vaynah
Members
How would a re-flashed 2.4 do against Euro R?
Littlebo/UKCL9 CL9/CM2 - K24 Reflash/Remap Test ECU
- Thread starter Stevearcade
- Start date
I'm completely guessing here, but I imagine in a straight line, it wouldn't be too far behind, but as soon as you hit a corner the Euro-R would spank it 
.
The Euro-R would I think still have slightly higher power output (I can't remember the specs exactly, but it's a fairly aggressively tuned 2.0L K series). But add to that weight reduction, different gear ratios, a different steering ***embly, stiffer suspension and a limited slip differential, the Euro R is its own animal.
But the Euro-R is a JDM car and if you want one, it's very expensive to buy as they have to be imported. So a reflashed K24 like an Exec or a Type S with a few supporting mods whilst it wouldn't be a direct competitor, it would still make a lovely drive. Mine's lowered, got a custom exhaust and the all round sensory experience of handling, noise and engine performance is a lot of fun, even for a big old tourer with 88K on the clock.
.The Euro-R would I think still have slightly higher power output (I can't remember the specs exactly, but it's a fairly aggressively tuned 2.0L K series). But add to that weight reduction, different gear ratios, a different steering ***embly, stiffer suspension and a limited slip differential, the Euro R is its own animal.
But the Euro-R is a JDM car and if you want one, it's very expensive to buy as they have to be imported. So a reflashed K24 like an Exec or a Type S with a few supporting mods whilst it wouldn't be a direct competitor, it would still make a lovely drive. Mine's lowered, got a custom exhaust and the all round sensory experience of handling, noise and engine performance is a lot of fun, even for a big old tourer with 88K on the clock.
i think straight line the reflshed cl9 would win..reflashed cl9 will be similiar power and have a lot more torque.dont forget the stock cl9 is only 0.5 seconds slower 0-60mph
on track the add extra bit would make the euro r quicker in the corners
but for road use i dont think you would notice the difference.you would notice the longer gear ratio's in the cl9...but you can easly change them.and you would notice the lack of torque in the euro r if you drove them back to back
also cl9 have better steering ***embly as its hydrolic.more road feel
euro r 1380kg
cl9 1400kg
we need to find a euro r vs reflashed cl9 and make a video.lol
on track the add extra bit would make the euro r quicker in the corners
but for road use i dont think you would notice the difference.you would notice the longer gear ratio's in the cl9...but you can easly change them.and you would notice the lack of torque in the euro r if you drove them back to back
also cl9 have better steering ***embly as its hydrolic.more road feel
euro r 1380kg
cl9 1400kg
we need to find a euro r vs reflashed cl9 and make a video.lol
vaynah
Members
Euro R 0-60 7.1 sec - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=buF8JbsxeMw
Reflashed with weapon r header 6.8 sec - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q1t2BHtn3EE
Reflashed with weapon r header 6.8 sec - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q1t2BHtn3EE
Reflashed CL9 is faster than euro-R, difference isnt that big because of trannies.. I asked my friends to make some vids when they will make their weekend starts. If we speak about racing experience then euro-R has better cornering abilities. Ugh, i said almost same as you mentioned before.. Saby, you have someone with euro so you can try to make few pulls to see how it looks like. And theres a reflash for Euro available also , which makes avg 2 bodies over stock tune.
Yes I know someone but getting hold of him is going to be an issue because of the weekend now as he uses the car for Taxi purposes (yes i know) and also it's LPG converted (YES I KNOW) so I don't really know how that will affect performance.
My cousin is due up North today though and he has mapped S3 (2001 model) pushing 240bhp. Would be nice to see how I go up against a turbo.
Will try and get some vids of that on.
My cousin is due up North today though and he has mapped S3 (2001 model) pushing 240bhp. Would be nice to see how I go up against a turbo.
Will try and get some vids of that on.
Just remember about huge 1-2 gear dip, try to make 2-4 gear pulls if possible , rolling 2nd gear pull at 4-5k rpms is what will bring you a victory ) And try to run as fast as possible, CL9 has awesome aerodynamics and can overtake much more powerful cars at high speeds.
hey guys, what BHP increase do you think this has (not overestimated, i mean realistic)? I want them to be low because my insurance company will let me increase BHP up to 200bhp for FREE before insurance falls into a higher bracket lol, but in all honesty, i would not expect anything near 20bhp increase from this remap. I have 13bhp to play around with. i am very tempted...thanks!
Hey Johny.
Max top end power increase i saw on official dynos is 10-12 hp for bone stock car. Middle bump is around 30. If they are looking only for engine max output then you are golden with CL9 190 paper hp + 10 hp bump on top.
They are really always dyno your car when they sign your insurance papers ? LOL =)
Max top end power increase i saw on official dynos is 10-12 hp for bone stock car. Middle bump is around 30. If they are looking only for engine max output then you are golden with CL9 190 paper hp + 10 hp bump on top.
They are really always dyno your car when they sign your insurance papers ? LOL =)
godzilla84
Members
Is this only available on the 2.4 or would it be feasible on a 2.0 auto as well?
godzilla84
Members
Definitely interested in having this done then. Next on my list after getting my alloys refurbed.ukcl9 said:
Having sat through about an hour of reading these conversations I would like to have my say.
I previously had a CL7 2.0 accord for 4 years but then it was unfortunately written off in 2012.
I then bought a year 2000 civic mb6 VTi-S. I bought in 2012, it was then 12 years old and but I still spent money on Meister R suspension, brakes, recaro seats etc etc as the car was mint condition and had mostly HSH. But the one thing I did look into and buy was a remap. I had to buy a P28 ecu and then got a 'live' remap costing £300. It went from 170bhp (with mods) to 185bhp (same mods). Had the two stage vtec changed to one stage (5000rpm). The difference is noticeable to drive, smoother and just a pleasant experience.
My point is; the money for a remap won't get you mega bhp gains (esp on my 1.8 b18 engine). But it is up to the owner if they see the remap/reflash worth it. In my case, it WAS worth it.
If the k24 pulls better and can have the vtec kick in earlier on this reflash, then that can only be a good thing (and worth the money IMO).
Out of interest, can you lower the vtec point further?
The reason I ask is I shall have my civic for one more year then buy a 2.4 executive accord
I previously had a CL7 2.0 accord for 4 years but then it was unfortunately written off in 2012.
I then bought a year 2000 civic mb6 VTi-S. I bought in 2012, it was then 12 years old and but I still spent money on Meister R suspension, brakes, recaro seats etc etc as the car was mint condition and had mostly HSH. But the one thing I did look into and buy was a remap. I had to buy a P28 ecu and then got a 'live' remap costing £300. It went from 170bhp (with mods) to 185bhp (same mods). Had the two stage vtec changed to one stage (5000rpm). The difference is noticeable to drive, smoother and just a pleasant experience.
My point is; the money for a remap won't get you mega bhp gains (esp on my 1.8 b18 engine). But it is up to the owner if they see the remap/reflash worth it. In my case, it WAS worth it.
If the k24 pulls better and can have the vtec kick in earlier on this reflash, then that can only be a good thing (and worth the money IMO).
Out of interest, can you lower the vtec point further?
The reason I ask is I shall have my civic for one more year then buy a 2.4 executive accord
freddofrog
won 16.4k on Euro lottery :)
If you buy an 8th gen, you get a better version of the K24 anyway, better cams, better stock map, CANbus making it easier to remapBurbleboy said:The reason I ask is I shall have my civic for one more year then buy a 2.4 executive accord
The whole point of the discussions was that several years ago when the 7th gen was fresher, there was no-one out there with a solution for remapping the K24 in the 7th gen. Now that there is a solution, doesn't mean that the 7th gen is the car to buy IMO. If I didn't already have a 7th gen and I wanted an Accord with a K24, knowng what I know I'd look for an 8th gen
Mr CL7
Members
May do this later in the year when finances allow.ukcl9 said:
What will the gains be on a 2.0 7th gen on a 54 plate?ukcl9 said:
Superman001
Members
Im also interested to know what can be done to the K20A6? I know they only have variable valve timing on the intake and not on the exhaust side but if another 10-15bhp and better drivability can be achieved through a remap that would be awesome.TypeR said:
From the engineering POV k24z is refreshed and at the same time cheapassed version of k24a. It has weaker crank, weaker rods and sleeves, it has cast-in-da-head manifold which makes this engine cheaper to produce, more emissions friendly and also restricts air flow ( impossible to upgrade and tune in NA form ) Boosted it starts to fall apart at around 270-280hp while k24a hold up to 450. Every third engine has problems with oil consumption ( resleeve needed ) , VTC gears, cams and so on. This clearly represents the drop in material quality and durability. Stock engine calibration is the same dull crap as CL has. CU always slower than CL and feels more heavy. To sum up, CL is the last real (powerful, fun to drive and built for ages) Honda sedan we know, that was the product Honda became famous with and beloved by millions. Then mass market started to appear. Some minor flaws can be solved on CL like intake manifold overheating , narrow TB and some others but you cant eliminate fundamental cheapass flaws of newer engines. Every dood who tried CL with CU side by side can notice that it was a step to comfort at the cost of fun performance and driveability, CL is for young hot chaps like me, CU is for mature ( 50+ yrs ) persons like freddo. Overall, its a good car compared to competitors but its a step back in many (engineering and quality ) aspects Honda set previously.freddofrog said:
So, Ali , my advice is to try them both on your own and decide what you prefer and what you like more. CU looks more modern and european, CL is more sharp, more aggressive, more JDM. IMHO =)
Back on topic. I recently reflashed some CL7 03-05 guys over EU, Croatia, Spain. Their feedbacks been like - i feel torque bump across the revs, car pulls better, same torque available 1-1.5k earlier, no need to change gear so often driving uphill, same performance with AC on as with AC off before reflash, better pedal responce and some fuel economy like +25-40km for the tank of gas.
I saw 9-10 hp bump low to mid range during initial testing. No gains above 6k , 1-2hp max, this engine is not a top revs performer, all its power is concentrated at 2-5.5k rpms and youll see the gains there. I finished all the firmwares i was able to get and they cover all EU 03-08 CL7 models i know. So if you want to have some fun just PM ukcl9, he has everything to make you smile.
dynacord
Members
One more reflashed CM2 - mine
I met with Dinu in Bucharest for a reflash of my CM2. There's a noticeable difference, especially after 3000rpm, the throttle pedal also feels much more responsive, I mean you don't need to push it so hard to maintain the current speed on an uphill or downshift to a lower gear, for example. The rpms increase far more easily now. Basically, there's not much increase in the max whp of the engine, but the torque is more distributed throughout the whole RPM range. And the earlier engagement of the VTEC, of course is very very nice, there isn't that much of a "vtec kick in yo" effect like in the earlier B engines, the transition is very smooth and the car pulls strong without hesitation up to the limiter.
Here is a before/after dyno graph:
The graphs shows output on the wheels without any corrections. The dyno is also a very sensitive one. I have a graph with petrol/LPG comparison as well, if someone's interested
I met with Dinu in Bucharest for a reflash of my CM2. There's a noticeable difference, especially after 3000rpm, the throttle pedal also feels much more responsive, I mean you don't need to push it so hard to maintain the current speed on an uphill or downshift to a lower gear, for example. The rpms increase far more easily now. Basically, there's not much increase in the max whp of the engine, but the torque is more distributed throughout the whole RPM range. And the earlier engagement of the VTEC, of course is very very nice, there isn't that much of a "vtec kick in yo" effect like in the earlier B engines, the transition is very smooth and the car pulls strong without hesitation up to the limiter.
Here is a before/after dyno graph:
The graphs shows output on the wheels without any corrections. The dyno is also a very sensitive one. I have a graph with petrol/LPG comparison as well, if someone's interested
freddofrog
won 16.4k on Euro lottery :)
still the usual irrelevant nonsense littlebolittlebo said:
no-one on this forum is going to do anything like you say above, this forum is UK owners who might want a bit more out of their engine than stock.
the stock K2z has more power than the stock K24a. With your remap, a K24a just about makes it equal to a stock K24z. Brett has recently had his K24z remapped by Fahad (so be careful what you say). I know which car I would prefer and which remap too.
keep the dialogue relevant to customer's wants in the relevant country market, not blue-sky irrelevances ......a k24z remapped by Fahad is best option