned down.).Goodluckmonkey said:
I'll be digging into getting the VNT set correctly this coming week - problem is Turbo Clinic is 4 hours away!! I'll see what I can dig up. I'm also planning to give Celtic a call. All the work since they retarded the fuelling due to my MAF issue has been away from them. Might be worth a trip up there to see what they can get out of it - especially as I don't have working HDS!
ETA - I've also just realised that Turbo Clinic and CG Motorsports are only about 10 minutes away from each other. A trip to Leeds may be on the cards, but I don't know where I'll find the time.
To be continued...
brodziu
Members
I'm just too lazy to read whole tread, but are you still on standard IC, I'm sure that FMIC will help with going over 200bhp
brodziu
Members
silly me :blush:
brodziu
Members
when I had mine mapped I've been told that even bigger FMIC than I have now will help more. Mapper has managed to get 212bhp but there was smoke after 4k rpm so it stayed at 204bhp. Bigger FMIC would require more cuts in the bumper which I wanted to avoid.
My understanding is that if you go too big relative to the engine you can actually reduce the efficiency of the IC relative to what the turbo actually can make use of.brodziu said:
The general rule I was working to was 3-litres of IC core volume per 100 bhp. I had done a lot of reading on this previously, but haven't kept the links. might be wrong - I'm not an engineer, but this like has a lot more info here: http://bellintercoolers.com/tech-support/faq/
(see 'What factors affect efficiency of an Air-to-Air Intercooler?').