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Is FHSH important?

neilrosser

neilrosser

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Reading
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CL9 2.4 i-VTEC Exec
I've had my CL9 for 10 years now. I'm the 2nd owner, the 1st being Honda themselves. I bought it with 9k on the clock and It's now only got 40k. The only stamps in the book are the PDI one and two services at 7386 miles & 17699 miles, I've done my own servicing but not always every 12 months on the dot, the longest gap being 19 months. I do have a Halfords service receipt for 2012 @ 36443 miles, but not any other receipts (except the droplinks one, see my 1st MOT Fail thread) so ofcourse can't really prove regular filter/oil changes etc. but I know it's been done.
The reason I ask is that I'm now...as you could imagine... bored with car. I don't know whether to sell it or give it a complete overhaul with coilovers, 18" or 19" alloys, window tints and maybe even a complete respray, to make it look like a different car. At the moment the only additions are a rear spoiler and the Xcarlink.
Have I really dropped a clanger by not getting FHSH or atleast keeping all the receipts.
What would you pay for a car with such low mileage but little or no FHSH???

Looking forward (I think) to your comments.
 
If it was FHSH, you'd be able to ask for more money. But there's not much market for the 2.4 at the moment. Although a new member just signed up looking for one ;)
 
In answer to the question, No.
 
Indeed. Sorry, just re-read your first post. Low mileage and no service history would sound alarms for a clocked motor.
 
Steve... From what's written, I'm pretty sure this car isn't clocked, and the OP should hopefully be able to prove that it wasn't (MoT history, maybe?).

FHSH (or even FSH) wouldn't really influence me. But I might try to use the lack of it as a bargaining point.
 
Wow :blink:....Clocked motor!! that was the last thing I expected to be mentioned. Didn't realise you could alter digital clocks, anyway the mileage is recorded on the MOTs. (I have all of them)
 
Clocking is easier to achieve by simply swapping the instruments over with some that show the mileage you want.

This isn't a crime, unless you then try to pass off the new mileage as genuine. Won't even cause a problem at the next MoT.
 
I think there's are different situations, such as FHSH, FSH, some history, and no history. I think it depends on the buyer because personally speaking if the car had a full history it wouldn't bother me if it was Honda, non-Honda, or as you often find, a combination of the two. But if there was missing or no history then unless I knew the seller I wouldn't buy it. I know you can forge history but that's a different issue.

Having said that I don't think a garage would be get over-excited about missing history if you were trading it in, although they might push you down a little bit on the part-ex trade-in price.
 
FHSH is nice to see when you are buying a car, but on a car that is now over 10 years old I wouldn't be too bothered. Lots of receipts would again be just as good in my eyes, but if the condition of the car and the MoT history (which you can now check online too) confirms the low mileage then I'm sure someone would be just as happy to buy it. Your sale price might me a bit lower than an identical car with full history but you will have made some savings over the years by not taking it to Honda to offset that.

I would be happy with low number of owners, low mileage and an MoT history to back it up. You might be suprised how many cars have false histories with stamped up books but no receipts to back them up.

I recently looked at a Focus on Ebay which when I checked the MoT history online showed that it had lost about 70k miles at some point in its life.
 
Personally speaking when buying any car i would be more inclined to buy a car with FHSH over one with just FSH. FSH can be manipulated quite alot where as a Main dealer stamp is more genuine and less chances of manipulation. I mean some sellers get there mates to stamp a book and there is very little in the way of confirming it is genuine.

When i see a main dealer stamp before even buying the car I ring the dealer who serviced it and check the dates, work and the mileage to confirm it is what it says. With a main dealer you have that reassurance that the parts needed were fitted where as a independent garage source parts from where they like, usually cheapest place, and sometimes don't even change things.

My car has a 3/4 MDSH and 1/4 under my reign which I did myself using genuine parts from Honda dealer. See with the age of my car its at that age where its border line on whether a MDSH will increase its resale by a big margin. However my Accord is very much a family pool car now so won't be going anywhere very soon.

Now as Steve mentioned the market for the 2.4 is small and the re sale on there cars is low, if your thinking you will loose a few k on when selling then you are way off. I would think its worth less than 3.5k even with that mileage. Also with the gaps in SH there is no way to determine if it is 40k. The MOT's are the only really guide on this.

These days its very difficult to determine if the miles on a car is genuine, clocking is a common occurrence especially now they are electronic.

So to summaries, cars with FMDSH are generally better in the sense that genuine parts have been used, with FSH sky's the limit of what has and hasn't been changed and with what quality. For me i know my car has had main dealer parts from day one but my book is not fully stamped. I do have receipts from the dealer when I bought the parts but some buyers that's not enough. Cars depreciate and Honda's are the worse for it as they all wear the same so choice is endless.

The price of the car is only what the buyer is willing to pay for it so could be quids in or could be a loss.
 
Jon_G said:
Steve... From what's written, I'm pretty sure this car isn't clocked, and the OP should hopefully be able to prove that it wasn't (MoT history, maybe?).

FHSH (or even FSH) wouldn't really influence me. But I might try to use the lack of it as a bargaining point.
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I never suggested that the OP has a clocked motor. I'm simply saying that if I was browsing for a car and there was a 2.4 Accord with under 40K on the clock and no service history at all, I'd walk away. I'd be very suspicious that it's been clocked or written off and put back on the road or there was simply something untoward being hidden by the lack of paperwork.

Perhaps I've known too many people who've been bitten in the backside buying like this, but I wouldn't even bother to find out why the car had no service history. Knowledge is power (and peace of mind) and I'd rather have a car that's had issues that have been properly remedied than buy an unknown entity. It's too big a gamble and I know even service history can be manipulated, the world's far from perfect, but when you buy a car you ***ess the car, the history, the seller and make a decision based on all three factors. But you've got to get to that stage in the first instance. With zero service history, I'd not even get to meet the car or seller in person. Unless of course it was an established member here who I knew took great care of his motor with DIY servicing and at least had threads about it and receipts for fluids filters and parts.

My advice anyway would be that the CL9 market is on its backside. Even with a full service history, you ain't going to get what you and I believe the car to be worth. Lower it, fit an after market stainless steel exhaust, maybe a cold air intake, fit a short shifter and sportier gear knob. The car will feel totally different. Trust me, I've done all of this and I love the car more than ever.
 
FHSH all the way for me if i had the choice. a DIY service history even with receipts doesnt mean that the job has been done well or even correct. it also to me shows that its basically just had new oil and filters and never really had a good look over by a mechanic. how do you know that the DIY seller is competent? even motor factor garages like Halfords, F1, kwik fit etc etc arent a great stamp to have. i was getting my oil changed this weekend at a F1 center as a mate runs it. i used castrol edge 0-30w which i supplied myself and they had a CRV and Civic ctdi both in for a service and they werent getting the recommended oil viscosity..... i questioned it and they said that on their computer the oil is right so thats whats going in!!!! it was a cheap crap branded oil that i wouldnt let anywhere near my car let alone be put in the engine.... look at all the issues with the Accord ctdi when people dont use a genuine fuel filter...... say no more. my Accord ctdi has FHSH and this was a good factor of me buying the car even though it had 10K more miles on than others that had bad history. this weekend was the first oil change and service that wasnt done at Honda but as my car is now almost 10 years old i dont think paying £170 to the MD's basically for an oil and filter change is really worth it. I have fitted the air filter, pollen filter myself and took the car down for the oil change as it was done for free, i just had to pay for the oil. with my car the FHSH may help sell it but with it having done 142k and being 10 years old i doubt it will sell for much more than one without FHSH as they are pretty cheap these days anyway.
 
i keep all my receipts showing all the parts i have bought and i usually take a picture of the oil, and oil filter next to my jacked up car everytime i do an oil change :) you cant disprove photographic evidence along with matching receipts ;) The next owner will probably be looking for a well looked after used car, which my wad of paper work and printed out photos backs this up to be. And no, its not just oil receipts that I have lol, any parts such as drop links, tie rod ends, brake pad/disks, gearbox oil, coolant, brake fluid, different filters and on those same receipts will be things such as copper grease, sealants, brake cleaner etc. But then again, my car is like 10 years old and is not going to retain much more value even if it did have FHSH. To be honest, FHSH is nice for a quick overview to ensure its regularly been serviced, but it can be looked after just aswell by a DIY mechanic (i have read multiple stories of Honda dealers recommending different grades of oil and some even putting 10w40 in a 7th gen accord!). Just depends on how confident and knowledgeable you are when it comes to looking at paperwork, asking the owner questions and putting 2 and 2 together :). Why worry anyway, Honda's (DOHC VTEC engines anyway) are bullet proof! haha :p
 
Stevearcade said:
Indeed. Sorry, just re-read your first post. Low mileage and no service history would sound alarms for a clocked motor.
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Surely an Mot history check would show this not to be true.
 
I sold my 03 plate k24 about 5 years ago with 92 k on the clock , so you can imagine my suprise when i saw the very same car on auto trader a year later with 76k miles on it , clocking does happen and guess its up to the buyer to check ,
I emailed the seller pretending to be interested and he was very quick to ' disappear ' when i said i was a former keeper
 
I dont understand those who are unable to check MOT certificates. Its easy, you make sure there is one which starts 3 years after the car was 'born' and there should be one for each year after. If any details change between the certs then work out why. The mileage should go up on every cert. If there are certs missing then there is a chance the car has been clocked, but you run the risk if you decide to purchase the car. I mean even for a 10 year old car its only 7 certs which you need to look through, that only takes minutes. Not only that but you can now also check the info matches on the online database on the gov.uk MOT website, if so then all would appear to be legit. Obviously there could be a chance that it might not be, they might have gone to a dodgy backstreet MOT garage who could have made the mileage up, anything is possible right? The car might have been crashed and undeclared to insurance and repaired at a backstreet garage on the cheap (if declared this may have been a write off etc).

One good thing to help peace of mind is there is some form of AA/RAC check where you pay a fee for a qualified mechanic to come check the car over before you buy it, to confirm all looks legit, the mileage is compared with their databases, they check and inform you of any issues and i think also guarantee that the info they provide is correct. This is around £200 i believe, my friend had is buyer perform one of these checks on his Type-R when he sold it. I think this is the best option for those who are concerned, and neilrosser, I would recommend you tell your buyer to carry out this check if you decide to sell just to prove its authenticity. But as you have the CL9, i would go against selling and drop it on coilovers, you dont necessarily need bigger wheels but deffo grippy tyres, install an induction kit, (custom exhaust if your budget allows it) and your car will not only look cool, but will handle great (i hope! I have a set of coilies but yet to get round to fitting them) and the added performance boosts and noise will bring back that enjoyment. Good luck with whatever option you choose! At the end of the day, what would you replace it with anyway? unless its another Honda, you will only be regretting it lol :p
 
FHSH means very little to me, as does FSH. It just means that the previous owners dutifully turned up at a Honda garage at the requisite mileages, and Honda changed the oil for them. You have no guarantee that the particular grease monkey checked all the stuff he was supposed to check.

When buying a car, I speak to the owner. It's very easy to figure out how much he actually knows about his car. If he's clueless, I tend to leave it.

Personally, I like to do as much as I can to my cars myself - that way I know whether the job has been done properly, I know what type of oil has been put in the engine, and I know that bolts are correctly tightened. (I also know what's held together with cable ties and so on ... ;) ).

Only if something really needs the car to go up on ramps do I take it to a garage, and then it'll be somewhere I know I can trust to do a proper job - not just by the book. I write all this stuff into the service record in the handbook.

Then, when I come to sell the car I can speak to potential buyers about it and describe exactly what's been done to it, and what might be the next thing to keep an eye on. For me, this beats a stamped service book hands down.

(Plus Honda would probably have a right good laugh if I took my Prelude in for a service now ... about to hit 150K and hasn't seen the inside of a dealer workshop for over 15 years.)
 
johnny 5 said:
i keep all my receipts showing all the parts i have bought and i usually take a picture of the oil, and oil filter next to my jacked up car everytime i do an oil change :) you cant disprove photographic evidence along with matching receipts ;)
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I STRONGLY agree with the photo's and the matching receipts for the parts.
Topman.
I guess photo's supported by a video would be even better, as some people will argue that photo's (photoshop) can be doctored :p

Do you have any of your photo's on here?
 
thedooor said:
I STRONGLY agree with the photo's and the matching receipts for the parts.
Topman.
I guess photo's supported by a video would be even better, as some people will argue that photo's (photoshop) can be doctored :p

Do you have any of your photo's on here?
Click to expand...
Haha, based on what you mentioned regarding 'photoshop' images, i dont think it would be wise for me to share my photos lol :p In theory, you could just jack up your car and take different angled shots with different empty oil cans and claim you changed the oil etc, but yea receipts to back up the photos are essential. Either way, it depends on the buyer knowing what to look for too, for example if there is a bunch of receipts and the car is actually a dog and clearly hasnt been treated to all the parts mentioned, then the 'fake' receipts are useless anyway!
 
johnny 5 said:
:p In theory, you could just jack up your car and take different angled shots with different empty oil cans and claim you changed the oil etc,
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Lol -
I think this is where it's important for the photos to show the old & new oil filters.
The oil pouring out the bottom of the oil sump and into the container.

I do my own oil and filter changes, but have never bothered to take photo's - so it would be difficult for me to prove to a buyer that I have done them.
But I have often thought about how I could prove this. Photo's accompanied by receipts, and a video of oil pouring out of the sump would be cast iron proof. :)

Naturally, a car that looks tatty probably hasn't been serviced properly.

I know someone who never serviced his car, and only when he HAD to sell it that he thought about servicing it, because he thought it would be easier to sell.........lol
 
Photos and videos to prove an oil change? I'm not sure how you'd prove that isn't someone else's car with your number plates fitted, but don't forget to hold up todays newspaper to 'prove' the date!
 
As a seller, it depends on the age of your car as to how important full dealer main history is. As cars age there comes a point where there's not much difference in value between a car with naff all service history and one with full main dealer. It's going to vary from individual car to individual car but it will get to a point where a main dealer service is going to cost more than the value it retains on the sale price of your car :lol:

And as a buyer it's the same as ever, 'buyer beware'. Full main dealer history would is great, but you use your discretion and depending on how much you're spending on the car you can take a view on cars that don't have it.
 
even dealer stamps can be faked, I checked so many cars history when I was buying mind, one looked great, low miles, fsh ect but when checked it had no history after its first service. Kept clear of that one.

The one I brought had a full engine rebuild 20k ago by Honda (cost them 10K!) I had receipts and checked with the dealer that did the work and Honda UK and because of that I brought the car.
 
Service history certainly is important IMHO, particularly if you are not that savvy when it comes to motor mechanics. It does not ensure you will get a problem free car, it could still be a lemon, but at least you know it's been maintained properly, mitigating the risks.

I have just very recently purchased an Accord with a questionable service history, as of today I will be looking for new drive shafts...
 
To be fair though, driveshafts aren't part of a dealer service. If they're going to go they're going to go, irrelevant of if the car is serviced or not.
 
BORED with a HONDA??? like Dr johnson said If your bored with London then you are bored with life. Get a new pair of rose tinted glasses, and take it for a drive now and again, from the sound of it you should have Never been used record.
 
Josh2109 said:
To be fair though, driveshafts aren't part of a dealer service. If they're going to go they're going to go, irrelevant of if the car is serviced or not.
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I don't profess to knowing that much about it, but I would have thought cv boots would be inspected during a routine service...?
 
Yasmin said:
I don't profess to knowing that much about it, but I would have thought cv boots would be inspected during a routine service...?
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gaiters (aka boots) which cover the cv joint, are inspected as part of MOT anyway, plus, cv joint is not part of the driveshaft (rear wheel drive cars also have driveshafts, but no cv joint on rear wheel drive)

vibrations due to the driveshaft itself tend to be if they go out of balance for some reason, or, issues with the splines at the inner end (inner end is also covered by a gaiter, also inspected as part of MOT).

But it's not possible on an MOT or service to tell if a driveshaft is vibrating, because that requires the car to be driven on the road
 
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