There was no revised part ever fitted from factory on the Accord ICTDI as far as i'm aware. They will all suffer a cracked manifold at some point.. really this should have been a mass recall.
Exhaust fumes/smell in cabin I-CTDI
- Thread starter alnug
- Start date
Jon_G
No Longer Active
3 bolts on heatshield = 2 part welded manifold.
2 bolts = later single cast manifold.
mr2 super gt
Members
booked in on Friday for my inspection.
no oil pooling round the injectors but no drop in economy or exhaust blowout sound. Basically the car has had a 95% Honda service history so just because I'm the new owner and noticed the exhaust smell and decided to get it sorted, the problem was theoretically present at previous services at a Honda dealer so I will argue to the hilt that I don't expected to pay for the manifold swap. Time will tell if I succeed. This is unrelated but I was looking on Parkers and could see there was an EX and an Executive model listed. Anyone know what the difference is as they have different weights?
no oil pooling round the injectors but no drop in economy or exhaust blowout sound. Basically the car has had a 95% Honda service history so just because I'm the new owner and noticed the exhaust smell and decided to get it sorted, the problem was theoretically present at previous services at a Honda dealer so I will argue to the hilt that I don't expected to pay for the manifold swap. Time will tell if I succeed. This is unrelated but I was looking on Parkers and could see there was an EX and an Executive model listed. Anyone know what the difference is as they have different weights?
Same problem here with the dreaded cracked manifold!
Thinking of going down the DIY route, has anyone on here done this? I have read the odd case and feedback is it can take a long time and is a bit of a pig of a job, but at the same time relatively straightforward. If anyone has had any luck trying this themselves I would be interested to know.
Quote from honda dealer was £750!
Thinking of going down the DIY route, has anyone on here done this? I have read the odd case and feedback is it can take a long time and is a bit of a pig of a job, but at the same time relatively straightforward. If anyone has had any luck trying this themselves I would be interested to know.
Quote from honda dealer was £750!
Not a successful story for me. I started trying the DIY route myself but had to take it to Honda in the end as the manifold bolts were really seized and I wasn't able to get the bolts off the old one. Even in the Honda dealership they had trouble with the bolts and tried to charge me for the extra labour for that. Cheeky ******s, I wasn't haven't any of that! I guess if you have the right tools things could be different.
This is the thing I fear may be most difficult. still, i guess there's no harm in giving it a go
Hi Alnug, had my 04 reg executive estate 3 years,it had 108000 mls on the clock,it has been serviced yearly by honda dealer (Sidcup),now at 145000 they tell me the manifold is leaking,at a cost of £700! how long has honda known about this? and should Sidcup Honda have checked sooner??.I took the car to my local garage,he has an accord the same age,he said its defenitly leaking and its a ******* of a job,and would bite their hand of to get it replaced at £700 rather than spend all day getting his boys to do it !
Flash
mr2 super gt
Members
I'm still waiting to hear back from Honda. They wanted a copy of my service history. F6HAD you're correct this should have been a recall.
If no engines left the factory and this was a revised part that means the originals were a flawed design.
I work in warranty and we dealt with a recall on a particular part of a push bike frame which was discovered to no be up to the job after manufacture. We contacted every customer that had purchased the particular model and sent out a revised part to them all! Not just extend the warranty and expect them to contact us of their own accord (forgive the pun)
Also do the civic and CR-V manifolds all fit the accord?
If no engines left the factory and this was a revised part that means the originals were a flawed design.
I work in warranty and we dealt with a recall on a particular part of a push bike frame which was discovered to no be up to the job after manufacture. We contacted every customer that had purchased the particular model and sent out a revised part to them all! Not just extend the warranty and expect them to contact us of their own accord (forgive the pun)
Also do the civic and CR-V manifolds all fit the accord?
Not sure whether the Civic or CRV manifolds fit actually, but i do know they also suffer this problem. The Accord's exhibited it much sooner as they were first to have the ICTDI lump fitted.
Not sure if you guys are aware but I have an agreed rate of £200 for a complete repair from one of my friends and Premier Tuning affiliated garages in Bradford. They'll need the car for around 6-8 hours normally, but have done many for me now and know their way round this engine very well.
Job involves inspection, removal, re-weld, pressure test and refit.
Drop me an email on info@premiertuning.com if you need me to put you in touch with them.
Shab from the Admin team had his sorted by them recently in fact.
Not sure if you guys are aware but I have an agreed rate of £200 for a complete repair from one of my friends and Premier Tuning affiliated garages in Bradford. They'll need the car for around 6-8 hours normally, but have done many for me now and know their way round this engine very well.
Job involves inspection, removal, re-weld, pressure test and refit.
Drop me an email on info@premiertuning.com if you need me to put you in touch with them.
Shab from the Admin team had his sorted by them recently in fact.
I know of at least 8 Civic customers of mine that have needed this, and many more on Civinfo. Like I said, it was only discovered later on the Civic's as they had this engine from 2006.
I know of one CR-V customer, and also an FR-V.
I know of one CR-V customer, and also an FR-V.
mr2 super gt
Members
I'm in Northern Ireland so the offer is not suitable.
I am about to buy a 2005 CR-V cdti manifold and it only has 2 mounting points for the heat shield and is a cast unit. Is this different to the revised one that gets put on? Or could this car have had it replaced once upon a time?
I am about to buy a 2005 CR-V cdti manifold and it only has 2 mounting points for the heat shield and is a cast unit. Is this different to the revised one that gets put on? Or could this car have had it replaced once upon a time?
I wouldn't want to suggest the CR-V unit will fit, so it's a risk. It's a totally different car bear in mind.
Someone here was selling a brand new manifold kit, and there's some on ebay now who make replacement kits for this for around £200...
Someone here was selling a brand new manifold kit, and there's some on ebay now who make replacement kits for this for around £200...
I have a 2006 Accord Tourer. I started noticing fumes in the cabin last year. My local Honda dealer told me about the manifold problem last June but didn't mention the extended warranty. I was quoted the best part of a grand but couldn't afford to get it fixed so had to put up with the smell. In December I happened to look at this forum about another issue and saw the information about the cracked manifold bulletin. By then my car was one month beyond the extended warranty. I called Honda customer services but they refused to help as the dealer had not put anything in writing. Basically Honda customer services didn't believe me when I said it was a known issue before the warranty expired. I was gutted. If I'd been given the correct information in June I'd have been five months within the warranty.
I went through all my receipts. By chance I'd had some work done on a seized brake while on holiday in September. During the complimentary check the mechanic had noted the cracked manifold and this time it was in writing on the job sheet. Again, I hadn't been told about the extended warranty but at least I now had proof. With this Honda agreed to pay for the job.
You could say all's well that ends well, and Honda certainly tried to claim they were doing me a favour, but I've had to drive for months in a fumy under-performing car due to the incompetence of their dealers. I've found before that you only find out about Honda bulletins through luck. I think the company is rotten and will never buy another Honda much as like the car when it doesn't stink, the brakes don't stick and the VSA light is not glowing.
I went through all my receipts. By chance I'd had some work done on a seized brake while on holiday in September. During the complimentary check the mechanic had noted the cracked manifold and this time it was in writing on the job sheet. Again, I hadn't been told about the extended warranty but at least I now had proof. With this Honda agreed to pay for the job.
You could say all's well that ends well, and Honda certainly tried to claim they were doing me a favour, but I've had to drive for months in a fumy under-performing car due to the incompetence of their dealers. I've found before that you only find out about Honda bulletins through luck. I think the company is rotten and will never buy another Honda much as like the car when it doesn't stink, the brakes don't stick and the VSA light is not glowing.
Welcome to the Forum Jim. Sorry to hear about your troubles. However, I'd not recommend writing off the company on this experience. Many Honda garages are franchises or not necessarily directly linked to head offices.
My local Honda (Bexhill, East Sussex) are really good and have treated me very well over the years with freebies, warranty work and generally just helping me out and showing me how to DIY jobs too, without charging for my time. More like a family run indi garage.
So it's really down to what kind of a team and management structure they have in place.
My local Honda (Bexhill, East Sussex) are really good and have treated me very well over the years with freebies, warranty work and generally just helping me out and showing me how to DIY jobs too, without charging for my time. More like a family run indi garage.
So it's really down to what kind of a team and management structure they have in place.
Jon_G
No Longer Active
It seems odd that dealers wouldn't be more proactive in looking for problems they must know would be covered by an extended warranty... presumably these dealers would then be reimbursed by Honda UK and would therefore make a profit?
That's what I figured. The first time I took my car into Honda was for an electric window fault. Two days later they'd finished various work including replacing the tailgate motor (a £1000+ job) for free. Said, it's all covered under warranty and on the house. I was well chuffed!
Yep they definitely get paid for warranty work.
I think its down to individual dealerships and I have to agree with Steve on this, they're not all bad.
Honda are really no better or worse than most other Marques in terms of how they deal with warranty and recall work. It's a business afterall, and they need to minimise costs to their business to maintain a healthy profit.
The manifold warranty is an example of where the bean counters will have taken a decision based on costs for a mass recall vs extended warranty applicable to vehicles on a case by case basis. I'm sure the costs of brand damage through a mass recall for faulty engineering must have been considered as part of that exercise and decisions made accordingly.
Not saying I agree with the decision but this is an example of how brand values have shifted in the last few decades where companies are making purely paper based decisions.
I think its down to individual dealerships and I have to agree with Steve on this, they're not all bad.
Honda are really no better or worse than most other Marques in terms of how they deal with warranty and recall work. It's a business afterall, and they need to minimise costs to their business to maintain a healthy profit.
The manifold warranty is an example of where the bean counters will have taken a decision based on costs for a mass recall vs extended warranty applicable to vehicles on a case by case basis. I'm sure the costs of brand damage through a mass recall for faulty engineering must have been considered as part of that exercise and decisions made accordingly.
Not saying I agree with the decision but this is an example of how brand values have shifted in the last few decades where companies are making purely paper based decisions.
I had the manifold changed on my old Accord with a used part bought from Ebay.
My mate's garage did the job and had fun getting the bolts off, not because they were seized but just because of how tight they were from the factory.
Once the manifold was removed you couldn't even see the crack, it was just when it was tightened up to the engine as tight as it was that it allowed the crack to open up.
Not sure if that helps anyone but its food for thought.
My mate's garage did the job and had fun getting the bolts off, not because they were seized but just because of how tight they were from the factory.
Once the manifold was removed you couldn't even see the crack, it was just when it was tightened up to the engine as tight as it was that it allowed the crack to open up.
Not sure if that helps anyone but its food for thought.
That's actually very interesting - and could go some way to explaining why they're cracking. So the manifold is tightened to the point where the weakest link (the factory welds holding the two casts together) starts to crack and constant hot and cold expansion causing fatigue..
Bottom line - whether it's on too tight or the welds are weak, it's a manufacturing problem and should have been corrected through mass recall in my view.
Bottom line - whether it's on too tight or the welds are weak, it's a manufacturing problem and should have been corrected through mass recall in my view.
I thought would start with manifold problem but may not be the right topic. It could be considered comedy of errors in parts however may help someone.
Had exhaust fumes in car Accord Tourer 2.2cdti 2005 104000 miles for a while but difficult to pin down where from.
Just after Christmas had run tank low which prefer not to and had recent refill hard acceleration on a roundabout little hesitation and thought may be fuel /water.
Hard aceleration up to duel carriage way engine died at top and noticed glow light flashing thought at first might have over reved and engine control dropped to 2000 revs realised probably limp mode. Got to destination about 15 miles parked up stopped engine retried wondered if would clear didnot. Made phone call for alternative transport if I needed it later. Went shopping returned to car started up had cleared. Drove back not quite so hard driving tried high speed on flat no problems. At home tried to force error hard acceleartion up hill went to limp mode. No smoke at any time.
Decided to fix nown problem first. The car had manifold change under warranty early in life 30000 ? unsure when so figured should be OK. took of engine cover and manifold cover bolts engine cold moved cover started engione thought could feel gas left side of cover. Noticed also one of manifold bolts black on left. Surprised to see three bolts holding cover as cast has two ? Concluded manifold probably failed again. Bought pattern manifold on the basis Honda manifold failed twice. If any one decides to change one of these I found it a very dificult job to do suggest you buy two long sockets 12mm and 14mm full face contact and a shorter than normal extension. The bolts are very very tight I had a good quality double hex socket slip trying to undo.
Removed manifold inspected could see no cracks but the whole of the cover under neath was covered in soot.Check with mirror could be good idea if unsure of failure. I had to buy another joint from Honda (used all Honda joints and replaced nuts from Honda) I asked a mechanic for a second opinion on the manifold he couldnt see a crack but said changed loads of these and pointed to left side of manifold usually fail there. Changed manifold.
Most dificult job to do I found was fitting the oil pipes back on under the torbo took me couple of hours..
Ran engine no gas leaks was manifold.
Road tested went to limp mode hard acceleration up hill. I had bought a cheap OBD2 wifi reader so had a play could not connect to PC or Tab over a long period of time
removed and tried to start all dash lights flashing and relay clicking imediate thought cooked ECU. found company Derbyshire Diognostics to have a look. Very helpful thought I had cooked it. But was flat battery never had on car before all the starts and long time trying to conect.
Faults shown as P1237 turbo boost low and P2004 IMRC position and cleared them let me test went to limp mode and same faults.
I had broken off the small (now know filter) on solenoid valve bolting up manifold. Suggest remove this valve to safety if you change manifold. I had repaired araldite but unsure if OK so thought that could be problem, Bought replacement ebay 2nd user no change.
I had now bought cheap USB OBD2 reader ELM327 type and read and cleared faults. Bought cheap vacuum tester as common element seemed to be vacuum side. checked car vacuum pump and both solenoids (IMRC) turbo and pipes, thought IMRC solenoid suspect. Changed air filter, bought cheap 2nd user MAF £20 unit but not confident problem suspected Turbo or IMRC solenoid. Bought cheap 2nd user IMRC solenoid and vac tested seemed faulty.
Decided to recheck all vacuum side ....Ordered fuel filter but didnt think the problem.
My final Method. Remove vac pipe from IMRC valve connect vac pump and check valve opens on vac and holds vac passed.
connect vac pump using as a guage to upstream side of IMRC solenoid start engine tick over should pull 27 inches or so after a while . This checks all vac lines and vac pump. Did not.pull vacuum used hand pump to check diapragm of turbo boost and free valve movement and hold vacuum. Was fine.
At which point found I had crossed over the small vac lines when replaced after manifold change. Connected properly retested IMRC valve now seemed ok eg pull vac through solenoid should hold vac and start car drops after around 10 secs.
Road tested car fixed !
I thought it would fix IMRC position error but surprised Turbo unless had lost some gas pressure at Turbo through manifold. gas leak I think more likely testing the Turbo control a few times with hand vacuum pump could have freed it. Sorry it goes on a bit but may help someone.
Had exhaust fumes in car Accord Tourer 2.2cdti 2005 104000 miles for a while but difficult to pin down where from.
Just after Christmas had run tank low which prefer not to and had recent refill hard acceleration on a roundabout little hesitation and thought may be fuel /water.
Hard aceleration up to duel carriage way engine died at top and noticed glow light flashing thought at first might have over reved and engine control dropped to 2000 revs realised probably limp mode. Got to destination about 15 miles parked up stopped engine retried wondered if would clear didnot. Made phone call for alternative transport if I needed it later. Went shopping returned to car started up had cleared. Drove back not quite so hard driving tried high speed on flat no problems. At home tried to force error hard acceleartion up hill went to limp mode. No smoke at any time.
Decided to fix nown problem first. The car had manifold change under warranty early in life 30000 ? unsure when so figured should be OK. took of engine cover and manifold cover bolts engine cold moved cover started engione thought could feel gas left side of cover. Noticed also one of manifold bolts black on left. Surprised to see three bolts holding cover as cast has two ? Concluded manifold probably failed again. Bought pattern manifold on the basis Honda manifold failed twice. If any one decides to change one of these I found it a very dificult job to do suggest you buy two long sockets 12mm and 14mm full face contact and a shorter than normal extension. The bolts are very very tight I had a good quality double hex socket slip trying to undo.
Removed manifold inspected could see no cracks but the whole of the cover under neath was covered in soot.Check with mirror could be good idea if unsure of failure. I had to buy another joint from Honda (used all Honda joints and replaced nuts from Honda) I asked a mechanic for a second opinion on the manifold he couldnt see a crack but said changed loads of these and pointed to left side of manifold usually fail there. Changed manifold.
Most dificult job to do I found was fitting the oil pipes back on under the torbo took me couple of hours..
Ran engine no gas leaks was manifold.
Road tested went to limp mode hard acceleration up hill. I had bought a cheap OBD2 wifi reader so had a play could not connect to PC or Tab over a long period of time
removed and tried to start all dash lights flashing and relay clicking imediate thought cooked ECU. found company Derbyshire Diognostics to have a look. Very helpful thought I had cooked it. But was flat battery never had on car before all the starts and long time trying to conect.
Faults shown as P1237 turbo boost low and P2004 IMRC position and cleared them let me test went to limp mode and same faults.
I had broken off the small (now know filter) on solenoid valve bolting up manifold. Suggest remove this valve to safety if you change manifold. I had repaired araldite but unsure if OK so thought that could be problem, Bought replacement ebay 2nd user no change.
I had now bought cheap USB OBD2 reader ELM327 type and read and cleared faults. Bought cheap vacuum tester as common element seemed to be vacuum side. checked car vacuum pump and both solenoids (IMRC) turbo and pipes, thought IMRC solenoid suspect. Changed air filter, bought cheap 2nd user MAF £20 unit but not confident problem suspected Turbo or IMRC solenoid. Bought cheap 2nd user IMRC solenoid and vac tested seemed faulty.
Decided to recheck all vacuum side ....Ordered fuel filter but didnt think the problem.
My final Method. Remove vac pipe from IMRC valve connect vac pump and check valve opens on vac and holds vac passed.
connect vac pump using as a guage to upstream side of IMRC solenoid start engine tick over should pull 27 inches or so after a while . This checks all vac lines and vac pump. Did not.pull vacuum used hand pump to check diapragm of turbo boost and free valve movement and hold vacuum. Was fine.
At which point found I had crossed over the small vac lines when replaced after manifold change. Connected properly retested IMRC valve now seemed ok eg pull vac through solenoid should hold vac and start car drops after around 10 secs.
Road tested car fixed !
I thought it would fix IMRC position error but surprised Turbo unless had lost some gas pressure at Turbo through manifold. gas leak I think more likely testing the Turbo control a few times with hand vacuum pump could have freed it. Sorry it goes on a bit but may help someone.
Jon_G
No Longer Active
Sounds like quite an adventure, Roger! Well done for sorting it out, where did you get the pattern manifold and would you recommend it?
Hi Jon
It was a bit long so cut out some bits. The manifold was £170 on E bay so saving of £300 or so ruled out used item looks to me original Honda will fail expansion cooling problems. It was a good quality casting guaranteed for two years supplied three studs for Turbo rough. The problem with the two bolts under Turbo and hollow oil bolt replace problems I think consequence of pattern manifold but may not be. I had to slot Turbo support bracket so Turbo is different position. The manifold cover had to be modified to fit as well but yes would do same again. But prefer not to unpleasent job between rain showers car on improvised ramps cold etc. I would add for anyone contemplating each nut was a challenge both undoing and access for torque up.
The initial fault could still have been a fuel issue perhaps but not being able to fault read at that time cannot tell time may tell.
It was a bit long so cut out some bits. The manifold was £170 on E bay so saving of £300 or so ruled out used item looks to me original Honda will fail expansion cooling problems. It was a good quality casting guaranteed for two years supplied three studs for Turbo rough. The problem with the two bolts under Turbo and hollow oil bolt replace problems I think consequence of pattern manifold but may not be. I had to slot Turbo support bracket so Turbo is different position. The manifold cover had to be modified to fit as well but yes would do same again. But prefer not to unpleasent job between rain showers car on improvised ramps cold etc. I would add for anyone contemplating each nut was a challenge both undoing and access for torque up.
The initial fault could still have been a fuel issue perhaps but not being able to fault read at that time cannot tell time may tell.
Jon_G
No Longer Active
There was a recent suggestion that the welds may crack because of how tightly the manifold bolts were originally torqued up by Honda (but there must have been a reason for this tightness?). Some members have had their failed manifolds re-welded by a contact of Fahad's in Bradford.
edgeoftime
Members
Off subject but I had the water in the headlight syndrome, there was a recall on my car. Went to nearest dealer who agreed new units were required rather than the clips, however Honda decided that clips were the answer, so the dealer was over ruled by some one sitting behind a desk anonymous and unreachable, and uninformed.
Hi Jon Update. MOT passed emissions fine and no gas leak. But limp problem not resolved entirely. Long uphill motorway acceleration went into limp mode again glow plug light flash, No engine light this time reset one start . Code read now 1065 fuel rail pressure so initial thought of fuel may have been root cause. I was planning to change fuel filter and MAF sensor at the same time for convenience but fuel filter recieved was wrong type screw on so still waiting. I might just drain to check for water first for interest. I may try again to get wifi reader working so can monitor live data easier. regardsJon_G said:
Jon_G
No Longer Active
P1065 is normally due to a restricted fuel filter. Make sure you fit a Bosch filter ending in part number 442... other filters often give poor performance and/or a short life before these problems return.
edgeoftime
Members
get one from here save yourself a bomb.
http://www.mister-auto.co.uk/en/fuel-filter/bosch-0-450-906-442_g9_a0300!450!906!442.html
http://www.mister-auto.co.uk/en/fuel-filter/bosch-0-450-906-442_g9_a0300!450!906!442.html
I've read a few times the fuel filter can cause problems if it's not regularly changed. Can somebody tell me the recommended replacement mileage please? A stitch in time...Thanks for the link edgeoftime.
Got my manifold replaced now and I'm a happy teddy again. I thought my mpg might improve but it's a bit worse than before the problem was fixed which surprised me.
Got my manifold replaced now and I'm a happy teddy again. I thought my mpg might improve but it's a bit worse than before the problem was fixed which surprised me.