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P2004 - IMRC Intake Manifold Runner Control problems

Laney said:
Thanks both for suggestions. Did not get to read them until just now - having boght a pump from a breaker on Ebay. Said it came off a 63,000 car so I bought it. It arrived this morning and feels tighter to turthan mine. Spent about 45 minutes replacing it and guess what - still hasn't cured the problem. When the engine is cold, I get no hesitation or flalt spot at all but as soon as the temp gauge shows warm, the flat spot comes back. What I can't understand is if it's a fuel starvation problem, why the engine pulls like a train when you get past the flat spot. i also noticed when I got back from the roadtest and banging my head against the bonnet, that the engine was lumpy at idle and low revs. I disconnected the FSV - following advice on a previous thread - and the lumpy idle became smooth. I then drove it with this still disconnected and the flat spot and hesitation has gone and the excess smoke too. Obviously, the MIL is on and there is also less power past 3,500 rpm. The FSV is brand new as this is what the fault code showed last week so can anyone explain this ?
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Could just be that the FSV whilst new, is still faulty ?

How lumpy is the idle i.e very erratic and is it shown in the rev counter needle also maybe record some video and post it up so we can take a look.

Any signs of leakage from any of the injectors ?

Also have a read of this thread and some others of Ian's plight Sputnik comes back from the brink I don't particularly want to send you on a wild goose chase on this but it is more to point out whether there are similarities or not.
 
CJM said:
Could just be that the FSV whilst new, is still faulty ?

How lumpy is the idle i.e very erratic and is it shown in the rev counter needle also maybe record some video and post it up so we can take a look.

Any signs of leakage from any of the injectors ?

Also have a read of this thread and some others of Ian's plight Sputnik comes back from the brink I don't particularly want to send you on a wild goose chase on this but it is more to point out whether there are similarities or not.
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Thanks Carl.

when the dealer tested everything on Tuesday, no other codes came up and he said that the FSV appeared to be working fine. When the engine is hot, the swirl valve is being held fully open by the vacuum and the engine souns like it's running on 3 cylinders and still does so until above 1500 - 2000 revs. If I disconnect the FSV electrical connector when the engine is running, the swirl valve closes and the missing stops. Also the car drives without any hesitation or flat spot and no excessive smoke. Obviously, the MIL is on so I thought I would try reconnecting the electrical connector but removing the vacuum hose. I did this and the MIL is still on and the engine runs without the problem. Given that things seem to be pointing to this area, I reconnected the FSV electrical and vacuum hose and then disconnected the swirl valve position sensor electrical connection. Again, this closes the swirl valve, the missing stops and the engine drives as it should. It seems like various components are sending or getting the wrong signals from the ECU. I have expereinced a loose injector - after a main dealer did the timing chain, no 4 came loose whilst towing my caravan overtaking someone on the M5 last year - went into limp mode and glow plug light started flashing. Not a nice experience but at least I know about loose injectors ! I really appreciate everyone's suggestions and help - does anyone want to buy a nice accord tourer executive with 187,751 miles on it - excellent condition apart from a "minor" running fault !!
 
Can your honda dealer or local specialist hook up their diagnostic laptop whilst you drive it? Mine did this for me to diagnose my prob of air flow being well below specs, this would not show up whilst stationary in the workshop. might be worth a shot to see if anything shows up for you. my mechanic did not even charge me for this.
 
In past few months I've had a bit of a flutter for only a few seconds, brand new filter has just been fitted a couple of weeks back. Today it had more of a hesitation like a misfire on an old car, put my foot down a bit and it was fine.
Got into work and was reving freely, idle fine and all seems ok again?
Never had a code come up
Car is facelift 06 with stage 2 egr delete
I've had two filters fitted in the last year so that should be ok
Any idea what I should maybe check first or just take to dealer? Car is under warranty
 
Personally, i think that it is just a common fault on the facelift cars. Mine hardly ever does it now, but does occasionally do it and I have changed pretty much everything and had lots of diagnostic work done. I tend to find it happens more if its a cold or damp day. Fuel seems to make no difference as I have tried it on V-Power, Ultimate, ESSO and other fuels and it still occasionally does it.

Just get used to it and try and ignore it, that is what I would say.
 
I'd bet it's the filter on the IMRC valve mate. I've seen this with a couple of Civic's recently where the EGR Delete is closing the loop but if the diaphragm in the filter is weak it can't keep the IMRC shut all the time, and ocassionally gives the hiccup. Not sure what else it could be mate.
 
F6HAD said:
I'd bet it's the filter on the IMRC valve mate. I've seen this with a couple of Civic's recently where the EGR Delete is closing the loop but if the diaphragm in the filter is weak it can't keep the IMRC shut all the time, and ocassionally gives the hiccup. Not sure what else it could be mate.
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Hi guys,

latest in the saga of my accord - 2.2 2004 pre facelift 190,000 miles now - My local dealer told me that it was the FSV then the high pressure fuel pump. Changed both of these to no avail. They also did an ECU update - still no better. They have spoken with Honda UK technical and wanted some "live data" so they have had the car today. They now reckon it is build up of carbon on the back of the inlet valves which is restricting the flow of air when the engine is running at low speed - the flat spot/sticking occurs around 1800 to 2400 rpm - but over this it can pull the air past the "restriction" !! They said to remove the inlet manifold to look at the valves - they wanted to do it but not at their prices !! Anyone got any thoughts on this as a reason - apparently Honda have had this problem only once before ! The car does not do much short journey driving and I have a heavy right foot so I am not sure how likely this build up is.

Thanks
Martin.
 
Hi Martin,

I have mentioned this possible solution before but will explain it in more detail.
i had the same problem with hesitation and slugginess but at low revs, changed the IMRC solenoid to clear that fault code but even though the code cleared I had the same issues. My mechanic linked up his laptop whilst driving and it showed the EGR valvle not closing to the correct specs, low fuel pressure at fuel rail and also the air flow was restricted. We then removed the EGR valve and cleaned it and it was so carboned up it did not close properly, cleaned the inlet manifold (this was so clogged up, you couldn't push your finger through it!). After another test drive it seemed a lot better but the air flow was still restricted (according to the laptop), so we then removed the Air flow meter and sprayed contact cleaner through it to clean the sensor wire (hidden inside). The fluid came out black for several seconds during cleaning!!!
After another test drive the car was much, much better. More power and more responsive and the laptop showed, whilst driving, the air flow correct, EGR and IMRC in their correct positions and no problem with the fuel rail pressure. I can only presume that with the restricted air flow it affected the fuel/air mixture to the point the ECU was over compensating by reducing fuel pressure/flow.
Hope this may help................
i'm saving up for a stage 1 tune + EGR off to prevent this happening again!!!!
 
Right...I've got P2004 fault code issues and I have spent ages reading this topic and now my head is fried! I'd read one page and I'd think I knew what to do, but then I'd read the next one and then I'd get a bit more confused...and so on until i reached this brain ache stage. So, could any of you fine gents (if it's even possible) give me a straightforward run down of what i should be looking to clean/replace/fiddle with in order to sort the problem?

Here's my story so far...

Pretty much bang on a year ago I had the P2004 code show up when I was sat waiting at some traffic lights so i took it to my friendly mechanic who gave me the code and wiped it saying that it could just be a one off and see how it goes. Then last week it came on again while sat in a traffic jam on a friday lunchtime, was still there when i drove home, then on sunday it had cleared. Then on the tuesday it came on again whilst idling, and then went out again a few hours later (the car had been parked during that time). I got the mechanic to double check it was the same code, and hey presto it was. He had a quick look and none of the vacuum hoses seem to have a leak, and he looked at what i think was the swirl valve (could be wrong) and that was fairly clean.
My car has never had any performance remapping or anything like that, and it's an 07 plate on about 110k. Apart from the odd rare power stutter it has been smooth as anything, and to be honest i can't really notice much difference when the fault code light is on, but maybe i am just not that observant. Oh, and the car was fairly recently serviced with new filters etc.
Do you need any more info in order to point me in the right direction?

Cheers, and top work lads, ed
 
Easy: you could try first the filter of the on the IMRC valve. If it doesn't work you should replace the IMRC valve altogether.
Or forget all above and go for the best solution: a remap with EGR delete (stock, Stage 1 or Stage 2). Had the same problem that you have and instead of buying a new IMRC (that would be my second), I got a remap that solved the issue on the IMRC and still closes the EGR and prevents it to fill the air intake port with gunk. F6HAD is your man on this.
 
joooe said:
Easy: you could try first the filter of the on the IMRC valve. If it doesn't work you should replace the IMRC valve altogether.
Or forget all above and go for the best solution: a remap with EGR delete (stock, Stage 1 or Stage 2). Had the same problem that you have and instead of buying a new IMRC (that would be my second), I got a remap that solved the issue on the IMRC and still closes the EGR and prevents it to fill the air intake port with gunk. F6HAD is your man on this.
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When you say IMRC valve, do you mean the actual valve or the solenoid that controls the valve? I have heard that the solenoid was a common problem. Also, if the solenoid is faulty do you not still need to replace it even with the EGR delete remap?
ED; When my solenoid went bad and showed up with the same intermittent fault code/dashboard light, I did not notice any difference in driving performance either but that could be down to the fact it was terrible anyway!!!! Fahad will be able to advise you on the remap but you may have to sort out the issues you have first???
 
Yes, it's the solenoid.
Had exactly the same problem: no symptoms at all went the light was on.
The first time, I replaced the solenoid, which is quite expensive.
Then some few weeks ago, the light came on again.
This time, the remap did it all. The light went off without me touching the solenoid.
 
Whilst the last few examples described in this thread are pretty extreme examples (completely clogged inlet manifold and sticking egr valve)), this is exactly the reason we designed the EGR OFF mod. The fuelling is related to the air intake (which includes the EGR loop). When the inlet is blocked, it screws up the whole cycle.

I can't guarantee the EGR OFF will solve the IMRC issues every time, as explained before the mod is designed to run on healthy cars as a preventative measure rather than after the event. The mod is reliant on valves/solenoids responding to commands to stay closed. If a valve or solenoid is jammed or not operating, then the mod will not work.
 
Well done FAHAD!!! Great job. I can drive my honda around town without looking in the rearview mirror :lol: Thank You very much.
 
Hi,
My local garage just diagnosed (for free) a P2104 fault code which led me to this thread.

I've an 06 2.2 diesel accord with about 84K on the clock. The yellow warning light came on as I started a 450mile during a business trip to Warrington!. I have had the light come on before accompanied by serious jerking but then it went away and has never until now come back. I called two dealers local neither of who had a clue what I was on about - kudos to this forum!. So do I go for a remap or replace this dodgy solenoid valve part?!

Cheers
 
1050rat said:
Hi,
My local garage just diagnosed (for free) a P2104 fault code which led me to this thread.

I've an 06 2.2 diesel accord with about 84K on the clock. The yellow warning light came on as I started a 450mile during a business trip to Warrington!. I have had the light come on before accompanied by serious jerking but then it went away and has never until now come back. I called two dealers local neither of who had a clue what I was on about - kudos to this forum!. So do I go for a remap or replace this dodgy solenoid valve part?!

Cheers
Click to expand...
I think you mean P2004? That could be the IMRC/swirl valve needs cleaning, or it could be that its actuator (EVR) has developed a fault. I understand that on the face-lift models the actuators for the turbo and IMRC can be swapped over to see if the fault also transfers, thereby indicating a faulty actuator.

I cannot see how a remap would bring about a permanent cure for this problem.
 
We can close the IMRC maps as part of the EGR OFF, but I tend to agree with Jon - if curing this problem is the sole reason for a remap then you're better off just fixing the problem by replacing the part.
 
Hi Fahad. I really didn't realise that closing the IMRC was part of your remapping service, but don't you then lose the benefit of a functioning IMRC?
 
It's not part of it, but we can do it. And yes by closing it you lose the IMRC system.
 
Faddy, what is disadvantaged of losing the the IMRC system?
By the way, I can exclude the issue of turbo as the turbo can be either working or not working (making funny notice) is this the mechanic told me about, I'm open to correct, so, the map sensor is most suspicious way to check but after day and day driving, the jerking or lack of response issue seems not get worst in fact it ease away.....anyway, the remap ring good power to the car.. Thanks fahad..:)
 
You basically lose the swirl flap system..

Switching it off isn't really the answer, it's not an expensive part anyway and with the EGR OFF, its operating mode is reduced anyway. I recall I had an intermittent problem with P2004 on my Accord and with the EGR OFF, it never happened again.

On your car it could possibly be the map sensor mate, you need to take it out and give it a good clean with carb cleaner and see if it helps. Normally a failed MAP sensor will give you a specific error, but if it's not reading correctly but hasn't actually failed, it will give problems with boost readings.
 
Jon_G said:
I think you mean P2004? That could be the IMRC/swirl valve needs cleaning, or it could be that its actuator (EVR) has developed a fault. I understand that on the face-lift models the actuators for the turbo and IMRC can be swapped over to see if the fault also transfers, thereby indicating a faulty actuator.

I cannot see how a remap would bring about a permanent cure for this problem.
Click to expand...

Yeah sorry it was a P2004 code error message - copy of print out attached?

http://i44.tinypic.com/2s695bp.jpg

The code was cleared and so far hasn't come back and the car was running fine with it on the whole time not missing or anything BUT I have experienced severe jerkiness - like WTF - in the past but again it went away.

Having seen the black mess inside other member's engines who have opened up and cleaned various parts I think I'll try a can of BG244 with my next tank of fuel first. When filling up I pushed the boat out and went with BP Ultimate or summat like that not sure if that makes any difference whether in my mind or not the car felt a bit more responsive

Good to know the solenoid part is relatively cheap (did I hear someone mention this was the subject of a TSB?).

I hate all this emissions ***** just stripped it all off my motorbike which was damn near strangling it (secondary air system removed, foam filter fitted straight through exhausts and a race map sorts it some) !

Cheers
 
BG244 and high cetane fuels like BP Ultimate will make your car run better and be more responsive, but I doubt they'll cure an actual fault (particularly if the fault is the EVR actuator). If the P2004 comes back then either clean/free up the swirl valve or swap the actuator over to see if the fault condition changes... it would be better to fix the fault.
 
Hey guys. Been looking at this thread for the last few days as I'm having the old hesitation problem with my 2008 7th gen 2.2 sport GT. I've only had the car 4weeeks and I still have a warranty but u can't let things lie and need to
Look My self. I'm a mechanic so I'm handy with
The Tools, anyway. I went on a 35mile motorway journey today and was struggling to get 40mpg, anyway on the return journey I decided unplug the IMRC and hey presto with in less than 5 mins my mpg was up to 53mpg and had no hesitation. So looks like that could me my problem? Cheers
 
Rather than the valve itself, more likely you have a coked up inlet manifold Neil. The valve is controlling the swirl flaps which operate upto around 2k RPM normally..

The system is an extended part of the EGR loop, so I suspect the whole thing is coked up.
 
It's a pretty big job, but doable if you are a competent mechanic..

Alternatively if you are looking to go Stage 1 EGR OFF then this hesitation problem will go as we disable both EGR and IMRC loop
 
Hi everyone,
I'm having an intermittent problem with my pre-facelift Accord which sounds like it could be the IMRC but the absence of any fault codes isn't helping much.

The problem is a total lack of power below 2000 rpm when the engine is cold. Once the engine has warmed up, it drives relatively normally. Unfortunately it doesn't do it all the time, maybe one journey in 10. When driving it feels like the engine is struggling to breathe correctly, but as soon as the revs (slowly) get to around 2000 rpm, it takes off and pulls cleanly to the red line without any jerking or hesitation. Below 2000 rpm, there isn't any jerking or misfiring, the engine just loses all its responsiveness. Even when in neutral it takes a good few seconds to get it past the magic 2000 rpm.

I've managed to rule out the follwing:

- The car has done 115,000 miles and had a new Honda fuel filter only 4000 miles ago, fitted by the local Honda garage so I don't think it's this.

- The intake pipe was quite coked up so i've cleaned it out but it hasn't made any difference.

- The swirl flap/butterfly valve and ***ociated gubbins was pretty spotless with only a very fine film of soot. The butterfly valve moves freely within the ***embly.

- Likewise the EVR valve (I believe thats the valve which actuates the movement of the butterfly valve) moves freely.

- The EGR valve was remarkably clean with only a fine film of soot and none of that tar like stuff you tend to get after a while. Unfortunately I don't have the tools to check it with a 12V supply and see if the valve ***y moves correctly but when I removed it the valve was seated correctly which indicates to me at least it hasn't seized.

- I've checked the IMRC filter which looks clean. The pipework attached to it doesn't seem to have perished either.

- The turbo operates correctly. Even when the lack of power is evident, you can hear the turbo trying to spool up.

- I've had a look with an OBD reader and there are no fault codes showing. On the plus side, both the MAF and the MAP appear to be operating correctly (Or at least registering changes in air flow).

My first thoughts are to replace the IMRC solenoid as this is the cheapest and easiest thing to replace. If this doesn't work I'll have to source an EGR valve from somewhere. Does anyone have any other ideas?

Any help would be much appreciated.
 
Where are you located? Needs to go on a proper Honda diagnostic for component functional testing.
 
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